Best iOS utility for running multiple iOS sound apps

[dickiefunk]

Hi,

 

I"m looking at potentially using my iPad as a sound module for live work. This is a fairly new concept to me and I"m wondering what the best way to do this is?

For example, would it be possible to running three simultaneous sounds on one keyboard in different zones? Can I use different sample apps to run on more than one keyboard at the same time?

[Groove On]

I"ll just start the list:

 

AUM

Audiobus

Keystage

 

Which one is best? Depends on your workflow. One of the challenges in iOS is the many different ways the same apps can interact with each other.

 

For example, would it be possible to running three simultaneous sounds on one keyboard in different zones? Can I use different sample apps to run on more than one keyboard at the same time?

Keystage is designed with keyboardists in mind and can do the splits and layers like that.

[dickiefunk]

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes Keystage does look like a good option. Do any of these apps add latency?

[AnotherScott]

"m looking at potentially using my iPad as a sound module for live work...would it be possible to running three simultaneous sounds on one keyboard in different zones?

Yes... and depending on the board you're using as a controller and/or the apps you're using, you don't necessarily even need an iOS utility to do it. There are multi-timbral apps which themselves can give you three simultaneous sounds in different zones, or you can use different apps simlutaneously and set them to respond to different MIDI channels (in most cases), and use the zoning functions in your keyboard (if it has them) to transmit on different channels over different portions of the keyboard. Or, yes, you can use an app to manage that if you prefer (or if your controller does not have multi-zone MIDI functionality built in).

 

Can I use different sample apps to run on more than one keyboard at the same time?

I'm not sure I understand the question. But you can run as many apps as the RAM and processor of your iPad can comfortably support, and you can control them from as many keyboards as you'd like, e.g. if you use a MIDI merge box to combine their MIDI outputs.

 

I"ll just start the list:

 

AUM

Audiobus

Keystage

Camelot Pro

iMidiPatchbay

 

This may not be right, maybe someone else can confirm... but I think Camelot Pro can only route MIDI to apps that are AUv3 plug-ins, iMidiPatchbay does not route MIDI to AUv3 plug-ins, and Keystage (as of 2.0) can route MIDI to either category of app. New stuff typically supports AUv3, but there are also lots of useful older apps that don't. (And lots of apps work either way.) So if this is right, that's a significant advantage to Keystage, in terms of being compatible with the greatest number of other apps. iMidiPatchbay is probably the easiest to get going with, and still runs even on iOS9 (Camelot Pro requires iOS 11, Keyscape 2 requires iOS 13).

[cphollis]

Hi,

 

I"m looking at potentially using my iPad as a sound module for live work. This is a fairly new concept to me and I"m wondering what the best way to do this is?

For example, would it be possible to running three simultaneous sounds on one keyboard in different zones? Can I use different sample apps to run on more than one keyboard at the same time?

 

Follow me down the rabbit hole? I started down this path and am collecting the various bits needed to recreate my current live rig on an iPad, similar to what you're doing.

 

Things I've gotten so far:

-- TASCAM USB/audio/midi interface (not using the headphone mini jack)

-- Powered Lightning to USB adapter

-- Powered USB hub + various flavors of USB cables

-- Keyscape to interface with hardware instruments and controllers, remap MIDI, set list control, etc.

-- AUM to host audio apps and effects, mix in real-time

-- lots of velcro and duct tape to weld everything in place

 

Note that this is *before* we talk about any specific instruments. For example, the new SWAM horns are amazing, but take some work to map to your controllers.

 

Best of luck!

[Dr Mike Metlay]

We had a similar thread recently, not sure where (KC? Studio Workshop?), and the advice given there echoes what's being given here.

 

The list cphollis quoted above is accurate, but must seem like a nightmare to a newcomer. Let me explain a few things so you see why it's all needed and how it all works....

 

I am assuming your iPad is one with a Lightning port rather than USB-C? The devices for a USB-C unit change slightly, but not much.

 

So: you need to get audio in and out, and MIDI in and out, to and from a machine that has only one port for all of that AND power. You want it to run reliably and not run out of juice in the middle of a show, and the audio to be better than the headphone jack's (which TBH is actually quite usable in an emergency -- there's a surprisingly good D/A in there!).

 

The adapter that you want, that makes all this possible, is the Apple Lightning To USB3 Camera Adapter. Do not, not, NOT try to save a few dollars by buying ANY non-Apple clone, even from excellent companies like Belkin. You want real Apple in this case, because the adapter is "smart"... once in a while an iOS update will flash its firmware to keep it current and running smoothly. Any adapter that can't do this is a time bomb.. it WILL stop working at some point. Spend the $39. Sleep easy.

 

So: the adapter plugs into the Lightning port. On the other end are two ports. One is USB-A and the other is Lightning.

 

Plug your Lightning charging cable into the Lightning port on the adapter, and plug the other end into an AC power supply. The iPad will now stay charged as you work and you won't have to worry about it dying on you. Sleep easier.

 

Now, the key to iOS being so very slick for music use is that at the system level, it's running almost exactly the same Core Audio and Core MIDI protocols as macOS does. That means that any, and I mean ANY, class compliant USB interface (i.e. one that doesn't need its own drivers) will work perfectly when you plug it in.

 

If you have an interface that has audio and MIDI and your controller keyboard has a MIDI Out, then you're done: MIDI In, audio out, boom, finished.

 

One thing to be aware of: that wall wart to Lightning cable will charge the iPad, but it might not provide enough reliable juice to power an attached USB interface. Be careful before you buy a strictly bus powered box, and be sure you can return it if the iPad tells you it's pulling too much power. An interface with its own power supply will always be best.

 

The only bus-powered interface that isn't specifically advertised as being for iOS, and that I can personally vouch for because I own and use one, is the Alesis Control Hub, which has 5-pin MIDI In and MIDI Out, stereo audio outs, and a headphone jack. It has been discontinued and might be hard to find, though.

 

So: why a USB hub between the adapter and the rest of your gear? That's ONLY needed if you want to connect multiple devices to your iPad... say, two USB keyboard controllers AND an audio interface. Otherwise there's no need for one.

 

If you want to add more than one keyboard without a hub, get an interface that has a hub built in, like the Alesis AIR | Hub. Naturally this only works for USB controllers, as the Air | Hub only has USB in/out, no 5-pin. It may have been discontinued recently, as Sweetwater doesn't have them any more, but places like GC and B&H say they have them in stock. The above link is to B&H.

 

If you want a really, really streamlined live-audio solution, consider the Korg plugKEY. It's a one-stop shop: Lightning plug, stereo 1/4" audio outs plus headphone minijack with volume control, one 5-pin MIDI In (no USB which I find an annoying omission), and a nearly hidden side USB-Micro-B port to provide passthrough power to keep the iPad charged. Incredibly handy gizmo; still on the Korg site and GC and B&H say they have them in stock, but for some reason Sweetwater isn't carrying them any more.

 

I have had mixed results with pretty much every other "designed for iOS" interface out there. YMMV.

 

I hope that makes things a bit clearer!

 

mike

[AnotherScott]

a couple of possible clarifications...

 

So: you need to get audio in and out, and MIDI in and out, to and from a machine that has only one port for all of that AND power.

Not necessarily... If you're not using the iPad to process external audio (e.g. form your keyboards), you don't need audio in. (Which in fact you don't have on your Alesis Control Hub, for that matter.)

 

You may not even need a MIDI OUT (which is why you could even suggest the Korg PlugKey, which lacks one), though I prefer to have it, so that an app could change a patch on one of my hardware boards if I'd like.

[dickiefunk]

Thanks guys. I though I'd better clarify a few things :-

 

1/ I already have a Yamaha YC61 and will be most likely getting a Roland RD88. Both of these have built in audio interfaces.

2/ I have the Apple USB camera kit adapter

3/ My devices are an iPad Mini 4 and iPhone 6

 

The apps I will mostly be using are :-

 

1/ Ravenscroft 275

2/ IK B3X

3/ Sampletank

4/ Crudebytes Heavy Brass

5/ Crudebytes iSymphonic

6/ Neo-Soul Keys Studio

7/ AudioKit Synth One

8/ Mini Moog D

 

I will also be looking to use some drum machines purely for rehearsal purpose.

I've tried some brief tests using some apps from either my phone or ipad using the built in audio interface on the YC61 and this is work extremely well! However, I would sometimes like to be able to use more than one app at the same time to create different layers and splits etc. I think KeyStage looks like it could potentially be the best all round option for me? I've downloaded the free version to try it out and if it does what I need. Ideally I would like to be using more than one app at the same time and have the hardware controls on either the YC61 (and potentially RD88) to control the various parameters on these apps.

[AnotherScott]

I've tried some brief tests using some apps from either my phone or ipad using the built in audio interface on the YC61 and this is work extremely well! However, I would sometimes like to be able to use more than one app at the same time to create different layers and splits etc. I think KeyStage looks like it could potentially be the best all round option for me?

Keystage can certainly do it (as can others mentioned). Though if your needs were minimal enough, you don't need anything else, because the YC61 has built-in MIDI zoning. For example, you could load two of those apps, set them to respond to different MIDI channels, and use two of the YC61's MIDI zones (one for each app, set to its channel) to trigger each app over whatever range of keys you want. See the "Master Keyboard" section of the YC61 manual, pages 47-48. That said, Keystage will give you a whole lot more MIDI capability than what's built into the YC.

 

And yes, since the YC61 already has USB that supports MIDI and audio, and you have the Apple USB adapter, you're all set, hardware wise. No need for the additional hardware discussed above.

[Sam Mullins]

The apps I will mostly be using are :-

 

1/ Ravenscroft 275

2/ IK B3X

3/ Sampletank

4/ Crudebytes Heavy Brass

5/ Crudebytes iSymphonic

6/ Neo-Soul Keys Studio

7/ AudioKit Synth One

8/ Mini Moog D

 

.

 

I downloaded KeyStage last night and played with it briefly. I'm quite impressed with the advertised functionality (no opinion on stability yet obviously) and like the interface better than AUM (which is a narrower tool). One point: it appears that if you are using AUv3 apps, everything will come up automatically. If an app doesn't support AuV3, then you need to use MIDI internally and you have to start the app up manually. This would be the case with Sampletank (at least the version I have does not support AUv3.) That is a bit of an annoyance from my point of view but maybe unavoidable. Someone let me know if I'm mistaken.

[dickiefunk]

Thankyou for all the advice and info!

 

Though if your needs were minimal enough, you don't need anything else, because the YC61 has built-in MIDI zoning. For example, you could load two of those apps, set them to respond to different MIDI channels, and use two of the YC61's MIDI zones (one for each app, set to its channel) to trigger each app over whatever range of keys you want. .

 

I haven't tried KeyStage yet but am wondering if I could setup multiple patches using lots of different apps and then be able to recall these patches?

 

If an app doesn't support AuV3, then you need to use MIDI internally and you have to start the app up manually. This would be the case with Sampletank (at least the version I have does not support AUv3.) That is a bit of an annoyance from my point of view but maybe unavoidable. Someone let me know if I'm mistaken.

 

Thanks, that's very useful to know!

[miden]

.................... If an app doesn't support AuV3, then you need to use MIDI internally and you have to start the app up manually. This would be the case with Sampletank (at least the version I have does not support AUv3.) That is a bit of an annoyance from my point of view but maybe unavoidable. Someone let me know if I'm mistaken.

 

A question asked of IK many times over the past year or so....no definitive response from them apart from "taking the suggestions on board, and looking at it", which is a shame really because the Sampletank for iOS is a "killer" app in my view! having to have it running in the background outside of AUM, Camelot or even Keystage is a major pain, and in my workflow and gig setup, unusable.

[Sam Mullins]

.................... If an app doesn't support AuV3, then you need to use MIDI internally and you have to start the app up manually. This would be the case with Sampletank (at least the version I have does not support AUv3.) That is a bit of an annoyance from my point of view but maybe unavoidable. Someone let me know if I'm mistaken.

 

A question asked of IK many times over the past year or so....no definitive response from them apart from "taking the suggestions on board, and looking at it", which is a shame really because the Sampletank for iOS is a "killer" app in my view! having to have it running in the background outside of AUM, Camelot or even Keystage is a major pain, and in my workflow and gig setup, unusable.

 

And it's odd considering that Syntronik is supported on AUv3. But Korg has similar issues; Module was not AUv3 until recently and most of their apps still are not.

[drawback]

.................... If an app doesn't support AuV3, then you need to use MIDI internally and you have to start the app up manually. This would be the case with Sampletank (at least the version I have does not support AUv3.) That is a bit of an annoyance from my point of view but maybe unavoidable. Someone let me know if I'm mistaken.

 

A question asked of IK many times over the past year or so....no definitive response from them apart from "taking the suggestions on board, and looking at it", which is a shame really because the Sampletank for iOS is a "killer" app in my view! having to have it running in the background outside of AUM, Camelot or even Keystage is a major pain, and in my workflow and gig setup, unusable.

 

Though pretty much speculation, there was an interesting discussion about Korg and AUv3 here.

[Groove On]

I haven't tried KeyStage yet but am wondering if I could setup multiple patches using lots of different apps and then be able to recall these patches?

Yes, in Key Stage a column contains multiple patches. You can recall all patches by selecting the column ... or a single patch by just selecting that patch in the column.

[dickiefunk]

Great. KeyStage looks like the best option for my requirements.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

I hate to put a fly in the ointment, but I just got notice of this post on a very well-respected music hardware/software site. I have not used the software in question, but feel I should bring it to folks' attention and encourage discussion among those who are already using it... are these objections valid?

 

Bottom of this page, or it may already be pushed to the previous one -- sorry, no direct link to the posting

 

Comments? (I should note that the blogger's objections are more principle than technical; this really does seem like a dick move, but it probably won't affect usability and isn't a huge outlay in the long run....)

[drawback]

I hate to put a fly in the ointment, but I just got notice of this post on a very well-respected music hardware/software site. I have not used the software in question, but feel I should bring it to folks' attention and encourage discussion among those who are already using it... are these objections valid?

 

Bottom of this page, or it may already be pushed to the previous one -- sorry, no direct link to the posting

 

Comments? (I should note that the blogger's objections are more principle than technical; this really does seem like a dick move, but it probably won't affect usability and isn't a huge outlay in the long run....)

 

My comment would be it wasn't for me before, and it definitely isn't now. I downloaded the Lite edition just to try out the new features, and couldn't load an AU without an IAP? Deleted.

[miden]

I hate to put a fly in the ointment, but I just got notice of this post on a very well-respected music hardware/software site. I have not used the software in question, but feel I should bring it to folks' attention and encourage discussion among those who are already using it... are these objections valid?

 

Bottom of this page, or it may already be pushed to the previous one -- sorry, no direct link to the posting

 

Comments? (I should note that the blogger's objections are more principle than technical; this really does seem like a dick move, but it probably won't affect usability and isn't a huge outlay in the long run....)

 

Yes I can confirm that! I bought the full version...but it'll be about another $15+ before it's really useable fully...it's not much, more the principle...I may have missed it of course, but I did not read anywhere in researching that the "in-apps" were actually for what I beleive are "core" functions. Unless of course I have totally misunderstood exactly what the "in-apps" do?? They seem pretty self-explanatory, but who knows??

[AnotherScott]

What's unclear to me, for existing Keystage users, is whether doing the free upgrade to 2.0 actually removes some of the MIDI functionality it already had, forcing you to make an inapp purchase just to get the same functionality you had before the free upgrade. But as long as the upgrade doesn't take away any features it already had, I think it's okay for new functionality to be part of an IAP.

 

As for new purchasers, I think the important part is to be clear about what functionality is included in the stock app, and what you need to pay for. A better approach might have been to include limited versions of some of the new features at no additional charge. For example,instead of charging to able to load AUv3 plug-ins, maybe the stock version would only be able to load one or two such plug-ins, and the IAP would let you load more. That could also help address the problem that even the existing descriptions of what a particular IAP lets you do seem pretty confusing to me.

 

There seems to be a one-time "try them all for free" option, but that's problematic, because maybe you only need to try one of the add-on capabilities right now, and might find you need to try another one some time in the future, when something that you didn't previously care about becomes something you might find useful after all.

[Groove On]

In-app purchases are really annoying all-around, but I'd also point a finger at Apple, they share a large part of the blame for the idea. There's no really good way for developers to give previous customers an "upgrade price" to a new version, they just get the new version as a free update. So it's either charge for in-app purchases, or old customers have to buy the new app all over again at full price.

 

On the plus side for Key Stage 2:

1. Ali clearly states in his video tutorial which features are in-app purchases. So I don"t think he"s trying to get take advantage of anyone.

 

2. All in-app purchase are listed clearly in the app description (below). You just have to read through all the fine print to figure it out.

 

From the Apple store:

KEY STAGE 2 - LIST OF FEATURES (with initial purchase):

⢠Connect any number of MIDI controller to any number of MIDI instruments by creating tracks.

⢠Assign any region of your keyboard(s) to any connected instrument.

⢠Change velocity curve and velocity limits, and create velocity splits and layers.

⢠Transpose notes and restrict notes to any key using pitch shifter.

⢠Create instrument presets to easily change sounds of instruments by choosing patch names from patch lists.

⢠KeyStage can also import Cubase Patch Scripts to automatically create instrument presets for your MIDI instruments.

⢠KeyStage automatically detects new MIDI connections and recommends matching instrument presets from a database.

⢠Simulate auto-sustain on any connected instrument.

⢠Change or filter any MIDI signal using custom translators. Use 'Relative Control' switch to smoothly change the parameters of your instruments without any jumps.

⢠Use XY control unit to send control change and pitch bend messages to any connected MIDI instrument.

⢠Create setlists, quick access all the songs in a setlist from a setlist bar, move to previous/next songs from live console or using external MIDI.

⢠Create virtual MIDI inputs/outputs for KeyStage.

⢠Use virtual MIDI piano controller to play connected instruments.

⢠View PDF and JPG files. Link any page or region of any file to any section.

⢠Backup and restore your songs and global properties to Dropbox.

⢠Map special actions (like changing octaves, switching sections, changing pages of a PDF file) to notes and controllers using custom translators.

⢠Use MPE routing to control any MIDI instrument using MPE controllers like Seaboard. Use custom translators to change the functionalities of each MPE dimension.

⢠KeyStage supports smooth transitions between sections. Pressed notes will continue to sound when you switch sections.

 

 

Features that can be unlocked via in-app purchases

⢠Load AUv3 instruments, effects, and MIDI Processors.

⢠Create mixer units to combine audio signals, turning KeyStage into an audio mixer.

⢠With the player units, you can play wav, mp3, and m4a files, add marker points, automate actions (like play, stop, move to a marker etc.) using custom translators, or trigger certain events (like changing sections) when the player reaches a certain marker.

⢠Input units allows you to use the microphone input, or the hardware inputs of a connected audio interface.

⢠KeyStage has a multi-track recorder, which lets you record any number of tracks simultaneously.

⢠The Main Mixer view allows you to control volume levels and pans of all tracks, connect effect units, and connect units to mixer units.

⢠The transport controls allows you to play all instrument, effect, and MIDI processor audio units in sync with the built-in metronome. You can use global tempo and time signature, or assign different tempo and time signature to sections.

[Sam Mullins]

I agree that the way it is packaged is not optimal; to me the AUv3 thing should just be standard (even if that just means that part is included and the associated price bump is in the base price.) But I didn't feel deceived at all; the information is there. And the additional cost is negligible for me.

[Jwave]

I hate to put a fly in the ointment, but I just got notice of this post on a very well-respected music hardware/software site. I have not used the software in question, but feel I should bring it to folks' attention and encourage discussion among those who are already using it... are these objections valid?

Comments? (I should note that the blogger's objections are more principle than technical; this really does seem like a dick move, but it probably won't affect usability and isn't a huge outlay in the long run....)

As a Discchord reader and subscriber, I was disappointed in that response to KeyStage 2. Tim Webb is known for entertainingly OTT rants about developer misdeeds - usually the targets are deserving, but not in this case IMO. Also, he uncharacteristically missed the lede - what was essentially a MIDI processor (hence not useful to me) has changed into potentially the AUM/MainStage hybrid some of us have been wishing for. I happily paid USD$28.95 for KeyStage 2 with all IAPs to encourage what seems like a worthwhile and ambitious project for a solo developer. It's valid to question the pricing structure, but recouping costs via IAPs for major new functionality is common practice since Apple disallows charging for updates, and I greatly prefer it to the alternatives of changing to a new app (e.g. Cubasis 3) or subscription model.

[AnotherScott]

.................... If an app doesn't support AuV3, then you need to use MIDI internally and you have to start the app up manually. This would be the case with Sampletank (at least the version I have does not support AUv3.) That is a bit of an annoyance from my point of view but maybe unavoidable. Someone let me know if I'm mistaken.

 

A question asked of IK many times over the past year or so....no definitive response from them apart from "taking the suggestions on board, and looking at it", which is a shame really because the Sampletank for iOS is a "killer" app in my view! having to have it running in the background outside of AUM, Camelot or even Keystage is a major pain, and in my workflow and gig setup, unusable.

 

And it's odd considering that Syntronik is supported on AUv3.

Maybe the Sampletank programmers are completely different people than the Syntronik programmers. But the fact that Sampletank has not been updated in ~3 years doesn't bode well. Kind of surprising since I thought Sampletank was a pretty popular product.

[AnotherScott]

There seems to be a one-time "try them all for free" option, but that's problematic, because maybe you only need to try one of the add-on capabilities right now, and might find you need to try another one some time in the future, when something that you didn't previously care about becomes something you might find useful after all.

It turns out this isn't an issue, because you can invoke the "try them all for free" option as often as you want. (You can't save anything when in that mode, and it times out after 2 hours, but you can try things out if and as you need them, whenever that may be.)