This vintage synth thing is way out of hand

[analogika]

... my local tech recently refurbed one of my minis and explained that the official deadband fix from the moog factory service bulletins is insufficient, and that he designed an alternative.

 

Who´s that tech ?

 

 

A.C.

Stefan Huebner here in Hamburg, Germany. Warmly recommended for anything vintage, digital or analog.

 

IIRC, hes fixed some unrepairable stuff. Loves reverse-engineering early digital. Kind of freaky when you look into somebodys workshop backlog and the Synclavier, Prophet, Jupe, and PPG 2.3 are the boring, everyday items.

[The Real MC]

My Minimoog D S/N is beyond 10175,- so your mods might not be for mine.

 

I was conscious of that, I made it a point to generalize my description so that they could be applied to the newer VCO card, which I never had.

[The Real MC]

... my local tech recently refurbed one of my minis and explained that the official deadband fix from the moog factory service bulletins is insufficient, and that he designed an alternative.

 

Who´s that tech ?

 

 

A.C.

Stefan Huebner here in Hamburg, Germany. Warmly recommended for anything vintage, digital or analog.

 

IIRC, hes fixed some unrepairable stuff. Loves reverse-engineering early digital. Kind of freaky when you look into somebodys workshop backlog and the Synclavier, Prophet, Jupe, and PPG 2.3 are the boring, everyday items.

 

I have seen Stefan's work on Facebook and he is very good.

[Al Coda]

 

I was conscious of that, I made it a point to generalize my description so that they could be applied to the newer VCO card, which I never had.

 

Yes, I recognized that.

Thx again for all your great info !

 

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

Stefan Huebner here in Hamburg, Germany. Warmly recommended for anything vintage, digital or analog.

 

thank you,- found his sites and blog.

Great ressource !

 

 

A.C.

[Markyboard]

Been working on this one for Paolo of Synthmania:

 

 

 

So now that we're all feeling good about not buying vintage synths....this one's sounding pretty sweet:

 

 

 

 

Carry on.

 

[mate stubb]

You just HAD to show a Jupe 8, didn't you?

 

What a perfect example of the sum being way more than the parts. I LOVE this synth! You can hardly make a bad or ugly sound with it.

[The Real MC]

And for the ULTIMATE way out of hand... an ebay seller is now peddling an OB-6 for $5999 which you can buy NEW TODAY at retail of $3495

 

Oberheim OB-6 for $5999!

[RABid]

That is one of the two synths I always wanted and never owned. Jupiter 8 and Prophet 5. I do have a Prophet 6 and a System 8. Good sound, but somehow just not the same.

[Markyboard]

You can hardly make a bad or ugly sound with it.

 

That's one of the few things I don't like about it.

[Doerfler]

You can hardly make a bad or ugly sound with it.

 

That's one of the few things I don't like about it.

 

[Quai34]

Jupiter 8 and Prophet 5, I was too young to get them, when I started to work, it was the year of the D50, 1986....

But yes, in reminds me my 15's...

[Markyboard]

You can hardly make a bad or ugly sound with it.

 

That's one of the few things I don't like about it.

 

 

Ah yes...nor the drum sounds.

[Marzzz]

[MarkyBoard] just HAD to show a Jupe 8, didn't you?

 

What a perfect example of the sum being way more than the parts. I LOVE this synth! You can hardly make a bad or ugly sound with it.

Now that I have my Minimoog Reissue, if there was one synth I would really love to see re-done properly, it would be the Jupiter 8.

[The Real MC]

You can hardly make a bad or ugly sound with it.

 

That's one of the few things I don't like about it.

 

Not what I'd grab for piano sounds either

[RudyS]

You can hardly make a bad or ugly sound with it.

 

That's one of the few things I don't like about it.

 

Not what I'd grab for piano sounds either

 

Of course. Everybody would take a Nord Lead over a J8 for pianos!

[J. Dan]

Since this has migrated into such territory..... My very first purchase was a used Korg Polysix from my brother. Now at that time of course there were many better polysynths - it was one of the first affordable ones with patch storage. Things at that time were entering the digital age and sample memory was limited and expensive. Even the DX7 which started more accurately reproducing some sounds was out of my reach, I got a Casio CZ-1 and a VZ-8M which expanded things a bit, including into EP territory. But in order to join my first cover band, the deal from the band was that I needed to buy an up to date keyboard (I still couldn't do a good piano patch and didn't even have velocity sensitivity). I agreed, they hired me, and I borrowed a D-20 (I think?) for a while annd had my eyes on a U20 though I really wanted a D70. Sales guy talked me into the JV30 which was just released and the newest. So that was my first sample playback keyboard. I later picked up a Jupiter 6 and Moog Opus 3 as well as some other stuff, but still when they were relatively cheap (compared to now).

[Markyboard]

This is one of my favorites - and the seller recently reduced the price by $6050 . Plus don't forget free round-trip airfare to Maui. How can you not jump on this?

[TomKittel]

It seems that the average used price for Oberheim Matrix 1000 modules has doubled. Not too long ago you could find them for 300 to 400 bucks. Now I see them in the 900 bucks ballpark. This increase in value might be related to the now available OS 1.20 update which made this little synth MUCH more usable. For example controller driven cutoff sweeps are now possible without any glitches or stuck notes. I have the white version and I am loving it a lot. Playing it through a good reverb truly gets you in lush analog heaven. It's a very capable and good sounding synth. To my ears the Matrix 1000 sounds better than the OB6 and it can sound very similar to the big old Oberheims.

 

https://www.untergeek.de/howto/oberheim-matrix-1000/oberheim-matrix-1000-firmware-v1-20/

[analogika]

It seems that the average used price for Oberheim Matrix 1000 modules has doubled. Not too long ago you could find them for 300 to 400 bucks. Now I see them in the 900 bucks ballpark. This increase in value might be related to the now available OS 1.20 update which made this little synth MUCH more usable. For example controller driven cutoff sweeps are now possible without any glitches or stuck notes. I have the white version and I am loving it a lot. Playing it through a good reverb truly gets you in lush analog heaven. It's a very capable and good sounding synth. To my ears the Matrix 1000 sounds better than the OB6 and it can sound very similar to the big old Oberheims.

I have both the Matrix 1000 and the Matrix 6, and I'm hard-pressed to hear a difference between the two.

 

Supposedly, they are completely identical, except for the fact that the Matrix 6 uses two separate clock circuits for tuning, while the 1000 tunes all oscillators from a single reference. Some people claim that the Matrix 6 sounds thicker due to this fact. I haven't been able to confirm.

 

I rather like them both.

[CEB]

I couldn't afford the Jupiter 8 when it was new. .... I still can't.

[PianoMan51]

Dave, Im afraid I cannot open the hatch door.

 

We have met the enemy and he is us.

[Dave Bryce]

I couldn't afford the Jupiter 8 when it was new. .... I still can't.

I had one for a while. Sold it about ten years ago. Didn't wanna be the one holding it when it broke...and found I could pretty get most of the sounds and colors I got out of it out of my more modern synths as well.

 

I know - sacrilege.

 

dB

[Rod S]

I couldn't afford the Jupiter 8 when it was new. .... I still can't.

I had one for a while. Sold it about ten years ago. Didn't wanna be the one holding it when it broke...and found I could pretty get most of the sounds and colors I got out of it out of my more modern synths as well.

 

I know - sacrilege.

 

dB

Totally beating a dead horse.. but can't this be said about most vintage analogs? That there is an alternative.

 

You can't put a prize on the fascination of holding a piece of synth history, the thrill to be tweaking the original, or whatever, but with the current wave of recent analogs from DSI, Korg, Moog and boutique manufacturers - and improvements in modeling technology, there may be no rationale to hold on to these things, even less

 

Recent story - An acquaintance recently bought a juno 106, which started showing problems after he had it for a few weeks. This guy scraped the bottom of the barrel to purchase it, and now was struggling to get it repaired.

[eric]

It pains me a little bit that I've owned TWO Jupiter 8 units that I bought when the market was extremely soft on these (early-mid '00s). I paid less for both of them than I paid new for my JX-8P in 1985. I did not keep them as other gear kept beckoning and I sold both for a nice profit but now they are nearly unobtainium at today's prices.

 

Though one did have some weird glitches and I remember helping the second buyer fund some repairs after the sale (all legit work done via a group of friends). So to the points above, unless you're Markyboard and can maintain/repair these things, I may be better off using modern alternatives.

 

I've gone more into the well of well-maintained electromechanical instruments as my keepsakes. I have a lovely console Hammond with Leslie and a spotless Yamaha CP-80 that I'll keep forever.

 

I am still yearning for some piece of vintage synthdom, but may decide to cave on the new Minimoog or similar at some point.

[The Real MC]

I couldn't afford the Jupiter 8 when it was new. .... I still can't.

I had one for a while. Sold it about ten years ago. Didn't wanna be the one holding it when it broke...and found I could pretty get most of the sounds and colors I got out of it out of my more modern synths as well.

 

I know - sacrilege.

 

dB

Totally beating a dead horse.. but can't this be said about most vintage analogs? That there is an alternative.

 

You can't put a prize on the fascination of holding a piece of synth history, the thrill to be tweaking the original, or whatever, but with the current wave of recent analogs from DSI, Korg, Moog and boutique manufacturers - and improvements in modeling technology, there may be no rationale to hold on to these things, even less

 

Recent story - An acquaintance recently bought a juno 106, which started showing problems after he had it for a few weeks. This guy scraped the bottom of the barrel to purchase it, and now was struggling to get it repaired.

 

There's a price of admission to owning vintage analogs. Not everyone is eager to join that club.

 

I've restored all of my gear, but my FVS will be the last handyman's special I take on for a long while (unless it's a Moog Modular). There comes a point when I want to spend more time MAKING music.

 

I can replicate most of my OBX and Memorymoog sounds on my Andromeda, but not all of them. Same with the DSI P6 and OB6, which I admit are pretty good. I'm still carting my OBX with the 80s Rock band for signature sounds that only the OBX can do: the filter sweeps in "1984", "Tom Sawyer", and "Too Much Time On My Hands".

 

The current stash of modern analogs are pretty good, and I can certainly appreciate most musicians not wanting to deal with repair costs of vintage gear. These alternatives didn't exist for a long time.

[Al Coda]

It seems that the average used price for Oberheim Matrix 1000 modules has doubled. Not too long ago you could find them for 300 to 400 bucks. Now I see them in the 900 bucks ballpark. This increase in value might be related to the now available OS 1.20 update ...

 

Yes, the price increase is because of the OS hack available.

Same happend to SCI Prophet-600, Roland MKS70 etc..

 

Nonetheless,- I sold 3 blackface Matrix-1000 for about EUR 450,- each some years ago and I don´t regret.

I like machines being editable from front panel and using a computer programm for the M1000 always was too cumbersome for me.

 

To my ears the Matrix 1000 sounds better than the OB6 and it can sound very similar to the big old Oberheims.

 

No, it doesn´t.

In no way does it sound like OBX, OBXa, OB-8 or even Xpander/Matrix-12.

I owned OB-8, Xpander and the 3 M1000 same time,- so I know.

But several M1000 were great for layers and detune when being filled w/ identical user patch banks.

It´s still very interesting for MIDI guitar players since the Matrix-1000 offers Oberheim Xpander like functionality for that purpose.

 

Matrix-6 and Matrix-1000 are "synth-on-a chip" design.

In fact that´s what you get in almost every DSI synth using the remake of the CEM3396 IC,- except Prophet-6 and OB-6 which are discrete solutions.

 

Anyway,- it´s all matter of taste and for sure one can make music w/ it.

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

I have both the Matrix 1000 and the Matrix 6, and I'm hard-pressed to hear a difference between the two.

 

Supposedly, they are completely identical, except for the fact that the Matrix 6 uses two separate clock circuits for tuning, while the 1000 tunes all oscillators from a single reference. Some people claim that the Matrix 6 sounds thicker due to this fact. I haven't been able to confirm.

 

I rather like them both.

 

Technically not completely identical ´cause M6 uses the "Wide Body" CEM 3396 which is harder to find than the chip-version M1000 uses.

No big deal soundwise,- if at all,- but it might be harder to repair.

 

A.C.

[Rod S]

Totally beating a dead horse.. but can't this be said about most vintage analogs? That there is an alternative.

 

You can't put a prize on the fascination of holding a piece of synth history, the thrill to be tweaking the original, or whatever, but with the current wave of recent analogs from DSI, Korg, Moog and boutique manufacturers - and improvements in modeling technology, there may be no rationale to hold on to these things, even less

 

Recent story - An acquaintance recently bought a juno 106, which started showing problems after he had it for a few weeks. This guy scraped the bottom of the barrel to purchase it, and now was struggling to get it repaired.

 

There's a price of admission to owning vintage analogs. Not everyone is eager to join that club.

 

I've restored all of my gear, but my FVS will be the last handyman's special I take on for a long while (unless it's a Moog Modular). There comes a point when I want to spend more time MAKING music.

 

I can replicate most of my OBX and Memorymoog sounds on my Andromeda, but not all of them. Same with the DSI P6 and OB6, which I admit are pretty good. I'm still carting my OBX with the 80s Rock band for signature sounds that only the OBX can do: the filter sweeps in "1984", "Tom Sawyer", and "Too Much Time On My Hands".

 

The current stash of modern analogs are pretty good, and I can certainly appreciate most musicians not wanting to deal with repair costs of vintage gear. These alternatives didn't exist for a long time.

Ok, let me pick your brains here if you'll entertain the discussion...

 

There's a financial cost and an 'effort' cost.

 

I can handle the financial cost. I just can't fathom the effort and energy to keeping it running long term - the energy of getting spare parts, finding the right tech (I seem to recall from previous posts that you're good with electronics - I'm not), looking for alternatives, researching, cleaning, replacing things like key contacts, etc.

 

I saw your post about your live setup, and I find it admirable (and daunting) to be using that gear on stage.

 

I'm sure it is gratifying to a few - like repairing vintage cars, but I think this is a select group.

 

So to my point - do you think the financial cost + energy to be spent is worth the differential you get from the sounds?

 

Not trying to be disingenuous - I'm genuinely curious.

[Piktor]

I have both the Matrix 1000 and the Matrix 6, and I'm hard-pressed to hear a difference between the two.

I could hear a difference between the two, but only in some unison patches.