Can headphones damage your hearing?

[LiveMusic]

My hearing continues to worsen. Depressing. It is getting very hard for me to understand conversations in bars. About a month ago, it suddenly got much worse. Something happened. Although, I seem to recall my aunt said her severe hearing loss advanced like that, with sudden degradations.

 

Sometimes, I play my keyboard and listen through headphones. Are they more apt to hurt me?

[Philip OKeefe]

Sound pressure levels - regardless of the source - can cause hearing damage. That does include headphones.

 

First of all, make an appointment to see an audiologist RIGHT AWAY. They can measure where your loss is now and that's useful info. They can also check for signs of other hearing related issues and advise you to see a doctor if needed.

 

Second, get a Radio Shack SPL meter - around $40. Monitor your levels when playing and recording and don't exceed 85 dB.

 

If you play live or jam a lot, get some GOOD plugs and USE THEM.

 

Your ears are by far your most important musical gear - protect them!

 

And, sorry to hear that you're having problems.

[Dak Lander]

What Phil said, but I'll add that with head/earphones it's easier to hurt yourself because all the sound is "in your ear". I'm darned careful to keep the volume down when I'm wearing headphones.

 

Another, probably related, thing I've noticed is that I get fatigued quicker when wearing headphones. Is that normal?

[LiveMusic]

I was thinking of you yesterday, Dak. I started to post, "How is Daklander" but I hadn't got around to it.

[seclusion]

Can headphones damage your hearing?

 

Huh???

[mwestenberg]

Hey Dak, I don't know what kind of headphones you use but ones with more distortion can lead to fatigue faster. The phones put the source of the distortion closer to your ear and tend to eliminate other sounds, so, more fatigue. Or, you may be experiencing a simple physical effect from having something clamped to your head for extended periods of time? I tend to experience the latter more than the former. I would tend to think that audio fatigue would happen faster with phones than with monitors all other things being equal (as if that ever happens )

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by mwestenberg:

Hey Dak, I don't know what kind of headphones you use but ones with more distortion can lead to fatigue faster. The phones put the source of the distortion closer to your ear and tend to eliminate other sounds, so, more fatigue. Or, you may be experiencing a simple physical effect from having something clamped to your head for extended periods of time? I tend to experience the latter more than the former. I would tend to think that audio fatigue would happen faster with phones than with monitors all other things being equal (as if that ever happens )

I'm using a decent pair of AIWA headphones.

 

All taken into consideration, it may be a combination of things because I do notice less fatigue if I have the ear cups only partially over my ears. Then again, that kind of leads to the last remark about the fatigue happening faster with phones than monitors, all things being equal.

 

I must have something to do with the sound being so directly in your ear.

 

 

 

 

Hi Duke.

 

On thing I think I've noticed & have to do more checking on is this; The open back headphones don't seem to be as fatigue prone. Maybe because you get more ambient sound too?

[Chip Curtis]

There are many things that can damage your hearing that you may not have thought of. Some prescription drugs may have adverse effects.

 

Did you know you can hear better after you eat?

[fantasticsound]

Don't forget the inverse square law.

 

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/acoustic/imgaco/isqb.gif

 

Now consider a tiny speaker with similarly small output. Only instead of sounding off in an open field, it's immediately coupled with a relatively small airmass directly in front of your eardrum. If we're talking closed muff headphones, then the intensity is further magnified to your eardrum, since the air pressure has nowhere to vent.

 

Therefore, headphones are far more likely to cause hearing damage, even with their miniscule output level, than loud music from a set of speakers.

 

But, of course, both can be damaging to your ears enough to make you deaf. Take Phil's advice and protect your hearing.

[Prague]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

...

Therefore, headphones are far more likely to cause hearing damage, even with their miniscule output level, than loud music from a set of speakers....

I can see how you could arrive at this conclusion, but I can't agree.

 

Sound is always "at the ear". 85dB at the ear is 85dB at the ear, regardless of the source.

[Kaptain Karl]

Did a Google search and found this article

Preventing Hearing Damage When Listening With Headphones

[videoeditor1]

Originally posted by Prague:

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

...

Therefore, headphones are far more likely to cause hearing damage, even with their miniscule output level, than loud music from a set of speakers....

I can see how you could arrive at this conclusion, but I can't agree.

 

Sound is always "at the ear". 85dB at the ear is 85dB at the ear, regardless of the source.

Yes, but to reinforce Neil's point, it takes very little to deliver 85dB (and 85dB is such a bullshit, low end value, let's be honest and call it what it's for - 95dB) to your ears via headphones versus a full range system 10 feet away; and it requires more attention to notice that the levels are what they are using headphones versus speakers.

 

-the volume knob could be at "3", instead of "8"

 

-if you were using a full range system, YOU KNOW the shit is loud when it's loud. "Headphone loud" can creep up on ya.

 

Plus, if you're tracking, and the source in in your sound field, your headphones are probably gonna be even louder.

 

NYC Drew

[russrags]

Ask Pete Townshend .... his problem was a result of years recording in the Studio with headphones and Alcohol. The Drinking caused the parts inside his ears to not do a proper job, letting the headphones do the damage. I've always heard 10 minutes on the hour of loud listening in the Studio is acceptable.

 

Russ

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-russragsdale

[Duddits]

Yes.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Prague:

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

...

Therefore, headphones are far more likely to cause hearing damage, even with their miniscule output level, than loud music from a set of speakers....

I can see how you could arrive at this conclusion, but I can't agree.

 

Sound is always "at the ear". 85dB at the ear is 85dB at the ear, regardless of the source.

After the actual SPL output, the ability to disipate that pressure becomes a factor. A set of closed can on your head that accidentally gets turned on with enough power to deliver 100 db SPL to your eardrum will be more damaging than that of nearfield monitors in a room. The air has places to dissipate that energy in the room. And as Drew alluded to, there is virtually no room between a safe level and way over the top with closed cans, whereas the output of a sound system is usually far more forgiving. More range between silent and full on.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Having had associations with people at HEAR (Hearing Awareness for Rockers) and the House Ear Institute, let me be another to testify that headphones are among the top possibile culprits for damaged hearing.

 

Folks, I know it's hard to imagine, but if you have any possibility of never using phones, you'll be better off as a result.

 

- Jeff

[Prague]

If the energy is dissipated "through the air" then it's not getting to the ear. This means a lower SPL.

 

People tend to have headphones either too loud or too soft. Either way, dB is dB. Too much from any source will damage your hearing.

 

I'll agree to just disagree.

[fantasticsound]

I didn't say that sound system db SPL is not damaging, so it seems you don't know what you're disagreeing with, Prague.

 

The ability of a system to dissipate energy is based on more than just the application of equal pressure. The larger the system, the more surface area. And outside your ear canal, there are many different materials and structures that can act as shock absorbers when SPL's increase dramatically in an instant. Your ear canal itself cannot respond as quickly as the cushions of your couch, draperies, etc. that literally absorb some of the air pressure in such a situation. It's the instantaneous changes that cause the most damage, though repeated exposure over time to even incremental increases in SPL over 90 or 95 db SPL will certainly cause damage to human hearing.

 

It's the fact that overloading your ears is so easy with headphones that makes the difference. Accidentally turn a typical sound system up near full blast and you can hit 110 db SPL or more. Do the same with a pair of closed cans on your head and 140 db SPL is not at all difficult to achieve.

 

While both are dangerous and should be guarded against, it is easier to make the mistake of turning on a headphone system at extreme levels than to do the same with your stereo. Not impossible to do with the stereo, but far less likely and more forgiving than were you listening through cans.

 

You're splitting hairs.

[David R]

I don't understand how people can blare music so loud and tolerate it, speakers or headphones. I keep my headphone listening rather quiet. Jeff, I'm sure you're right about never using phones, but I prefer doing transcription and listening, in general, over phones. Just don't be stupid and blare them. People on the bus often have their music so loud I can tell what they're listening to and hear the vocals/lyrics relatively clearly... and I'm sitting across from them.

 

Be smart.

 

David

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

If you can be sure that your phones are always at a reasonable volume (which unfortunately is much lower than most people like for music listening), you'll be fine.

 

I use phones for transcriptions of interviews, but if I have to turn them up to compete with ambient sounds, I'll switch over to speakers.

 

- Jeff

[djwayne]

According to OSHA, the time amount is also a big factor in how much damage is done to your ears. A little time might not do much damage, but a prolonged exposure can. Even running a saw requires hearing protection at one job I worked at.

 

Even in my studio, I limit the amount of listening time, even at moderate levels, to just a few minutes per hour, if that. Of course I like to pump it up occasionally, but it's a rare occurrence.

 

I'm saving my hearing as much as possible, so in my old age, I won't be deaf.

[Prague]

Yep, I know nothing.

[videoeditor1]

My wife used to work at Cable & Wireless...for 4-5 years she was a switchboard operator.

 

She's pretty much deaf in the right ear from using the company headphones...

 

Me, I'm pretty much blind in the right eye from inspecting circuit boards under a single eyepeice microscope.

 

Livemusic, I suspect if your hearing is falling off it could be...

 

1. very very bad

2. not necessarily actual LOSS of hearing.

 

Let's hope it's the latter. The sooner you test the better. Best of luck.

 

NYC Drew

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by NYC Drew:

She's pretty much deaf in the right ear from using the company headphones...

 

Me, I'm pretty much blind in the right eye

NYC Drew

Oh man Drew, I started, several times, to make a smart-assed remark from old times about being blind in one eye and can't hear out of the other one.

Had to erase them. I just couldn't put up the post because it really ain't funny though I poke fun at my hearing and sight losses all the time. I have some high level hearing loss and the cancer maintenance steroids have gotten me to the point where the cataracts got so bad I had to have artificial lenses put in both eyes. I can't see for shit anymore.

Hey, I know that's what's wrong with my mixes, I can't hear. Maybe I should take a good look at them.

[LiveMusic]

No, hearing loss is not funny at all. In fact, if I want to be down, I could let myself get depressed about this but I'm generally upbeat. This sucks. It is so bad, it is affecting me socially. It is embarrassing. I cannot understand hardly anything anyone says in a bar or restaurant anymore. I notice myself getting right in your face. And if it gets worse, my music will suffer. It's high frequency loss.

 

Like, barking dogs and stuff. I can tell there is sound but often, I will have to concentrate to tell it is a barking dog. Or where a sound is coming from. Often, can't tell which direction. If cave men had this, some badass bear would pounce on him before he figured out where it came from.

 

This is not new. I've posted about this before. Degradation has been going on for over 20 years. My dad had hearing aids. My mom has one and probably needs two. My older brother has one and has 60% loss. He is pathetic. My aunt, my grandma. And I have abused my ears over my life, I'd say. I used to shoot thousands of rounds every year with no protection. At least I don't shoot anymore. And then, of course, I've always liked my music louder than most.

 

If there is any cause I would subscribe to, a charity to promote, it would be one associated with hearing loss.

[randy clay]

In this context, are in-ear monitors the same as headphones. I am partial to in-ear monitors and I would not be too happy to hear that they are contributing to hearing loss.

 

I await the verdict......

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by randy clay:

In this context, are in-ear monitors the same as headphones. I am partial to in-ear monitors and I would not be too happy to hear that they are contributing to hearing loss.

 

I await the verdict......

If they're too loud, yes!

In many ways in-ear monitors are safer because, if you have a soundguy (person, I'll be politically correct) that knows what he's doing there won't be as much of a feedback problem.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by randy clay:

In this context, are in-ear monitors the same as headphones. I am partial to in-ear monitors and I would not be too happy to hear that they are contributing to hearing loss.

 

I await the verdict......

Absolutely! I'm a fervent supporter of ear monitors, but you absolutely must take every care to protect yourself from mistakes that can send extreme volume to your ear. If a closed-muff headphone causes damage more easily because of the closed pressure system, just imagine further decreasing the air mass between driver and your eardrum while creating a tighter seal on the space in your ear canal. IEM's must be used with extreme caution.

[seanh_race]

yes prague, the "at ear" spl is what matters.

 

the point is that it's easier to achieve high "at eat" levels, especially by accident, with headphones than with loudspeakers.

[Gulliver]

Er... What did you say?