Roland A500 or Alesis VI49?

[miden]

The Alesis is the VI series not the V series and as such has aftertouch. I can get one for $342 (Oz) or an ex-factory demo A500 for $400 (Oz)...

 

Any thoughts on either?

[AnotherScott]

I"ve never played that Alesis series, but I"ve been tempted by it. Low cost, lightweight with aftertouch, and I really like the banks of buttons you can assign Program Changes to. The Roland controllers I've looked at have always been awkward for patch change, which to me makes them better suited for studio than live use, unless you're going to use some other device for patch selection.

[miden]

Thanks Scott - yeah that was the way I was looking at it (the Alesis I mean) quite a lot of assignable buttons and knobs - great for live work.And I've read some nice reports on the keybed itself as well...

[Baldwin Funster]

The v49 has a bad rep for inconsistent velocity. I have one and it's ok for vb3 but I'm not sure I'd use it for alot else. And the action is very springy. Maybe the VL is a major improvement, idk.

[Biggles]

I had a A800 for a couple of weeks but returned it.

 

It was well built and the key feel worked for me, now here comes the But, on my laptop or iPad its Latency was pretty poor.

 

I tried it on my Wife"s iMac and getting it working was a nightmare, Reesekeys provided help that solved the connectivity issue but still there was to much Latency for me hence it was returned.

[Groove On]

I had a A800 for a couple of weeks but returned it ... on my laptop or iPad its Latency was pretty poor.

The A-88 MKII had a nice update, but yes, the other older Roland A-series MIDI controllers are looking really long in the tooth. Had similar problems with the A-49 (latency plus driver issues). Roland has updated their Synths, Stage and now the FP series, so I'm hoping they come back around and give some love to the older/shorter MIDI controllers. Maybe something will get announced in the next few months during one of the yearly shows/conventions.

 

But I wonder if both Roland and Yamaha have decided - that part of the market isn't worth it anymore. At least Roland updated the A-88 MKII - Yamaha doesn't even offer any sort of dedicated keyboard MIDI controller, it's all bundled with their synths.

[Reezekeys]

I'm on my second A800, been playing them for the last >8 years. When connected to a laptop or iPad, chances are latency is directly related to the buffer setting in whatever software you're running. I've never heard (until now!) of any latency issues with the controller itself. Actually, I've never heard of latency issues with any specific midi controller, ever â it's always an issue with whatever it's connected to. I'm suspecting pilot error here; I've been guilty myself. You have to dive into the A-controllers' menus to select their "advanced" driver vs class-compliant. The "advanced" driver requires a very specific setup (in a Mac, anyway) that I initially glossed over: manually creating five devices, labeling and wiring them up. In short, "RTFM" applies big time. Of course there's also the possibility of the driver software not playing nice with whatever computer/OS setup it's attached to.

 

There are definitely other issues with the A-Pros - for me it's the ridiculously small and hard to read LCD reminiscent of my DX7, and the fragile USB jack that doesn't stand up to road use (they may have addressed that, since my newer A800's jack grips the cable much better and everything's been OK so far). What's kept me using one is the weight (less than 10 lbs), and the keyboard â just the right amount of resistance with good spring, not "mushy" or wobbly feeling at all (like a few other controllers I tried), and a consistent response (no velocity "jumps" as you play with the same dynamics). IMO if you don't have that, a controller is worthless no matter how many other whiz-bang features are present.

 

My impression is that Yamaha and Roland have decided not to invest much in the smaller (non-piano-like) midi controller market (does Yamaha even make one?). That, or the A-Pros are meeting or exceeding Roland's sales projections so they feel no urgency to update them. Anyway, I'm generally happy with my current A-Pro, and before the pandemic it was banged around many airplane baggage holds, in an old SKB case meant for a Roland XP50, stuffed with extra foam, with no ill effects.

[AnotherScott]

What's kept me using one is the weight (less than 10 lbs), and the keyboard â just the right amount of resistance with good spring, not "mushy" or wobbly feeling at all (like a few other controllers I tried), and a consistent response (no velocity "jumps" as you play with the same dynamics). IMO if you don't have that, a controller is worthless no matter how many other whiz-bang features are present.

I haven't played these controllers, but yours is not the first praise I've seen of them. What I find really eyebrow raising is reading reports like this that indicate that Roland does indeed manufacture a lightweight, low-cost action with a nice feel and even aftertouch, yet use an action so many people hate on the Juno DS61, VR-09, and FA-06. I wonder how much more it would have added to the price to use the better action on these boards. Even if it added $300 (the bulk of the A800's $400 price), if the action is that much better, I wonder if people would have said it was worth it. Maybe less so on the DS where they probably really want to hit a price point, but on the supposed step-up FA and on the VR which arguably has no direct competiton near its price anyway.

[miden]

Thanks guys. All good stuff. Just to confirm though, this is the Alesis VI series, which are, I think, their "top of the line" units. I read no reports on the VI series having wobbly keys, but the point is taken on-board!

[Reezekeys]

What I find really eyebrow raising is reading reports like this that indicate that Roland does indeed manufacture a lightweight, low-cost action with a nice feel and even aftertouch, yet use an action so many people hate on the Juno DS61, VR-09, and FA-06. I wonder how much more it would have added to the price to use the better action on these boards. Even if it added $300 (the bulk of the A800's $400 price), if the action is that much better, I wonder if people would have said it was worth it. Maybe less so on the DS where they probably really want to hit a price point, but on the supposed step-up FA and on the VR which arguably has no direct competiton near its price anyway.

 

I can't say for sure but the action on my A800 feels the same as the controller I had before, the Edirol PCR-M80, a keyboard that goes back to 2004. I liked that one's action too. I do remember playing the FA-06 and unless I'm mis-remembering, the keyboard was very plastic-y and a little wobbly. It did feel kinda cheap. Bean-counters at work?

 

OTOH it's been shown that the A-Pro's paddles send a much coarser stream of pitch bend and mod info compared to their more expensive synths â there's a thread here somewhere. It hasn't bothered me though.

[miden]

Of course the other question is the 49 keys aspect? I am still a little unsure if that would be enough and should I perhaps look at 61 note lengths instead? It is planned to be a second tier board and for use with the DAW, but at just on a metre in length, the A800 might be a bit awkward to use on a tier and try to also fit the iPad somewhere.

[Reezekeys]

I just checkled out that Alesis VI61. Interesting... way more buttons & pads than my A800, but no sliders. That's a total deal-breaker for me â when playing a multitimbral setup on a gig, I can't imagine not having the ability to quickly set & adjust levels. Knobs work, but the visual feedback of a slider's position is much preferable, imo.

[miden]

I just checkled out that Alesis VI61. Interesting... way more buttons & pads than my A800, but no sliders. That's a total deal-breaker for me â when playing a multitimbral setup on a gig, I can't imagine not having the ability to quickly set & adjust levels. Knobs work, but the visual feedback of a slider's position is much preferable, imo.

 

Yes, good point...and one I had noticed but was sorta tending to overlook on the basis of price.

[drawback]

I just checkled out that Alesis VI61. Interesting... way more buttons & pads than my A800, but no sliders. That's a total deal-breaker for me â when playing a multitimbral setup on a gig, I can't imagine not having the ability to quickly set & adjust levels. Knobs work, but the visual feedback of a slider's position is much preferable, imo.

 

I hate to keep harping on this one point, but the other deal-breaker for me is the lack of an expression pedal input. Sure, you can get a MIDI-Expression unit, but I'd need both sustain and expression. IIRC, you have an iRig Blueboard, are you planning on using that?

[Reezekeys]

No expression pedal input? I didn't notice that. Lack of sliders and I was already out. Yes, another deal-breaker for me.

[AnotherScott]

I just checkled out that Alesis VI61. Interesting... way more buttons & pads than my A800, but no sliders. That's a total deal-breaker for me â when playing a multitimbral setup on a gig, I can't imagine not having the ability to quickly set & adjust levels. Knobs work, but the visual feedback of a slider's position is much preferable, imo.

The V161 might be able to fit something like a Nord NanoKontrol on the top right of the surface.

 

the other deal-breaker for me is the lack of an expression pedal input. Sure, you can get a MIDI-Expression unit, but I'd need both sustain and expression.

You could use the board's existing sustain jack, and just add the one for the expression pedal. And/or you can get a MIDI Expression unit that supports multiple definable pedals.

 

I know, adding all these things can become a bit of an octopus. (You'd need a USB hub to feed all this into its likely destination, too.) But velcro can help (essentially making some of these things "permanent" attachments), and what you end up with for the total price and the total travel weight can still be compelling. Especially with all those buttons you can program for patch changes (not just for its own sounds, but since each button can be independely assigned to different MIDI channels, you can even use these buttons to select the sound you want on some other board if it's part of a pair). Or you could program it so that some of the buttons change your sound to the right of a split point, while other buttons change your sound to the left. I've looked for small units that JUST gave you a bunch of easily placeable definable patch change buttons, it doesn't seem to exist. Point being, you can add the pedal and slider functions to the V161; you can't add the patch select buttons to the alternatives (many of which lack aftertouch as well).

 

If the action is okay, this would be among my top choices for a theoretical super portable iPad/VST-based rig. (Too bad there's no 73.)

 

And according to the Alesis web site, it's discontinued.

[johnchop]

Any reason the new M-Audio Oxygen Pro line is not in your list to consider?

 

If it's using the same action as the Code and CTRL I'd say it's a good bet.

 

May AUS availability or relative cost is the issue?

 

FWIW I liked the feel of the Alesis VI that I played, but found that drum pad placement too awkward for my tastes.

[miden]

I just checkled out that Alesis VI61. Interesting... way more buttons & pads than my A800, but no sliders. That's a total deal-breaker for me â when playing a multitimbral setup on a gig, I can't imagine not having the ability to quickly set & adjust levels. Knobs work, but the visual feedback of a slider's position is much preferable, imo.

 

I hate to keep harping on this one point, but the other deal-breaker for me is the lack of an expression pedal input. Sure, you can get a MIDI-Expression unit, but I'd need both sustain and expression. IIRC, you have an iRig Blueboard, are you planning on using that?

 

Although afaik, the input is TRS so you could use an expression pedal in that. Surely it can be assigned to 11?? - I must admit though not having both is a bit on the silly side.

[miden]

Any reason the new M-Audio Oxygen Pro line is not in your list to consider?

 

If it's using the same action as the Code and CTRL I'd say it's a good bet.

 

May AUS availability or relative cost is the issue?

 

FWIW I liked the feel of the Alesis VI that I played, but found that drum pad placement too awkward for my tastes.

 

Nah not cost, its M-Audio they have a bad rep!!

[miden]

If the action is okay, this would be among my top choices for a theoretical super portable iPad/VST-based rig. (Too bad there's no 73.)

 

And according to the Alesis web site, it's discontinued.

 

?? https://alesis.com/products/view2/vi49 seems to be pretty current...

[Reezekeys]

The V161 might be able to fit something like a Nord NanoKontrol on the top right of the surface.

 

You could use the board's existing sustain jack, and just add the one for the expression pedal. And/or you can get a MIDI Expression unit that supports multiple definable pedals.

 

I know, adding all these things can become a bit of an octopus. (You'd need a USB hub to feed all this into its likely destination, too.) But velcro can help (essentially making some of these things "permanent" attachments), and what you end up with for the total price and the total travel weight can still be compelling.

 

NanoKontrol, USB hub, extra cables, velcro, seriously? I can just imagine setting up all that stuff at every gig. Why not just buy a controller that has the features you need?

[miden]

Seems that the only controllers that have more than one pedal input (and still having aftertouch) are also double the price

 

Might have to compromise a bit methinks haha!

[drawback]

The V161 might be able to fit something like a Nord NanoKontrol on the top right of the surface.

 

You could use the board's existing sustain jack, and just add the one for the expression pedal. And/or you can get a MIDI Expression unit that supports multiple definable pedals.

 

I know, adding all these things can become a bit of an octopus. (You'd need a USB hub to feed all this into its likely destination, too.) But velcro can help (essentially making some of these things "permanent" attachments), and what you end up with for the total price and the total travel weight can still be compelling.

 

NanoKontrol, USB hub, extra cables, velcro, seriously? I can just imagine setting up all that stuff at every gig. Why not just buy a controller that has the features you need?

 

Not to mention MIDI Expression + cables for that.

 

Anyway, the A500 covers all the bases. And remember it not only has sliders, it has NINE of them and at least they're not positioned on the far right side. The Alesis has no redeeming factors at all (for me, lol).

[Reezekeys]

I just checkled out that Alesis VI61. Interesting... way more buttons & pads than my A800, but no sliders. That's a total deal-breaker for me â when playing a multitimbral setup on a gig, I can't imagine not having the ability to quickly set & adjust levels. Knobs work, but the visual feedback of a slider's position is much preferable, imo.

 

I hate to keep harping on this one point, but the other deal-breaker for me is the lack of an expression pedal input. Sure, you can get a MIDI-Expression unit, but I'd need both sustain and expression. IIRC, you have an iRig Blueboard, are you planning on using that?

 

Although afaik, the input is TRS so you could use an expression pedal in that. Surely it can be assigned to 11?? - I must admit though not having both is a bit on the silly side.

 

No it's TS, so no expression pedal (and I certainly couldn't sacrifice a sustain pedal jack to use an expression pedal). The pedal input can be assigned to other CC #s though. I agree, silly - 36 buttons, 12 knobs, 16 pads, no expression pedal input? Is this their premium controller line? And last question... have we put enough lipstick on this pig yet?

[AnotherScott]

And according to the Alesis web site, it's discontinued.

 

?? https://alesis.com/products/view2/vi49 seems to be pretty current...

Interesting, maybe it's just the 61... but my initial google search for it took me to this page, and note from the URL it is shown as a legacy product... https://alesis.com/products/legacy/vi61

 

NanoKontrol, USB hub, extra cables, velcro, seriously? I can just imagine setting up all that stuff at every gig.

What I meant about the velcro is that you leave it attached, so you do not have to set most of it up at every gig.

 

Why not just buy a controller that has the features you need?

Find one that has all those programmable patch select buttons. Let me know what you find!

 

Like I said, it's largely about what can be added to one board, vs. what can NOT be added to others.

 

Anyway, the A500 covers all the bases. And remember it not only has sliders, it has NINE of them and at least they're not positioned on the far right side. The Alesis has no redeeming factors at all (for me, lol).

How many buttons can you assign patch changes to?

[miden]

Thanks guys - I think I am starting to lean towards the Roland. In this price range anyway...if I splash out and push the budget up to around 6-700$ it does get a LOT more interesting! But not sure if I want to go that far haha!

[RABid]

I think it totally depends on need. I will say that I like the touch on the Roland better. My last two keyboards are the latest Komplete 25, and a KeyStep Pro with mini keys. I thought I really needed the Komplete keyboard to control my Komplete software but to be honest, I still tend to grab the mouse. On the other hand, the little Keystep Pro is a lot of fun and has a variety of uses, even with mini keys. Too bad you don't live close to me, I would permantely loan you one of my Rolands. I have a 25 and 61 key. They are both perfectly fine to me. Anyway, I've had a dozen controller keyboards and the only one that I did not like is a Novation. The keys had too much bounce when playing fast and the bounce was audible. The sound of the bounce kept throwing my timing off because it was at a different tempo.

[miden]

I think it totally depends on need. I will say that I like the touch on the Roland better. My last two keyboards are the latest Komplete 25, and a KeyStep Pro with mini keys. I thought I really needed the Komplete keyboard to control my Komplete software but to be honest, I still tend to grab the mouse. On the other hand, the little Keystep Pro is a lot of fun and has a variety of uses, even with mini keys. Too bad you don't live close to me, I would permantely loan you one of my Rolands. I have a 25 and 61 key. They are both perfectly fine to me. Anyway, I've had a dozen controller keyboards and the only one that I did not like is a Novation. The keys had too much bounce when playing fast and the bounce was audible. The sound of the bounce kept throwing my timing off because it was at a different tempo.

 

Cool, thanks good to get that from someone who has played them! - haha, if it wasn't for that little pond between us I might have taken you up on that loan

[Biggles]

Perhaps the question you should ask of the owners of multiple MIDI keyboards is .............. why they have or had so many MIDI keyboards?

 

Buy once but buy wisely even if it means upping the budget by quite a lot.

[RABid]

Perhaps the question you should ask of the owners of multiple MIDI keyboards is .............. why they have or had so many MIDI keyboards?

 

Buy once but buy wisely even if it means upping the budget by quite a lot.

 

Here goes, on a few of them...

 

Korg Kontrol 49 - Perhaps the best controller keyboard I have ever owned. Keys were great. Wheels were great. Digital readouts below the controls were next level. It was heavy, but it did not move when played. But support ended way too soon and Korg dropped the line. Too bad. I thought they had a winner.

 

Novation - As mentioned above this keyboard is almost unplayable to me. I never had a keyboard that bounced so much and made so much noise as the keys bounced. A nice selection of controllers does not make up for the playability.

 

Roland 61 key controller - Don't remember exactly which one. Great feel on the keys, second to the Korg Kontrol. I wanted 61 keys so I could play it like a real keyboard. But the long keyboard was hard to fit in some areas of the home studio, and harder to travel with.

 

Roland 25 key controller - Handy and portable. Lots of uses, but am glad I could move to a 61 key when necessary.

 

NI Kontrol 61 first edition - Keys were fine. Controls and interface were fine. The touch strips for pitch bend and modulation were awful. I hated playing that thing. This is one that I would not have bought if I had a chance to try it in a store. Unfortunately, I did not have that chance.

 

NI Kontrol 25 latest edition - Much better. Honest to goodness wheels for pitch and modulation. Fits in a suitcase. Usable when sitting in a recliner and connected to a laptop.

 

Keystep Pro - The mini-key entrant in the group. Lots of usages. Lot of interface options. 4 channel sequencer. I can connect it to the computer. My beat boxes, or modular. Really like this thing and it is my new travel keyboard.

 

 

Final Take: You don't need a controller, you need two. A 61 for when you want to play serious parts into your DAW, and a 25 when portable is king and you are building loops. If I was cutting back I would keep the Roland 61 for real playing, the Kontrol 25 for loop building, and the Keystep Pro for travel and connecting to a modular.