Scott's Big Rhodes Test #1 - Vox/SV1/PX5S

[AnotherScott]

If you're up for it... Here's a ~16 minute test of 14 different Rhodes sounds... in this case, from the Korg SV1, Vox Continental, and Casio PX5S, which are among my favorite EP boards.

 

1) the 14 EP sounds playing the Get Back solo

 

2) the same 14 in the same order, playing the Come Together solo -- in this case I exaggerated the dynamics so that, with most of the 8-beat sections, I started the RH more quietly and then got louder, to provide an idea of the sound transitioning through a crescendo

 

3) the same 14 in the same order, playing the intro on You Are the Sunshine of My Life, for something a little gentler

 

4) the same, playing a bit of the Taxi theme

 

5) the same, playing a bit of the Riders on the Storm Intro

 

These are all factory patches on the associated boards, either stock or ones the company provides for free download. All have had all effects (including reverb) disabled, but I did leave on whatever amp sim/drive and EQ was used in the patch. On the samples from the Vox Continental, I enabled the tube, and left it at about 2:00. The tube is ostensibly part of the appeal of the board, so it seemed unfair to evaluate the board without it. There's also a Dynamics control which can help compensate for its non-hammer action, but I did not use it.

 

Yes, there are multiple sounds from each board, with different presets. Sometimes some sound close to identical, but I thought they might sound the same on the loud stuff but not the quiet, for example. Though I suppose I could have managed to drop one or two without losing much. ;-)

 

The only post processing was some rough level balancing between clips.

 

All were played live rather than from a MIDI file, to more accurately capture how they sound being played from their own keys. There are also a whole bunch of clumsy takes (especially in the Doors tune). I didn't want to put much time into it, so I left the bad takes as long as they were complete and still worked to give you the basic sound. In my defense, these boards were stacked 3-high, so for example, playing the top board, high and arms extended, was not ideal for proper technique!

 

My suggestion, if you'd like to play... For each of the 5 song selections, prepare a 14-line list (because they will go by quickly!), and then fill in each line with a quick comment as you listen. (Ok, great, too this, too that, whatever.)

 

Here's the link:

 

[Docbop]

Andertons did at great comparison yesterday with Mike Patrick playing. They MIDI'd into all boards so the keybed didn't influence the decision.

 

[video:youtube]

[AnotherScott]

Andertons did at great comparison yesterday with Mike Patrick playing. They MIDI'd into all boards so the keybed didn't influence the decision.

I did see the first half of it. I didn't care for the comparison because the player, as good as he is, stayed almost entirely within a narrow medium-soft dynamic range, which gives you only a small window to how these would sound... and since I tend to be a rockier, more aggressive player, they didn't tell me much about how they would sound in my usage.

 

Also, while using MIDI (whether from a file or another keyboard) is useful to give you an idea of how it sounds, it is not as representative of how it would sound playing from its own action. If you're playing from (or the MIDI file was generated from) an action that is lighter or heavier than that in the board the sound comes from, you will tend to end up reaching the higher velocities (or the softer velocities) more often (or less often) than you likely would if playing on its own action, which will change the audible result. Though at least if you're actually playing the board while triggering the sound (as opposed to using a MIDI file), you can probably adjust your touch appropriately to get the sonic result you want, at least to some extent.

 

(Tangentially, but along these lines, I've seen a good number of posts about how Montage pianos don't play as well from the MODX8 as they do from the Montage 8, and no adjustment to velocity curve or playing technique will make it sound the same... theory being that the mapping of physical force to the velocity generating a particular sample is just too dissimilar. Possibly because one is a graded action and one is not, and maybe Yamaha did not program in a compensation for that.)

[AROIOS]

If you're up for it... Here's a ~16 minute test of 14 different Rhodes sounds... in this case, from the Korg SV1, Vox Continental, and Casio PX5S, which are among my favorite EP boards.

 

 

Thanks for putting this together. My favorite is 3.

 

5,6,7 and 12,13,14 are my least favorite ones.

 

With that said. A huge part of the perceived differences are simply a results of EQ curves.

[TommyRude]

For Get Back, I'm thinking it's the 3rd from the last (my counting is bad)

[AnotherScott]

My favorite is 3.

SV1

 

5,6,7 and 12,13,14 are my least favorite ones.

You picked exactly every Casio PX5S sample!

 

With that said. A huge part of the perceived differences are simply a results of EQ curves.

Yes, EQ makes a lot of difference, and this is also something that differentiates the boards.

 

On the Vox, there is no program or sound specific user-adjustable EQ (just a global EQ). There are some other Rhodes sounds in it that have different EQ from the four Vox samples I included here, but those other Rhodes sounds also have some other effect baked in (say, tremolo), which means you can't play the sound with that EQ without also having that effect. So while I think the Vox is a strong Rhodes, you have very limited ability to tweak it to taste.

 

The SV1 has better EQ facilities... each sound has available 3-band EQ, and the mid is sweepable via the editor.

 

The PX-5S goes that one better... the frequencies of all 3 bands are sweepable.

 

For Get Back, I'm thinking it's the 3rd from the last (my counting is bad)

That's one of the Casio PX5S patches.

[jejefunkyman]

At the beginning of your post, I was wandering which keyboards you used. Of course, I recognized the SV1 and Vox Conti EP, which are my favorites ð

 

I would have further questions:

- What is patch number 4? It"s an SV1 patch I guess, but which one? It doesn"t have the amp sim on right? Which velocity curve did you use?

- What is patch 8? Sounds like a Vox Conti patch.

- What is patch12? Sounds also like a SV1 patch.

[AnotherScott]

What is patch number 4? It"s an SV1 patch I guess, but which one? It doesn"t have the amp sim on right? Which velocity curve did you use?

Yes, it's an SV1. I don't have it set up at the moment, and I'd have to connect it to the editor to confirm which EP patch I put in which location. I don't remember whether I ever changed the velocity curve on the board.

 

- What is patch 8? Sounds like a Vox Conti patch.

Yes, Vox Tine EP #6.

 

What is patch12? Sounds also like a SV1 patch.

It's a Casio PX5S patch. Again, the board is currently not set up, so I can't tell you which, whether it's a stock sound or one of the ones I downloaded from the Casio forum. But yes, considering the love for the SV1, and how much lighter, cheaper, and more versatile the PX5S is, I think it's notable that the PX5S is arguably EP-competitive with the SV1.

[Doerfler]

typo, Scott?

[AnotherScott]

typo, Scott?

thanks, fixed!

[jejefunkyman]

However, on the Come Together part, Patch 12 sounds different to the SV1 (I only listened to the Get Back part before). I think the difference appears when one strikes less strongly on the keys. Then the SV1 sounds more realistic. And also there"s the key noise which I can"t hear in the PX5S patch. Same story on the Sunshine of my life part. So I was partly misled by the hard strike ð

 

I guess there might be other differences between the SV1 and the PX5S, notably the action? I can"t imagine they could manage to make an action which would feel as good as the RH3 in such light package.

 

And yeah, the SV1 looks much better than the PX5S ð

[AnotherScott]

And also there"s the key noise which I can"t hear in the PX5S patch.

It depends on the patch. Go to 15:38 which will bring you to the last three takes of Riders on the Storm. All three are Casio sounds, and on the first two of them, you'll actually hear too much key off noise. ;-) The PX-5S is the most editable of the three, so there's a lot you can alter to taste, if you're so inclined. Especially on the ones that are hexlayer sounds.

 

I guess there might be other differences between the SV1 and the PX5S, notably the action? I can"t imagine they could manage to make an action which would feel as good as the RH3 in such light package.

Yes, I'd say the SV1 has the better action, but the PX5S is not bad at all. The other big thing the SV1 gives you is all the dedicated front panel real time control over all the effects. Also some professional niceties like XLR balanced outputs and internal power supply.

[AROIOS]

My favorite is 3.

SV1

 

5,6,7 and 12,13,14 are my least favorite ones.

You picked exactly every Casio PX5S sample!

 

With that said. A huge part of the perceived differences are simply a results of EQ curves.

Yes, EQ makes a lot of difference, and this is also something that differentiates the boards.

 

On the Vox, there is no program or sound specific user-adjustable EQ (just a global EQ). There are some other Rhodes sounds in it that have different EQ from the four Vox samples I included here, but those other Rhodes sounds also have some other effect baked in (say, tremolo), which means you can't play the sound with that EQ without also having that effect. So while I think the Vox is a strong Rhodes, you have very limited ability to tweak it to taste.

 

The SV1 has better EQ facilities... each sound has available 3-band EQ, and the mid is sweepable via the editor.

 

The PX-5S goes that one better... the frequencies of all 3 bands are sweepable.

.

 

Excellent info, thanks for compiling/sharing them AnotherScott.

[Fleer]

Thanks, A/Scott!

[kenheeter]

Wow, this is interesting, I liked #2 and #9 the best, which no one else mentioned. Which are they? Goes to show you how we all hear things differently. Thanks so much for taking the tine ( sp - haha! ) to do this!

[AnotherScott]

I liked #2 and #9 the best, which no one else mentioned. Which are they?

Both of those are Vox.

[Fleer]

Vox rules!

[Doerfler]

Vox rules!

 

it's has Kronos sounds in a cool looking case

[llatham]

They all sound like electric piano to me.