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[quote]Originally posted by Tom Capasso: [b]Sounds like a total break would be best. From the sound of it, that "run to AA" might not be a bad idea. [/b][/quote] hmm..I don't know...what coaster seems to be exhibiting doesn't seem so much like alcoholism, but rather a sensitivity to peer pressure. Beer is tempting - it's great stuff (in moderation), being tempted constantly calls for more self control rather than AA, IMO.. Peace, Harold
meh
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Coaster.... Let me ask you a question. How are things with the band? Really. Everything alright? Is it working out the way you'd like? I only ask because going only by your posts, it seems this is only a problem when you're around the band. I'm not thinking peer pressure here, I'm thinking more along the lines of some sort of unresolved issue. Seriously, it could even be something that you're not consciously aware of. This type of thing has happened to me on more than one occasion. So... whaddya think? Steve
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i like playing in this band. i AM the odd one out, cuz when we play i am the only white guy around, period. i dont think thats an issue anymore though, i feel very comfortable around the folks. it WAS an issue, and still is for people i have not met yet, but once they find out i am "okay" they can easily see past skin color. theres just so much of a rift in this area that it is a self-fullfilling prophecy when it comes to racism. i can see it in peoples eyes, hispanic or white. there is a fear in each persons eyes at first. i find that when i see a hispanic person when i am not with the band that if i dont look away, if i give them eye contact and nod my head - basically acknowledging their existance, that they will smile and nod back. most people almost pretend that they dont see them and look away. i hate saying "them" because i DONT feel separated from the hispanic community at all, i feel like i am a part of it. so "I" am "them", see my problem? i hate drawing lines like that. i also hate that when we come into contact with white folks at an establishment they scan everybody and come talk to ME. i am NOT in charge! i dont do booking, or money, or anything like that. i play keys and set the FOH up. i have to tell the people to talk to the bass player, as that is what he does. they give me an attitude without words that says "but cant i just talk to [i]you?[/i]" its the whole musical connection thing, you know? because we communicate with music beyond words. a lot of bands get this connection. the 'family' thing that some bands get into. i am gonna cut down on beer from now on. no more beer before 11:30 at shows. i'll drink coke instead. i CAN drink too much when i am not with the band, but i generally dont. i am usually at home too then, so no driving. i think its the "high" involved with music that allows me to want to drink so much. i love music. i love cars too, but they dont make me want beer. in fact i [i]can't[/i] drink beer and work on cars. i cut my fingers and break things LOL. i have even done experiments with mixing while drinking. sometimes at the end of a night i'll have a beer or two or 6 and feel like working on one of the tunes i have (other folks's mostly). i'll make a backup copy of the tune in case i botch it or hate it the next day, and just feel free to drink beer and make changes. pretty soon i know i have had enough and quit. the next day i think "oh my god, how bad did i mess that mix up last night"and to my suprise, i almost always like that mix better and [i]keep it that way[/i] strange. i 'preciate everyones concern about this.
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DUI, it's a very serious thing, a few years ago a very good friend of mine Alison Joy Gooch ('66-'96), was run down by a DUI. Alison had been enjoying a friend's band at a pub only one block from her home in Newtown, Sydney. Whilst walking home with a friend just yards from the venue a car came down the road and missed the slight bend. He hit Alison from behind, she died instantly. Alison was only 30 at the time and she was one of the most amazingly joyous, loving & generous people I have ever known. I understand that the man responsible was not even that drunk at the time. It took along time for all of us to get over this. At first we felt a lot of anger, but after the initial shock, we all felt very sorry for him, the driver, he has to live the rest of his life with this, I think he was in his 20's ... There has been a lot of good advice here but many have said, a DUI charge is no good for a musician, well, IMHO, it's simply not worth risking other peoples lives for the sake of a few cheap laughs, if you want to risk your own life, that's fine, but I would rather you take up skydiving or the like... Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a drink when I'm in social situations but for me it affects my playing/ears way too much for me to drink on stage, I have my first beer after I have finished work. Record yourself on a walkman playing the gig and listen back to it, both sober & drunk (get a taxi). I'm sure it will be "interesting". peace, natty [img]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/fk/butterfly.gif[/img] [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: natty fred ]
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[quote]Originally posted by gratte: [b]My social life is swell and all, but I've lost 3 girlfriends due in large part to this kinda thing. "You've got to be my drinking buddy!" "I'll feel like an alcoholic if I'm drinking and you're not!" [/b][/quote] Man, been there and done that about 4,999 times. Really, the bottom line to Modern Society is "does your drinking habits match your partners?". Which is utterly ironic considering because I'm a musician I find myself in bars probably as much as the "average person" anyhow, so I'm always having to socialize with usually massive drinkers. The big thing I don't get is vomiting. I utterly HATE vomiting. Being nauseous is possibly the worst thing ever, and it's bewildering that people can rountinely go through that and still call the night "fun". There's people I know now who do this thing where they *intentionally* vomit so they'll be able to drink even more and stay drunk longer... ...Things seem just utterly surreal to me, and I would think "life" being drunk every night would be surreal as well, in a disorienting way - why that's "fun" I completely don't understand. But I don't like asparagus, either. The E thing is crazy as well. I *think* I can almost figure out if one is a raver based on how they speak now, there's a sort of ... dead tonality in their voice. I've watched people go from being bright and enthusiastic to being really sort of dead and .... detached. It's like they're looking at things but their facial muscles don't move like normal... Like there's extra effort required to have an expression. I think I've lost a few students because of it, they get into it and they get duller and duller... It's funny, another thing I can tell is when a kid gets into pot. I've had a number of students that are "typical middle class suburban kids" and then one day they come in and there's a new drawl in their voice... "So, what'd you do this weekend Adam?" "Oh ma....n... I went CAMPinnn', man, up in tha mOWtins..." Yeah, uh huh, I know what you did.... Speech cadence slows a bit, pitch evens out and drops maybe a quarter step... "dude" creeps into the speech patterns a bit more... Hilarious... What's really funny is with a habitual stoner, the Tommy Chong laugh is always a give away...."dude, huhuhuhuhuhh". No one laughs like that who isn't a habitual stoner.

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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My dad used to say "You know, I like a Black Jack now and then but for the harm I've seen it do on others I wish it had never been invented." It's ironic that the two most destructive drugs on earth - tobacco and alcohol - are not only legal, but government supported in one way or another. One of the guys I play with is a stealth drinker (vodka) who hides it until he picks up his guitar and can't play or remember lyrics. I played with him for two or three years and didn't know he even drank. Then one night another guy showed up in his body. He couldn't even remember the bass player's name. I didn't know it was booze - I thought he had gotten into some kind of hard drugs. Since then it's been a roller coaster (no pun intended, coaster). One night he didn't show up for practice, but we had changed locations for the night because the drummer was gone and we decided to go acoustic and work on songwriting at another house. We messed around a while and then blew it off when he never appeared. The next morning, his wife called me wanting to know if I knew where he was. We found out later he was in a neighboring county jail on DUI. He dried out for a long while after that and wrote some great songs. But it started up again a year and a half ago. We've told him that another DUI will put him away for a long time, but he thinks he's in control. It happened again this week at practice and we plan to confront him next week. This will be hard in many ways, as for one thing he's the de facto leader. Alcoholics are like diabetics or those with allergies. Booze just hits them in a different way than the general population. And there are different "styles" of drinking. Our bandmate is a binge drinker. He doesn't stop till he passes out. In the late sixties, I drank a lot of beer and drove way out of control. Then in '68 I got turned on to reefer and had no use for something that made you stumble, puke and drop your guitar. Now my day job depends on my driver's license, so I'm a pretty dull drinking partner. I like a little wine or beer now and then and would love to raise a glass with my friends and bandmates, but for one at least I must forego. "You know you're getting old when it takes longer to recover than it did to do the damage." - unk. interview Namaste Henry

He not busy being born

Is busy dyin'.

 

...Bob Dylan

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Something I heard here set off an alarm bell. It doesn't matter how often you hit the booze, once a month, once a year. It's the not wanting to stop after you start. I'm not kidding; nothing in this post is in jest. Simple test for you. One beer. That's it for the night. Not just once, do it several times, on different occasions. You'll know. I just had to pipe up because someone mentioned something about moderation, which is normally good advice, but not after a person's system has crossed a particular kind of line. This not wanting to stop thing is one of those lines. After that line is crossed, one is too many. No one can tell you what you have or what you are when it comes to this sort thing, not in a way that's meaningful, anyway. This is the kind of thing that a person has to really see for themselves -- that is, if it's gotten to the point where it's worrying them or interfering with their life. Best to you.
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Empty Planet...re: The not wanting to stop after you start thing...I know someone extreeeeeeemely well who falls into this category. I've been telling this person for over 20 years that she had a problem with it, but what the fuck do I know, y'know. Finally, last summer, she got a DUI. Actually, it was probably the best thing that could have happened. I wish it had happened 20 years ago.
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]...music is the best excuse in the world to hang out. There's nothing cooler than hanging with bandmates or friends with similar musical tastes and passions, and jamming together, or listening to tunes. Playing, listening to and talking about music seems to naturally lead to talking about personal things and opening up to each other in a way that's truly fulfilling. [/b][/quote] Lee, Well said...well said indeed! Your "band dynamics" thread has a bunch of great insights into that subject,but this little quote here should be on it too. List it under the heading "and the reason there [i]is[/i] such a thing as band dynamics is..." BTW thanks for your input on the "women on madonna" thread. Coaster, Back to the subject. There was an insightful post about the band dynamic contributing to the drinking thing(sorry don't remember whose it was). I've been the only anglo in an otherwise Hispanic band and there is an extra element to the internal pressure to fit in,though you should have been around long enough to be past that by now. Could just be a knee-jerk response. Regardless,some of the stuff you've told us is still red flag material. If you want a good reason why you don't need to mix booze with your music,print out Lee's quote up there.......you won't find a better one. later, Mike
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not to take away from the subject, but i gotta agree with khan on the 1pm load-in stuff. that would drive anyone to drink! if we play at 10, we get there at a little after 9, set up the p.a. and stuff, then play. as for the drinking stuff... for me gigging there's usually some decent middle ground to be had between the pogues/replacements school of excess and the fugazi/zappa/nugent straight edge nothing-at-all camp. i've visited both places, and can't say i'm totally comfortable in either. (btw, i too, HATE to throw up) not remembering your drive home is surely not a good place for you to be. i'm fairly lucky in that i am usually driven to and from gigs, so if i am ever messed up at the end of the night, i'm not likely to be endangering anyone else. on gigs that i do have to drive to/fro, i drink much less. but if i had to show up at a club at 1 o'clock in the afternoon to setup and not play until 9...go all night then go do a dayjob... i think i'd be shooting up crystal meth and crack rather than beer. :) just be careful you aren't writng you own "behind the music"... cheers, -d. gauss
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[quote]Originally posted by Dan South: [b]Coaster, Water is your friend.[/b][/quote] Or to put it another way: dilution is the solution to pollution. I hosted an electric open mic for about five years. Try being in a bar for 6 hours, only playing a few mini-sets here and there, and not get drunk (if of course you generally like drinking and a touch of drunkenness). I like to be a little drunk, but I detest hangovers. Over the years I developed the two pints a water for every pint of beer formula, and it's a winner.
Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp
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I had to change how I thought about what I was doing. If you are getting paid, then it's really a job, and you wouldn't drink on your day job would you? So the rule is this: Drink at parties. Do the job and get paid first, then party. Sly :cool: PS I changed my thinking a few years ago, after I got home from about a ten day road trip with a burning johnson, without all my money. The question was what was I going out there for?
Whasineva ehaiz, ehissgot ta be Funky!
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Hi... As a straight-edge person (no smoking, no drinking, no drugs), I play in two bands with people who enjoy varying amounts of various substances both legal and not. Personally, I find it difficult to understand the appeal of getting blasted: you get sloppy, you act stupidly, you don't remember what you did, you're broke and you are very easy to abuse in that state. No to mention YOU CAN DIE! Doesn't sound like a good time to me. I can't really see anything positive that comes from the use/abuse of any drug (caffiene, nicotine, etc). They're just ways to escape. They're a crutch. I try really hard not to judge people who like to use these substances, but I can't help but wonder WHY they want to get so far from their real selves? Is reality so bad? Is being drunk/high really so much fun? I seriously doubt it. When we tour, the drinkers/smokers/drug users I play with need the most rest, get tired the quickest and are ones with the least money when we come home. They make fun of me because I never want the free beers bartenders offer me, and I decline the offers of weed that come my way so often (having dreadlocks past my butt sometimes has some drawbacks.) Funny enough, I'm the one who knows what town we're in when we tour, and I'm also the one who can argue intelligently with club owners when they're trying to screw us out of our gig money. I also don't wake in the a.m. with a fuzzy head and a hacking cough. As loathe as I am to quote anything a Reagan has uttered, it's pretty frickin' easy to "Just say NO" when offered more than you can handle. Drugs/drinking have ruined more musicians than most of us can count. Why be a statistic?

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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With all respect for your lifestyle decisions, and acknowledging that drugs have destroyed many, let me offer the opinion that under approrpriate circumstances, moderate use is not so much an "escape from real self" as it is a sneak peak at alternate selves. I don't want to overstate the "psychic journey" theme 'cause it's mostly nonsense, but psychoactive drugs can bring to the surface things that lurk in the uncosncious (or wherever you locate the "freungian" dark matter) and so in a sense *can* be a means of getting to know your real, multifaceted self better. The law of diminsihing returns applies, of course. One bong a week hit might clear some things for you. More bong hits do not multiply the benefit and can turn you into a softball head. A little drink is an emotional lubricant. Many of you non-drinkers have observed that it makes people into sappy or violent messes--when they go too far with it. Yes, it's ugly, but for many people the "drunk effect" is simply a license to feel what is routinely repressed--love or anger. It ain't a perfect or long-term solution, but genuine catharsis is possible. The regret that follows a particularly effusive night of drunken confession does not occur because the gut-spilling was unreal or artifical--it occurs because the gut-spilling was socially inappropriate. It's real. There's just no place for it except bars and therapy. I am a very moderate abuser of cannabis and alcohol--I like it but can utterly live without it. I am, however, a deeply troubled nicotine junkie--a life-long war that I've decided I must win. Occasional intoxication can be a lovely thing. Addiction is a nightmare. [quote]Originally posted by CMDN: [b]Hi... As a straight-edge person (no smoking, no drinking, no drugs), I play in two bands with people who enjoy varying amounts of various substances both legal and not. Personally, I find it difficult to understand the appeal of getting blasted: you get sloppy, you act stupidly, you don't remember what you did, you're broke and you are very easy to abuse in that state. No to mention YOU CAN DIE! Doesn't sound like a good time to me. I can't really see anything positive that comes from the use/abuse of any drug (caffiene, nicotine, etc). They're just ways to escape. They're a crutch. I try really hard not to judge people who like to use these substances, but I can't help but wonder WHY they want to get so far from their real selves? Is reality so bad? Is being drunk/high really so much fun? I seriously doubt it. When we tour, the drinkers/smokers/drug users I play with need the most rest, get tired the quickest and are ones with the least money when we come home. They make fun of me because I never want the free beers bartenders offer me, and I decline the offers of weed that come my way so often (having dreadlocks past my butt sometimes has some drawbacks.) Funny enough, I'm the one who knows what town we're in when we tour, and I'm also the one who can argue intelligently with club owners when they're trying to screw us out of our gig money. I also don't wake in the a.m. with a fuzzy head and a hacking cough. As loathe as I am to quote anything a Reagan has uttered, it's pretty frickin' easy to "Just say NO" when offered more than you can handle. Drugs/drinking have ruined more musicians than most of us can count. Why be a statistic?[/b][/quote]
Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp
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[quote]Originally posted by Magpel: [b]More bong hits do not multiply the benefit and can turn you into a softball head. [/b][/quote] I'm guessing you're referring to the "pot kills braincells" thing. (If you're not, please ignore this.) The idea that pot kills braincells came from erroneous research conducted during the 70's. I don't have ALL the facts, but what I do know is the test subjects (monkeys) were forced to breath massive amounts of pot smoke for periods of up to 15 minutes at a time. It wasn't pot that killed their braincells, it was a lack of enough oxygen. Don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating 24/7 cannabis abuse. In moderation, I can't see any reason to worry, but being high 24/7 probably WILL turn you into a "softball head" - the brain just doesn't seem to want to fully function when you're high (short-term memory, speech, etc.) To keep the subject somewhat on topic, the research I have seen shows alcohol has MUCH more detrimental and permanent effects on the brain than does cannabis. Just my $0.02.. :) Peace, Harold
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[quote]Originally posted by 'rold: [b] I'm guessing you're referring to the "pot kills braincells" thing. (If you're not, please ignore this.) [/b][/quote] Harold, no, I wasn't citing neurological studies...just the empirical observation that habitual pot use slows you down a bit. I've always thought that pot was great for reflecting but not much good for getting things done. John
Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp
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It seems that for many of the players / drinkers I've known, the issue was nerves. Many people have early music experiences where they're so full of nervous energy that a drink or two settles down the edge. The problem becomes embedded when it turns into a regular crutch. If you "believe" that you can't go on without your shot of Jack Daniels, it's gonna be hard for someone to convince you it's not true. I think it's the same with Cocaine. You get fooled into thinking you're "better" so you keep doing it to get to the same "level". These beliefs are hard to break, especially if the first few times you try to play straight, you have problems... Then it's back to the bottle or blow for support. In the few cases where the band noticed that one of us was getting out of control, we started a strict no lubricant at rehearsals policy. This gave the intended party a no-risk way to see for themselves that they could perform without the help of their favorite confidence booster. As the confidence grew... they were able to face a crowd in a sober state of mind... and rarely looked back. Good luck to anyone wrestling with their own "demons". guitplayer

I'm still "guitplayer"!

Check out my music if you like...

 

http://www.michaelsaulnier.com

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[quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b]I basically don't drink. Doesn't mean I don't ever drink, doesn't mean I don't/haven't been drunk, it means I choose not to. ... I used to go to these parties, would play at them eventually, and think "ok... people sitting around getting drunk and stoned; they're not really conversing, they're just collectively lowering their I.Q. in the same room. Obviously a bonding experience, but what's real about it?". End of the night everyone is passed out. Maybe one clown did something "remarkably" entertaining. But generally people just hung out. They couldn't just hang out anyhow, they had to place a purpose of "getting trashed" on the event. [/b][/quote] Great post, Chip... Yeah, that pretty much sums up my attitude about drinking and drugs. If other people want to do it and they're not hurting anybody else or getting behind the wheel of a car, fine... But I'm not interested in participating or being around someone who is drunk or stoned. I don't need alcohol/drugs when I've got music, dreams (now [i]there's[/i] an alternate reality for ya!), running (if you aren't inhabiting a different planet by the time you're on mile 25 of a marathon, there's something wrong with you :eek: ), habanero peppers, Indian food (as spicy as possible), the Yellow Submarine movie, video games, and an occasional stay at a hotel with a hot tub (ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!). [ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: popmusic ]
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[quote]Originally posted by coaster: [b]its the whole musical connection thing, you know? because we communicate with music beyond words. a lot of bands get this connection. the 'family' thing that some bands get into. **** i have even done experiments with mixing while drinking. sometimes at the end of a night i'll have a beer or two or 6 and feel like working on one of the tunes i have (other folks's mostly). i'll make a backup copy of the tune in case i botch it or hate it the next day, and just feel free to drink beer and make changes. pretty soon i know i have had enough and quit. the next day i think "oh my god, how bad did i mess that mix up last night"and to my suprise, i almost always like that mix better and [i]keep it that way[/i] [/b][/quote] Lots of great posts here ... Coaster - From the amount of time you all spend together on setup, gigging, dining, etc., it sounds like the band situation is as social as it is musical. Also, the fact that you're posting on this issue is a pretty good sign that it's a pretty big deal to you. My guess is that if you're going to dry out, you HAVE to get your band involved - given the amount of time you all spend together and the effect the culture of the band has on you. Be up front with them - let em know you're drying out for a bit, and you need their help with it. And if they're not helping you out with it, I'm with Dylan - they're not worth your talent and time. Whether or not beers make you a "better" mixer or keyboard player is irrelevant. As Lee and others have said, it's really not worth it to be marginally "better" as a player, if it costs you friends/gigs/DUIs/your life ... I have to say that my personal feelings on this issue are a bit harsh ... I have NEVER stayed in a band where people drink at rehearsals. I hate wasting time at rehearsals - it's hard enough to get people in a room together at the same time without having to wonder if someone is "all there." And my experience is that booze erases all that hard work on parts and arrangements. As for gigs, "it was the beer" is just about the lamest excuse I can imagine for missing a change or screwing up a solo ... and if I know a player is drinking hard at a gig, it's the first thing I think of when he/she screws up. Grass at rehearsals and sessions? Forget it(literally). I love drinking with friends. It's just that it drives me nuts to have to work around it when I'm playing in bands, and so I choose bands and players accordingly. Anyway, my ranting aside, I'd lean on your band mates for support. Good luck ...
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I agree, Magpel... drugs and/or alcohol can help you get in touch with parts of yourself that are normally repressed. BUT... for one thing, very occasional use accomplishes this. You can for example, take LSD just a few times in your life and what you learn from it will stay with you. Once a drug becomes something that you NEED to do in order to release repressed emotions, it's a crutch. If you can't figure out a way to come to terms with repressed emotions other than getting drunk or going to therapy, that's a problem in itself. We all have feelings that are ugly and/or socially unacceptable, but that doesn't mean we can't feel them within ourselves, and/or express them in "socially acceptable" ways by talking to a friend or writing a song about it or keeping a journal or playing a sport or what have you. If you don't allow yourself to even FEEL things as they happen, without alcohol or drugs, then the repressed stuff will just build up and become something unmanageable. Sometimes, simply acknowledging to yourself or, if you're lucky, a friend you trust, that you feel a certain way makes it manageable. A lot of people feel guilty for even FEELING something they think is unacceptable, but allowing yourself to go ahead and feel something even if you don't directly act on it goes a long way. Most alcoholics seem to have trouble doing this, and won't talk to anyone about their feelings either because they feel bad about themselves for feeling that way, or because they think the feelings are a sign of weakness and are loathe to be vulnerable in front of somebody else (without the "I was drunk/high" excuse). --Lee
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<> With all respect for your lifestyle decisions, and acknowledging that drugs have destroyed many, let me offer the opinion that under approrpriate circumstances, moderate use is not so much an "escape from real self" as it is a sneak peak at alternate selves. I don't want to overstate the "psychic journey" theme 'cause it's mostly nonsense, but psychoactive drugs can bring to the surface things that lurk in the uncosncious (or wherever you locate the "freungian" dark matter) and so in a sense *can* be a means of getting to know your real, multifaceted self better. The law of diminsihing returns applies, of course. One bong a week hit might clear some things for you. More bong hits do not multiply the benefit and can turn you into a softball head. A little drink is an emotional lubricant. Many of you non-drinkers have observed that it makes people into sappy or violent messes--when they go too far with it. Yes, it's ugly, but for many people the "drunk effect" is simply a license to feel what is routinely repressed--love or anger. It ain't a perfect or long-term solution, but genuine catharsis is possible. The regret that follows a particularly effusive night of drunken confession does not occur because the gut-spilling was unreal or artifical--it occurs because the gut-spilling was socially inappropriate. It's real. There's just no place for it except bars and therapy. I am a very moderate abuser of cannabis and alcohol--I like it but can utterly live without it. I am, however, a deeply troubled nicotine junkie--a life-long war that I've decided I must win. Occasional intoxication can be a lovely thing. Addiction is a nightmare. <> John/Magpel... I see your point. However, it seems there are very few of us musician types who know the meaning of "moderation" -- with drink, drugs or anything. For some reason, we tend towards extremes. I see myself no differently with my extreme aversion to narcotics and intoxicants. Again, I try not to judge anyone who likes to drink or smoke a joint on occaision. One of my bands had a horrible problem with an old bassist who could not say "no" to a beer or a line when they were offered to him. He almost got us arrested crossing into Canada once on tour (cocaine on his driver's license, DUH), and he almost got us arrested when when he drunkenly mouthed off to a police officer in Boston. He showed up at rehearsal drunk/high a few times, and he eventually became a liability to us because he had no control over his drug/alcohol use. We tried talking to him about it, and he swore it was not gonna happen again... needless to say, this was bullshit. He never had cash for projects and always had to borrow when we went on tour. When we finally dismissed him, we had to keep his rig in order to clear up his past debts (and it still wasn't really even.) "Moderation" wasn't in his vocabulary. I'm not talking about getting to know your alternate self (or whatever you wanna call it) through pot or beer. Easing open "The Doors Of Perception" is one thing. I'm talking about abuse. I don't believe a person learns anything about themselves when they're that drunk or high. Those people really need simple sober introspection to realise that they're using a substance as an escape from something in their real lives.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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I'm not fully comfortable playing the role of drinking/smoking advocate, as I think, on the balance, far more bad comes from it than good. I also don't want to proffer a view of drugs as health food for the mind. With very limited experimentation, you can learn all that drugs have to teach you. About being high, it all depends on what you do with it. I know people who get high infrequently, and when they do, they try to make it special--they work on music or write something or climb a mountain (preferably not with ropes). They wouldn't think of going to the store or going to work high. Generally, the sensitivity of the moderate user is much greater than that of the habitual user, so getting high is, per force, special, meaning it really f*cks you up, as it should. Drugs are most scary when they *don't* f*ck you up, IMO. This is why cocaine never did anything for me. It presents no challenges. I've never tried heroin, but I suspect it is a similarly unchallenging drug. At least the hallucingeons make you work for your pleasures. I used to use pot more frequently as a creative stimulant. A little bit helped me defeat negativity, and may on a few occasions have helped me defeat my own musical orthodoxies as well. But this was in my four track era. In the DAW era, the potential complications of recording are too great. Pot might give me a jolt of initial energy and a sense of possibilities, but the drain it puts on my stamina is a deterent. So I don't do that much anymore. Getting high/drunk is a sensual pleasure, and as with all sensual pleasures, it carries a host of attendant risks--from puking and paranoia to the more frightening risks of long-term abuse. So, by way of this almost stoned incoherent rant, rant, I repudiate my role as drug endorser... John
Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp
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My own experiences-- Back when I was a drummer playing top 40, I would have a few too many beers at a show and think nothing of it. If I got drunk so what. I was young and could handle it. One night I played exceptionally well. I mean EXCEPTIONALLY well! The next night some of the other musicians in the city came thru to hear the band. I was spent. I had no clue how I was going to climb that performance mountain again that night... Anyway, I turned to my buddies heineken & bacardi, and heineken & bacardi turned me out! I played my ass off and felt like I commanded the second best show of my life. At the bar later I jokingly told one of our backround singers that I had a few too many beers. She said "I could tell!" I said how, she said "because you played sloppy"!! There I was thinking I'd impressed the musician's in town and I'd actually played a sloppy show.....I never played drunk again! What I did was stop the multiple drink syndrome, and get one nice sized glass of something strong like Remy, and take a big sip before each set to get a buzz....soda for the rest of the night! One Big Drink - Desired effect!! For the studio Ive learned simalar lesson's like; NEVER drink during mix down! Some of you can get away with it, nobody Ive been around could pull it off...Usually the mix comes out too uninhibited-The mixer/producer's fav instrument is too dominant in the mix. Most times control is what mixing is all about. During recording only select musician's(the most professional) and the Producer(me) are allowed to sip on something for mood only! Sometimes background singers can sip wine before a session, but in general singers are allowed to drink only AFTER recording. Key word for studio-- Sip.
TROLL . . . ish.
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[quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b]I basically don't drink. Doesn't mean I don't ever drink, doesn't mean I don't/haven't been drunk, it means I choose not to. I'm always chided for it. I'm a social ogre because of it.[/b][/quote] Chip, I think it is great you make a choice for yourself and stand behind it, but I do not believe anyone sees a person who choses not to drink as a “social ogre” because of it. If a person is seen as a “social ogre,” it is because of other behavioral choices they engage in, not their choice to not drink alcohol. [quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b]What pisses me off to no end is that it's held against me.[/b][/quote] Chip, is your self-esteem so low that your emotional state can be upset by the opinion of a lot of people you consider “quite stupid and dull?” I don’t understand this...you go on at length about how people who get wasted are “mindless and weak minded,” but you give their opinions of you merit to the degree that you feel pissed off to no end? [quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b]What a farce; sitting in a loud bar, yelling at people while getting intoxicated is a "good time"? Bullshit, it's self-perceived acceptance validation. I don't need my senses wrecked to have fun; I want to have my fun fully aware, thank you. It's better that way, and it's REAL. I want *real* fun![/b][/quote] I used to feel this way too, Chip, but I have come to a different conclusion based on my willingness to accept people for who they truly are and not trying to do a Pygmalion project on them. The simple fact is some people really do have a good time by getting intoxicated with other people in a loud bar. I do not, and clearly, you do not, but that does not make their fun any less valid or real. In my perception, the fastest way to become a “social ogre” is to spend your time invalidating other people’s genuine experience, regardless of how much value (or lack thereof) you place upon it. [quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b]I'd have accomplished so much more by now, both musically and in life if I never had to put up with drunk and stoned people.[/b][/quote] Excepting one’s childhood. “putting up with” drunk and stoned people is a personal choice, not something you are forced to do. If you have accomplished less in your life and your music because of your choice to associate with people who had a problem with drug or alcohol use, accept responsibility for that and move on with the wisdom needed to make better choices in the future. Chip, you are clearly a gifted human being in so many ways...why worry about what a barload of drunks think of you, or let those same people limit your potential as a human being in terms of social relationships, your creative expression or your self-image? They aren’t worth your time or your judgement...and you are worth more than that. Seek out others who share your vision and realize your true family...don’t spend time feeling ostracized from one that you know you wouldn’t fit in anyway.
Go tell someone you love that you love them.
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[quote]The simple fact is some people really do have a good time by getting intoxicated with other people in a loud bar. I do not, and clearly, you do not, but that does not make their fun any less valid or real.[/quote] heh, I wasn't going to say anything but since you said it so well...I'll comment further... I have TONS of fond memories of hanging out in bars drinking...I never got too drunk to remember ;) ...as I sit here remembering all those great times I can't imagine having missed them. Some people know how to party, some don't...I always knew how to party and enjoyed the hell out of those times. I don't go out as often as I used to now that I have a kid but I still get together with friends to have drinks or smoke...not all the time and there's plenty of times where I don't drink at all but there is something to be said for "getting intoxicated with other people in a loud bar"...I guess it depends on what part you take in it and the people you hang with. Just blabbering...soberly :) [ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Steve LeBlanc ]
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Uh, aeon, please cut Chip a little slack. I don't have a self esteem problem and I certainly don't care what a bunch of stupid people think... but it's still a pain in the ass that soooo many otherwise talented and intelligent musicians are frequent drunks. For a long time, it seemed to me that in order to get in a band with anybody talented I was probably going to have to babysit a lot of people with drug or alcohol problems. It was exasperating. And believe me, I do my best to accept people as they are. When I started working in music and realized how many drunks and addicts there were, I didn't pass judgement, I just tried to deal with it and move on. It gets old. It's very hard not to be hurt when you feel completely alone in your choice not to drink, especially when you don't understand why other people are so consumed with it, people who might otherwise be likeable. It can also get frustrating if you're trying to play "serious" music and everybody's drunk and your performance is lost on them. I don't have that problem because much of the music I'm into playing happens to work just fine for partying and drunkenness :) , but I can see where someone like Chip would get a little tired of throwing his pearls before swine. And besides that, you probably haven't seen the drunks where Chip lives. :D --Lee
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[b] Chip, I think it is great you make a choice for yourself and stand behind it, but I do not believe anyone sees a person who choses not to drink as a “social ogre” because of it. If a person is seen as a “social ogre,” it is because of other behavioral choices they engage in, not their choice to not drink alcohol.[/b] Sorry, if you're the only person among a 100 at a party not drinking - you're "different". [b]Chip, is your self-esteem so low that your emotional state can be upset by the opinion of a lot of people you consider “quite stupid and dull?” I don’t understand [/b] No, you don't understand. You're also misrepresenting what I posted. I didn't say those people were stupid and dull by default, but that by drinking they became that way. Also understand that to be upset by a situation doesn't mean one is upset by what people think, but by the situation itself. There's a difference. If I cared about what those people thought, I would be a drinker, wouldn't I? [b]this...you go on at length about how people who get wasted are “mindless and weak minded,” but you give their opinions of you merit to the degree that you feel pissed off to no end?[/b] I don't give their opinions much credit at all, no. If that's considered entertainment to them, I'm sorry - that's pretty sad to me. If you don't understand why I'd feel pissed off that it seems a large majority of the population prefers to sit in a room where they can't talk to each other and breath smoke while they get drunk... I can't explain. It has nothing to do with their opinions, but their choices of what to do with their lives. (I was wondering how long it would take this sort of a post to respond....

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Lee: I did ask that question of Chip in the rhetorical, but I see how it could have come off as harsh, even including what I said to Chip at the end. So to that end... [i]Chip, I offer my apology.[/i] Lee, I guess I don’t feel bothered by “otherwise talented and intelligent musicians” because at the end of the day I don’t compartmentalize people’s behavior...a drunk is a drunk, musician or no. I don’t feel hurt by my choice to not drink to intoxication, because being denied socialization with people who have no self-respect is not a loss. I don’t choose to waste time or energy, emotional or otherwise, on people who cannot return the same in like kind in a relationship, musical or otherwise. I mean, why would I choose to compromise myself and then feel bad about it? [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]And besides that, you probably haven't seen the drunks where Chip lives.[/b][/quote] Actually, I used to live in Augusta, GA, so perhaps I should cut Chip a [b]lot[/b] of slack. :eek:
Go tell someone you love that you love them.
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[quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b]If you don't understand why I'd feel pissed off that it seems a large majority of the population prefers to sit in a room where they can't talk to each other and breath smoke while they get drunk... I can't explain. It has nothing to do with their opinions, but their choices of what to do with their lives.[/b][/quote] OK, thanks for the clarification...clear as crystal now. Please accept my previous apology. I understand what you are saying now...why do so many people, with so much to offer and so many talents, choose to spend time snuffing those things out in the name of an ephemeral fun that has no lasting meaning when they could be realizing something far more meaningful and fulfulling? Well, if I could really answer that I’d not only solve a few musician’s problems, but perhaps all of humanity’s. ;) Cheers, mate.
Go tell someone you love that you love them.
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