performance and abuse...

[Dan South]

I don't see any stigma attached to being the only person at the party/bar/gig who's not drinking. That person actually has a title now: DESIGNATED DRIVER. Some percent of the party-going population is EXPECTED to behave in this manner. I've run the gamut from blind drunk to totally sober at parties. Totally sober is MUCH more fun, plus you can drive home safely, get someone else home safely, you don't have to run to the can every fifteen minutes, and as a bonus, you wake up in the morning without a gut full of vomit and a headache that feels like an ice pick through the forehead. Oh, and your DICK still works. Hangover remedies? Screw that! Avoid the problem all together. I'm not a teetotaler. I have very few personal "drinking rules" - I don't drink before sundown or before or during work, a gig, or a drive of any significant distance, and I never drink alone. I like wine and good beer (not Buttwiper-calibre beer) and enjoy them with dinner or on a social outing or a vacation. I've perfected the art of balancing alcohol with soft drinks at a party for that perfect buzz. But I've still gone to numerous parties - even parties that I hosted at MY house - totally sober, start to finish, and I've always had a good time. When I'm around pleasantly buzzed friends, I pick up a little bit of a "sympathetic buzz", i.e. I get a little loose and funny just by hanging with loose and funny people. But I retain all of my faculties in case I have to handle a situation (police at the door, bitching neighbors, etc.). There have been some good definitions of alcoholism presented here, but I'd like to mention another less serious, but still annoying, condition that can screw you up, namely succumbing to the social stigma that suggests that we drink when we socialize. Who came up with THAT rule, Herr Anheiser or Herr Busch? Sometimes I'm in the mood for Bass, and sometimes I'm in the mood for Poland Spring. Sometimes I want Merlot, other times I want O.J. Why should I drink ANYTHING other than what I WANT to drink at the moment? To do so would be ridiculous. What if you ate Chinese food for the last three nights, and you're tired of Chinese food. You go out with friends to a restaurant with a diverse menu. Your friends order egg roles and mu shu shrimp. You order lasagna. Would your friends say, "Whoa, you mean you're not eating CHINESE? What's wrong with you?" Would you say, "Oh, okay, I guess I'll have the Chinese, too." Or would you say, "No, I'm tired of Chinese. I'm going to have something different tonight." In this case, it seems silly to "go along with the crowd." Why would anyone feel pressured to do so when it comes to alcohol. I went to the SSS dinner and didn't drink a drop of alcohol. I had a BLAST! Take control of your life. Drink alcohol when you want to, not when you feel that you're SUPPOSED to. Isn't that what we try to teach kids to do? Are we setting the right example? [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Dan South ]

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by aeon: [b] Lee, I guess I don't feel bothered by “otherwise talented and intelligent musicians” because at the end of the day I don't compartmentalize people's behavior...a drunk is a drunk, musician or no. I don't feel hurt by my choice to not drink to intoxication, because being denied socialization with people who have no self-respect is not a loss. I don't choose to waste time or energy, emotional or otherwise, on people who cannot return the same in like kind in a relationship, musical or otherwise. I mean, why would I choose to compromise myself and then feel bad about it? [/b][/quote] See Chip's last post (which you seem to have understood). Just about all musicians drink and/or use drugs. Just about all are more interesting and play better when they don't, yet many of them do it all the time. And Chip is right: if you're a musician and you refuse to work with people who like to get drunk or high, there aren't many choices left. So usually, some kind of "compromise" is necessary (that is, you end up working with someone who at the very least enjoys getting drunk a lot more than you do) and that makes you unable to relate to them very well a good deal of the time. Mind you, like I said earlier, in my current band that finally isn't the case. It just SO HAPPENED that the musicians who are the most talented and musically compatible with me, are also exactly the same when it comes to substances - nobody smokes, nobody does any drugs, and nobody particularly likes to drink, we'll just have a couple of drinks once in a blue moon. But what in the world are the odds of THAT? I still expect Rod Serling to step in at any moment... --Lee

[D. Gauss]

[quote]Originally posted by Dan South: [b] other times I want O.J. [/b][/quote] that is surely the sign of an alcoholic. dan, i didn't know you had a crush on him... :) (careful, i've heard he can be quite the jealous type) -d. gauss [ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: d gauss ]

[G. Ratte]

said Chip: [quote] ...they pretty much accept me,save the occasional "come on man, drink!" which is a nuisance; ironically I've learned to negate all of that by simply having a beer in my hand the whole time - it doesn't matter that it's only one beer while at a party for 4 or more hours. [/quote] I read this one Sinatra book, which said Frank would go to a party with a whiskey-and-water in his hand at all times. Then he'd set it down somewhere and leave it, and then go get another one. So over the course of the night he'd actually finish maybe 2 entire drinks, but go through a dozen glasses. Idea was that if other people at the party thought he was as toasted and relaxed as them, they'd be more open w/him or whatever. He did the same thing with cigarettes. He'd smoke 'em like cigars, not inhaling. Pretty interesting idea, all for effect. --- As somebody just pointed out (sorry, can't scroll back) this is pretty senseless. Ideally these things don't matter. I'm straight-edge on my own and at parties and bars whatnot when offered whatever I say "Nah, thanks, I'm set" and if pressed say I'm just not much for alcohol and everybody goes "oh, that's cool". However, when out alone with girlfriends I shrug and have a drink or two, 'cuz I've learned from long experience that it's trouble soon if I don't. It's one of those annoying things you gotta do, like damn-well remembering the toilet-seat thing and not to talk about body fat. Sad & pathetic, but that's how life is sometimes. Rock on, yo. G. Ratte'

[Roto]

I for one cannot stand being around sloppy drunks. The best word I can think of for it is undignified. Here's a person that a metter of hours ago was someone you would enjoy being with and before you know it, they can't put together a sentence or walk down a hallway without running into the wall a half dozen times. Sometimes when I see people this way I wish I had a videocamera so I could show them how stupid they look because they never remember it that way.

[henrysb3]

From the book of lists: '"In Health" magazine asked a panel of experts to rank commonly used drugs by their potential for addiction. Two factors were used: how easily people became addicted and how difficult it is for most people to quit. A score of 100 represented a high potential for addiction, 1 a low potential. Because each individual reacts differently, based on physiology, psychology, and social pressures, the rankings reflect accictive potential only. 1. nicotine - 100 2. Ice, glass (meth smoked) - 98.53 3. Crack 97.66 4. Crystal (meth injected) 94.09 5. Valium - 85.68 6. Quaalude - 83.38 7. Seconal - 82.11 8. Alcohol - 81.85 9. Heroin - 81.80 10. Crank (oral meth) - 81.09 11. Cocaine - 73.13 12. Caffeine - 72.01 13. PCP - 55.69 14. Marijuana - 21.16 15. Ecstasy - 20.14 16. Psylocybine mushrooms - 17.13 17. LSD - 16.72 18. Mescaline - 16.72 Researched by John Hastings. Reprinted from IN HEALTH colpyright 1990. " I can verify that nicotine is an addiction, and one of the most destructive on earth. I quit many 23 years ago after numerous tries. I even quit nearly two years and went back to it, in conjunction with quite a few beers and blunts on a seventies evening. I found I could walk away for the other two without really looking back, but like I said, there seems to be no middle ground with tobacco. For an unlucky few, there also appears to be no moderation with booze. There is no partial use of nicotine for anyone that I know. You're either a regular user or you're not. It does not (with the exception of causing fires) do violence to people as much as speed and alcohol. Ask a cop if he or she would prefer to enter a room full of people who were under the influence of alcohol or speed compared with any of the others on the list. Being high can quickly become being out of control, but it's obviously worse with some substances. I've lost some fine and talented friends to alcohol, some because I couldn't handle their behavior and ceased contact, and one (that I know of) to vomit asphyxiation. I pray that it won't happen again, but I know somewhere right now it is. "He not busy being born Is busy dying." Dylan - mid sixties "I've been in trouble since I set my suitcase down." Dylan - 2001

[Learner]

Side effect? LSD- Little Wing(The ULTIMATE Experience, Hendrix) Hit Me Baby One More Time! :) [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Learner ]

[Deathtoallwhoopposeme]

I gig out 5 times a week...Wednesday, 3 hours solo acoustic, Thursday, 4 hours fronting my band( I sing 90%), Friday Happy hour, 3 hours then 3 hours with the band, and Sat 3 hours...Very Very challenging to say the least as I sing everything Eagles, Beatles, Billy Joel, Zep, AIC, Motown, Funk, Country...Literally every range of vocal....I'm lucky to be able to do it in the first place...I WOULD NOT be able to do it if I drank or was stoned while I play..hell I Sing so many hours a week...Hard....that I really have to take care of myself to be able to do it....I can't imagine partying and being able to cover my schedule...That said, I have NEVER NEVER NEVER played with or seen a musician who plays better and is sharper, when stoned or More then SLIGHTLY Buzzed....Period!!!! The guys in my band drink a few a night and a couple of them smoke a little...They are all TOP TOP players(Exept Drummer) and you can't tell, but if you are not top level you'll think you are playing great when you're really NOT...I have Fired many many slackers like that....I'm up there high off the music and the band locking in and they are oblivious....to each his own I guess but if you are stoned and drunk you are not going to hang playing in my band for sure....Incidentally, my drummer is in the process of being replaced now and he hasn't a clue...Too stoned all the time and slacking on his playing.....Oh well... [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: sventvkg ]

[Deathtoallwhoopposeme]

[quote]Originally posted by coaster: [b]by the time we setup the pa (no house pa) and our gear, soundcheck and maybe play a tune or two its 5 p.m. then we break from 5 to 9, go eat dinner etc. then play 9 to 1. that 4 hour break is nice. problem is is that i work in the day and gotta find someone to cover for me.[/b][/quote] Sounds like you guys have WAY too much gear for the places you play...Scale down your PA and Gear a bit...I have a 5 piece band..Power amps, speakers, low end, my Flextone II Guitar Rig, 4 guitars, we have drums, bass rig, eleborate keys rig...Etc etc....Take us under an hour to set up........Should not take you guys that long...if you have lights, hour and a half at most...If it's taking you as long as you say, you either need a soundman who knows how to set it up more efficiently or you guys are messing around.....no offense but time is money man!!! I'm getting paid to play..not screw around 666 hours of my day...The less time it take me the more cash i make....

[Steve LeBlanc]

[quote]That said, I have NEVER NEVER NEVER played with of seen a musician who plays better and is sharper, when stoned or More then SLIGHTLY Buzzed....Period!!!![/quote] Doesn't mean it's an absolute...I have certainly played very sharp and arguably better when stoned, the opposite has been true at times as well (not necessarily due to the weed, I don't always sleep well and am often tired when I gig) but I have the recorded proof a bit of weed has only helped my playing. I also play good sober...I really study everything I've recorded, I have a lot of trouble telling the difference between high and sober...the only difference I've ever noticed in the recordings has been more creativity when high...but that's just me...everyone's different. I'm often a sloppy player sober...I tend to tighten it up more when I've smoked a little...again I'm a pretty weird, abnormal kinda guy. I don't disagree with you guys though...I've also had to struggle with musicians who can't handle themselves, sometimes it's drink...sometimes it's smoke. Sometimes it's some chick that he thinks he's in love with that's totally messing with his head. Sometimes it's just an overinflated ego that will make a once great player turn into a boring one. A musician who truly respects himself, the music and fully commits himself to the creation of great music is less likely to have these kind of problems when he picks up his axe (sticks, horn, etc.) Just speaking of my own experience. About 65% of the music I have on the internet was made while either drinking 1-3 beers(I never drink more than that) and/or smoking really good weed. I have about 60 songs on the internet...a few you might be able to tell I was stoned, however, those might also have been the ones recorded at 5:30AM after recording a whole bunch of other stuff from 8PM-5:30AM. I also imagine you might be surprised at some of the tunes I recorded while sober when compared to the others. In ALL my experience, personally, I've found it makes little difference at all. [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Steve LeBlanc ]

[Learner]

[quote]Originally posted by sventvkg: [b]I have NEVER NEVER NEVER played with of seen a musician who plays better and is sharper, when stoned or More then SLIGHTLY Buzzed....Period!!!! [/b] [/quote] Yea, I can see where you are coming from and I must admit that I've had my fair share of f*ck ups live(which I ain't too proud to admit!). However OTOH, I think that there are benefits which can be ultilised if consume in moderation eg. drink to get tipsy but yet not drunk. [b] I'm often a sloppy player sober...I tend to tighten it up more when I've smoked a little...again I'm a pretty weird, abnormal kinda guy....I've ever noticed in the recordings has been more creativity when high...[/b] I can relate to that scenerio but I find it highly dependent to the amount of intake, again I think moderation/balance is the key. Or most importantly, your mood! I am not particularly good at coping with the pressure when waiting to get on and play my set, since there is NO mistake allowed! Unlike recording.... Otherwise, you'll be the laughing stock of the centry with all those people out there JUDGING you. Personally, I think it is very important that one must practice, parctice and practice to know your instrument WELL!!! It is cruitial that one must practice to a stage where he/she can just "flow" naturally to create the vibe, in order to capture the attention of the audience. I've often find that, with a little bit of help from chemicals. It re-directs my mind from eager to impress and allow me to express without goin out of place. Once you have a firm grasp of the atmosphere, your are able to flow freely if not intentionally. As a "musician", I think it is most desirable for one to be able to express/amplify their emotion thru their intrument. It'll take a lot of practice before one can "speak" with their instrument, which allows you to have a "conversation" in melody communication to others. Quote- Don't think! Feeeel.................