"Nobody is covered for fuzz!" :D

[Winston Psmith]

Brother Jimi makes a very strong point about how few original designs there really are, as opposed to the overwhelming numbers of clones, reissues, and variations on a theme, or two, or three. I got into double digits counting versions of the Big Muff on the EHX website alone. When I was looking at OD's, trying to find something that wasn't based on a Tube Screamer was a mission unto itself.

 

I also remember the first time I opened up my first Big Muff to change the battery, back in 1973, IIRC? I was surprised at how little circuitry there was inside the big enclosure.

 

Maybe with someone like Jimi looking over my shoulder, I might attempt to build a simple Fuzz, or something, but left to my own devices, better not.

[surfergirl]

As a total pedal novice I'm glad another pedal expert to annoy with my questions.

[Larryz]

Now you know who I was referring to Surfer Girl when I mentioned Pink Jimi Photon a few months ago. He is definitely an expert on Fuzz, Dist, OD's, etc. We are very fortunate to have him back on board...

[surfergirl]

After two Gary Clark Jr concerts I have to careful about going to far overboard on fuzz pedals. He sure does love the fuzz, and he's really good at it.

[Winston Psmith]

@Surfergirl - I wrote up a couple of info sheets for friends who were just getting into effects pedals - what order different effects go in, what different effects groups do, how they're classified. Be glad to send them to you, or find a way to share them here, if no one minds. I don't want to bog down the whole thread.

[Caevan O’Shite]

@Surfergirl - I wrote up a couple of info sheets for friends who were just getting into effects pedals - what order different effects go in, what different effects groups do, how they're classified. Be glad to send them to you, or find a way to share them here, if no one minds. I don't want to bog down the whole thread.

 

Please do- here, or on another thread, as you please- positive, helpful info is always appreciated and never to be minded and it certainly wouldn't be "bogging down" this thread or forum!

[Dannyalcatraz]

+1

 

That"s all information commonly sought by new guitarists on the boards I frequent. A thread on that would be a good resource!

[Winston Psmith]

@Caevan and Dannyalcatraz - Will do! Let me re-read & edit, will start new SFX 101 thread later this evening. It's not a lot to read, I was writing for a bunch of Folk Musicians to begin with, so getting into BPM Charts, or the Math & Physics of Ring Modulators wasn't going to be especially useful, nor would it have endeared me to anyone. In this case, I'll be glad to reiterate my technique for "tuning" your Ring Modulator, or getting a Barber-Pole Flange out of your Pitch Shifter, if anyone wants to know?

[surfergirl]

I was going to have you email it to me, but if you can post here that would be great.

[Caevan O’Shite]

@Caevan and Dannyalcatraz - Will do! Let me re-read & edit, will start new SFX 101 thread later this evening. It's not a lot to read, I was writing for a bunch of Folk Musicians to begin with, so getting into BPM Charts, or the Math & Physics of Ring Modulators wasn't going to be especially useful, nor would it have endeared me to anyone. In this case, I'll be glad to reiterate my technique for "tuning" your Ring Modulator, or getting a Barber-Pole Flange out of your Pitch Shifter, if anyone wants to know?

 

 

Yes, yess and thrice Yesss to all of the above!

[Dannyalcatraz]

@Caevan and Dannyalcatraz - Will do! Let me re-read & edit, will start new SFX 101 thread later this evening. It's not a lot to read, I was writing for a bunch of Folk Musicians to begin with, so getting into BPM Charts, or the Math & Physics of Ring Modulators wasn't going to be especially useful, nor would it have endeared me to anyone. In this case, I'll be glad to reiterate my technique for "tuning" your Ring Modulator, or getting a Barber-Pole Flange out of your Pitch Shifter, if anyone wants to know?

 

I am all for learning or re-learning how to use pedals. Pinkjimiphoton"s videos, Cave"s hints- all have helped ME out.

 

[Winston Psmith]

@surfergirl - Look for the SFX 101 thread, started just this morning. I'll add to it, as time goes on, and I'm sure other players will contribute, too. In the meantime, feel free to send me a PM with any questions you might have.

 

For anyone else, if there's some point you want me to elaborate on, ask at your own risk. I'd be glad to expand into Looping, MIDI Guitar & Synthesizers, if anyone is interested.

[Caevan O’Shite]

kev, don't get too hung up on brand name bullshit.

 

Uhmn, I'm not hung up on anything.

 

ya'll would be surprised how much of the marketing hype shite ya'll believe... ...several of the pedals you're paying too much for...

 

Could you be much more condescending and insulting? I mean, I know it would take some effort to exceed that, but past experience with you here and on Facebook has me confident in your being up to the task.

 

This whole thread started in fun, quoting a friend here who'd posted that "Nobody is covered for fuzz!", and my pointing out a couple of octave-fuzz types that he does not seem to have "covered" and that I believed that he and another friend would really enjoy (particularly the Foxrox Octron).

 

...can be had for 50-100 or less in "chinese" versions on ebay n shit.

 

There are plenty of reasons to avoid " "chinese" versions on ebay n shit", and also to seek what one wants where one finds it. If I find something that satisfies me, regardless of brand-name or the recommendation of irritating Bozos on the internet, I'll go with that. Hopefully without getting ripped-off.

 

(FWIW, I got my Octafuzz for $80 used, but pristine; and my '69 for about $122, free shipping.)

 

the bluebox is more of a phase locked loop than a fuzz per se. pll's are a pain in the ass to design with. god, i hate them things.

 

Duly noted. We'll all know better now. So what? Your point? The only mention of the (MXR) Blue Box above here was my asking my friend Dannyalcatraz if a certain pedal he owns is more or less a better version of it.

 

the fulltone 69 is just a fuzzface.

 

No secret that it's a Fuzz Face based pedal, though it's pretty debatable about being "just a fuzzface", the quality and usefulness is there and that's not BS.

 

it has a PRESET volume loss, which you can accomplish with your guitar knobs alone.

 

It works better with my Les Paul and its hot ceramic humbuckers than other FF stylees that I've tried, and it has several controls, external and internal, that are very useful, making it quite versatile and FUN and A PLEASURE TO PLAY. (It's surprisingly low-noise, I'll add.) And using my guitar's controls and my "touch" are HUGE parts of what I do, how I play, so...

 

its not really an improvement, just easier for guys to dial it in without using their guitar as part of the equation.

 

...is NOT "a part of the equation". Again, could you be much more condescending and insulting, while braying in ignorance?

 

last i checked, silicon, not ge.

 

Apparently, you'd never checked- don't spread mis- and disinformation around the internet- the Fulltone '69 is, and always has been a germanium-transistor Fuzz Face based pedal; it is not, and never ever was, equipped with any silicon transistors. That's the whole point of the '69 and its sister pedal, the '70- they use germanium transistors, and silicon transistors, respectively, for their different qualities, pluses and minuses alike.

 

basically these days, its a

 

fuzz face

or

tonebender.... almost the same thing

 

or

a big muff.... literally thousands of variants

 

or a tube screamer.... even MORE variants from all the others. those 4 basic circuits cover about 99% of the whole fuzz world thats out there. one component change and people call it original.

mostly they take old circuits, make a couple minor part value changes and "tweak" them to lean toward a specific tonality.

 

Did you think that any of that was some kind of a news flash to those of us here?

 

as for shin ei? you REALLY wanna pay inflated vintage prices NEW for shit that's #1 selling point is nostalgia? do ya really wanna spend 400 bux on a superfuzz when you can get literally the same circuit for 39.95 shipped?

 

Probably not. While there is something to be said for "nostalgia" if that's something that someone wants, that's fine, I was just surprised to learn about that line effectively being revived, with other items added. Whether anything they offer would be worth whatever prices (maybe even used), TO ME, remains to be seen.

 

I did once have an ancient JAX FY-2 Fuzz Master Unit, long ago, that happened to be a weird version of an already rare version, a germanium transistor model. I didn't know it was "rare" or special among its kind at the time, though out of curiosity I did open it up and check out its innards. I would love to have another that sounded and behaved exactly the way that one did.

 

if ya REALLY love fuzz, get yourself a breadboard and cook your own up. its easy, and you'll find you may enjoy building your own, rather than paying insane money for literally less than 40 bux worth of parts.

 

This from someone who once told me, when I asked about paying you for a custom build, that it'd cost me around $200 or $250 or more, and then you got all insultingly belligerent with me when you misunderstood something I wanted and would not let me explain, and just kept spewing the same condescending, ranting BS.

 

Mike Fuller has a bad reputation for rude and abrasive customer relations, but he's got nothing on you there.

 

As far as I'm concerned, don't let the door hit you too hard on the ass on your way out.

 

[CEB]

My favorite Fuzz is still the OLD Jordan Bosstone. Guitar players don't seem to give it many props anymore. My circle of player friends love but many of them also play pedal steel. The Bosstone was the Fuzz for pedal steel. In fact the originals weren't a pedal. It was a box with a protruding phono plug that plugged straight into the side of your steel.

 

Voodoo Labs claimed to have built a Bosstone clone pedal but it was different. Still a decent Fuzz. It became their Superfuzz. The closest modern rendition I know is Chris Mahoney's Buzztone pedal.

 

I have a Russian Muff on my 90s band board. I usually like it but last week the guitar tone was getting lost on the two songs I use it on. Hopefully Billy at the front desk has my back. Fuzz is tricky for me to get right in a band mix setting. Probably works better in trios.

[Larryz]

I tried a fuzz pedal a long time ago in the 60's and again in the 70's. Never bonded with them however, so I have not used one ever since, and from the sound of those samples above, I am not impressed for my tonal needs.

 

+1 DBM, I'm not a big fan of fuzz, OD or Distortion, as I mainly play and prefer the clean guitar sound. One of my old favorite songs is Satisfaction by the Stones...If I was going to buy a fuzz, it would be for my trying to play and sing just one song. I have had a Tube Screamer, a Boss Distortion and Boss Blues Driver along with a Fender Floor Multi. I still have the Fender Floor but it's been on the shelf now for quite awhile. The Tube Screamer broke down within a year or so back in '79. The other two were sold a few years ago. I'll pull the Floor out again if I ever add Satisfaction to my song list again LOL!

 

 

 

[Winston Psmith]

Way back in the 70's, I was in a band where the Rhythm player had a Bosstone, and I had a Big Muff for Lead. We definitely got different tones from them.

 

Among my current Fuzz stash, I have a NYC Big Muff, and a Voodoo Lab Bosstone, and I find them very close in overall sound, but also in overall noise floor. I love them both, but neither of them live on my current pedalboard.

 

My current mainstay Fuzz is my bright pink Mojo Hand FX Iron Bell. Nice compact box, with a Color control for Mids. It's very quiet with HB's, but you definitely hear the noise floor with SC's. Before I lucked onto the Iron Bell, I was considering one of the more compact Muff variants, either the silver Triangle Muff, or the Green Russian.

 

I think Fuzz can be a beautiful sound, used judiciously - I suppose that's almost oxymoronic when we're talking about Fuzz pedals, but still. I try to balance the Volume and Gain knobs so I get a nice fat Sustain sound, without a massive Volume boost, or an overly abrasive Drive sound. Takes some fine-tuning, but for me, it's worth it.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Sometimes, you need to max out a pedal, amp or guitar. Other times, subtlety is demanded. The skill is in knowing which to do, when.

 

I"m always pleasantly surprised when I find out someone"s seemingly simple guitar tone is actually a carefully balanced mix of effects, including some I never expected.

[Winston Psmith]

@Dannyalcatraz - For me, there's an easy test as to how much Drive, Distortion or Fuzz is too much; every note must be articulate.

 

FWIW, my 'clean' tone includes the Messner OD, set so I can just tell when it's On, and as often as not, a Chorus effect dialed back to act as more of a "thickener" than a Modulator. I don't stack the Messner with my other Dirt boxes, as I find it gives a surprising boost to almost anything that follows it in the signal chain, including many of my Mod & Delay pedals. Still looking for the "just right" Mid-Gain OD, though.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Oh, I agree about articulation...to a point. But if I"m heading into the territory where critters like Bit Crushers are the alpha predators, articulation takes a back seat to useful noise and glorious sonic apocalypse.

 

Admittedly, I don"t visit there often and rarely stay for long*, but I"m definitely bringing the right survival tools and the 007 license to use them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* don"t want to scare my doggies, after all.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just noticed that the 'Edit' button disappears after a while.

 

I noticed this because 'Caev"s' got Autocorrected to 'Cave"s' upthread. Sorry about that, Caev!

[Larryz]

The Edit button disappears on posts in about 24 hrs. At least it did in the past system and I suspect it does in this one as well. So I would suggest posters delete or edit their posts within 24 hrs. Also, if your edit button is gone and you can no longer edit or delete, you can always quote yourself and make explanations of the woulda coulda shoulda corrections you wanted to post.

[Winston Psmith]

Oh, I agree about articulation...to a point. But if I"m heading into the territory where critters like Bit Crushers are the alpha predators, articulation takes a back seat to useful noise and glorious sonic apocalypse.

 

Admittedly, I don"t visit there often and rarely stay for long*, but I"m definitely bringing the right survival tools and the 007 license to use them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* don"t want to scare my doggies, after all.

 

As you feel know, I have a deep fondness for what I like to call Crapulators, or I'd have no interest in Ring Mods, Bit Crushers, and the like.

 

At one time, I couldn't resist sending a Ring Mod through a Big Muff, back when all I had was a Ring Mod, a Big Muff, a Phase 90 and a Funny Cat (weird Envelope Follower w/Distortion). I've found that the more a pedal or processor abuses your signal, the less it needs to be paired with or pushed through any kind of OD/Distortion, unless the goal is a more or less completely mangled sound, in which case, I salute you!

 

You may appreciate this, regarding dogs and weird noises - Way back when I was still living in NYC and had my 1st Ring Mod, the original EHX Frequency Analyzer, I found that if I cranked all the knobs, the sound would go well out of my range of hearing, but my dog would cock his head and stare at the Amp as if it had said something offensive. Clearly, it was putting out frequencies that he could hear, even if I couldn't.

 

 

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Speaking of guitar & dogs...here"s a vid where the only fuzz in evidence is on 'Fido'

[video:youtube]

 

Alas, MY two dogs are completely ad odds over my playing. Our older one loves it when I grab a guitar, acoustic or electric. Our younger one has always skulked off if I reach for either. And I mean from day 1 in our house as a puppy, before she had ever heard me play. :idk

[pinky poo]

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

Uhmn, I'm not hung up on anything.

 

yeah kevin, tell us about it. you're one smug little luddite who really believes your own hype.

 

 

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

 

 

Could you be much more condescending and insulting?

EASILY, just watch, son

 

 

 

I mean, I know it would take some effort to exceed that, but past experience with you here and on Facebook has me confident in your being up to the task.

As i recall, you were quite something of an idiot on facebook, and spreading your peculiar brand of misinformed baloney ad nauseum, glad that hasn't changed.

 

This whole thread started in fun, quoting a friend here who'd posted that "Nobody is covered for fuzz!", and my pointing out a couple of octave-fuzz types that he does not seem to have "covered" and that I believed that he and another friend would really enjoy (particularly the Foxrox Octron).

 

yeah, sell someone on the most expensive stuff out there, with the exact same circuitry as an affordable pedal. way to go, kevin. high five. not everyone out there can afford to pay the kind of prices that you seem to endorse as tho somehow the fucking electrons give a shit who built the circuit they flow thru... yeah... ok. btw, i've known dave at foxrox for ever, and love the guy and his products, so.... carry on... lmao

 

 

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

 

 

There are plenty of reasons to avoid " "chinese" versions on ebay n shit", and also to seek what one wants where one finds it. If I find something that satisfies me, regardless of brand-name or the recommendation of irritating Bozos on the internet, I'll go with that. Hopefully without getting ripped-off.

if ya had any brains, you'd buy the 30$ knock off to see if you're gonna like the circuit before plunking down 5-600 bux for the same thing built by some asshole like ME. ... but, what do i know?

 

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

(FWIW, I got my Octafuzz for $80 used, but pristine; and my '69 for about $122, free shipping.)

 

awesome.  i don't support fuller, but then, i'm a different kind of human than that guy. most of the people i would consider hanging out with don't support people who force their particularly unfriendly viewpoints about other folks on them like i'm doing right now... all people are equal and free, and i choose not to support those who deny those basic rights to others. but you can do what you choose.

 

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

 

 

Duly noted. We'll all know better now. So what? Your point? The only mention of the (MXR) Blue Box above here was my asking my friend Dannyalcatraz if a certain pedal he owns is more or less a better version of it.

 

 

 

No secret that it's a Fuzz Face based pedal, though it's pretty debatable about being "just a fuzzface", the quality and usefulness is there and that's not BS.

the fulltone is a fuzzface with a couple tweaks. it is what it is. he didn't exactly invent it, nor the mods he got famous for doing to it. as a denizen of the internet bloviant perhaps it would do well to actually research some of the actual history and function of these circuits you endorse overpaying for.
you could likely make your own with minimal effort, its not generally rocket science.

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

 

 

It works better with my Les Paul and its hot ceramic humbuckers than other FF stylees that I've tried, and it has several controls, external and internal, that are very useful, making it quite versatile and FUN and A PLEASURE TO PLAY. (It's surprisingly low-noise, I'll add.) And using my guitar's controls and my "touch" are HUGE parts of what I do, how I play, so...

keep telling yourself that   i've heard your video playing. you're ok.  but you miss every single legit point so far you could make in your rant. am i sick of your know it all bullshit? sure. that's one of the reasons i don't generally deal with ya, but someone pointed me here earlier, and i thought since we were once friends you deserved a personal reply.  well, not deserved. i can't think of anything i'd feel you'd be worthy of actually recieving from even my lowly ass.

 

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

 

 

...is NOT "a part of the equation". Again, could you be much more condescending and insulting, while braying in ignorance?

fuck off, child. you are clueless as hell.

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

 

 

Apparently, you'd never checked- don't spread mis- and disinformation around the internet- the Fulltone '69 is, and always has been a germanium-transistor Fuzz Face based pedal; it is not, and never ever was, equipped with any silicon transistors. That's the whole point of the '69 and its sister pedal, the '70- they use germanium transistors, and silicon transistors, respectively, for their different qualities, pluses and minuses alike.

i know what's in them. germanium is something i am quite intimate with. because of this, i also know that its unneccessary and WHY its unnecessary, as well as when and how to use it. the fulltone tricks will work with any fuzzface circuit, ge or si.  proper gain of the transistors is far more important than substrate material and i've personally designed a bunch of fuzzfaces for different folks to get them whatever sound they're looking for with readily available thru hole components.
but by all means, support whom you want.  but to see ya so bitter makes my heart sing.

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

 

 

Did you think that any of that was some kind of a news flash to those of us here?

 

 

 

Probably not. While there is something to be said for "nostalgia" if that's something that someone wants, that's fine, I was just surprised to learn about that line effectively being revived, with other items added. Whether anything they offer would be worth whatever prices (maybe even used), TO ME, remains to be seen.

 

I did once have an ancient JAX FY-2 Fuzz Master Unit, long ago, that happened to be a weird version of an already rare version, a germanium transistor model. I didn't know it was "rare" or special among its kind at the time, though out of curiosity I did open it up and check out its innards. I would love to have another that sounded and behaved exactly the way that one did.

 

 

 

This from someone who once told me, when I asked about paying you for a custom build, that it'd cost me around $200 or $250 or more, and then you got all insultingly belligerent with me when you misunderstood something I wanted and would not let me explain, and just kept spewing the same condescending, ranting BS.

perhaps because you were a condescending twit who couldn't even use the most basic skills to understand what does and does not work and or why, as i'm sure i explained to your arogant and childish ass. yep. condescending. but sometimes, when dealing with some twit that advocates some ridiculous lunacy, well, my patience runs thin.  and then i think of your wanna be jack black ass, and i grin, and move on. kisses, n shit.

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

Mike Fuller has a bad reputation for rude and abrasive customer relations, but he's got nothing on you there.

 

As far as I'm concerned, don't let the door hit you too hard on the ass on your way out.

oh, poor kevin, not getting your own way?  i come and go as i please, but frankly, the stench of your arogance is an effective deterrent from hanging here with some other actual musicians.

 

love and kisses, word to yo mama
pinky poo

On 7/27/2019 at 4:29 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

 

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

Holy Necro-Troll-Bump. Look what I almost stepped in.

[Sharkman]

2 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

Holy Necro-Troll-Bump. Look what I almost stepped in.

This could just be my imagination, but I am getting the impression that he doesn't love you.

[KuruPrionz]

I have no fuzz pedals or fuzz features on amps and also, I have no plugins for my computer recording system that have fuzz. 

Because I don't use it or like it. 

 

Therefore, zero is more than enough. 😇

[Dave Bryce]

I’ve got a Way Huge Swollen Pickle.

 

Just sayin’…

 

dB

 

[Larryz]

9 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

Holy Necro-Troll-Bump. Look what I almost stepped in.

What did you do to this guy Caevan??? LoL! 😎

 

Could it be Pink Jimi?

[KuruPrionz]

But, somebody may be covered IN fuzz?

 

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear

Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair

Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't very Fuzzy, Wuzzy?