Roland A88 discontinued?

[Bobby Simons]

I was shocked to see this. Apparently, I thought there was more of a market for 88-key controllers than is the case. So, Roland joins Kurz, Korg & Yamaha with NONE, unless they have a replacement in the works. Anybody know anything?

 

I became interested in trying it after seeing one person after the next play the hell out of one in all those Keyscape demos.

[stoken6]

I heard the RD64 was also being discontinued.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[tfort]

Over the last year, Roland has been very visible at the MIDI Manufacturers Association and Association of Musical Electronics Industry events publishing the new MIDI spec advancements. At some of these events, Roland, Korg, and Yamaha have been showing gear interoperating using some of the new profiles, such as Drawbar Organ profile and Analog Synth profile.

 

I have noted the dearth of new controllers across the manufacturers for a while, and my conclusion is that they have all been aware of the new updates to the MIDI spec and have been waiting to introduce new controllers until the spec has been announced and approved.

 

Hopefully that means new controllers have been in development for a while and will be introduced at NAMM. A less optimistic possibility is that they were waiting to develop instruments until the new MIDI changes were adopted, and are now working on new designs.

 

I think the fact that older controllers are now being discontinued is an indication that there are new controllers coming soon..

[allan_evett]

This is not too surprising. The stage-oriented controller market is very specialized and shrinking, due to the growth of home recording - vs live performance. There are fully weighted 88's from Arturia, Native Instruments and Studiologic that offer a wider palette of control choices for studio. And some of them are equally adept as the A-88 for stage; even more so for live rigs integrating computers.

[Legatoboy]

[AnotherScott]

I didn't really see the point of the A88, once you could get a DS88 for the same price... same action, almost the same weight, and actually more knobs, sliders, and buttons that send MIDI than the A88 has. (You don't have much flexibility in defining what they do, but if you're using a VST system, you can define that stuff on the receiving end.) Plus you get a bunch of built-in sounds as a free bonus!

[Bobby Simons]

This is not too surprising. The stage-oriented controller market is very specialized and shrinking, due to the growth of home recording - vs live performance. There are fully weighted 88's from Arturia, Native Instruments and Studiologic that offer a wider palette of control choices for studio. And some of them are equally adept as the A-88 for stage; even more so for live rigs integrating computers.

This is how I see it as well. 25- and 37-key controllers fly off the shelves, no one is pounding out much piano repertoire in their bedroom studios.

 

I've tried both the Arturia and NI controllers, they are not for me. I had pretty much decided to order a Studiologic SL88 Grand and a Roland A-88 from Sweetwater, choose one and send the other back.

Another option is to overhaul my Yamaha KX88 if feasible - I'm bringing it in today for evaluation.

[Bobby Simons]

I didn't really see the point of the A88, once you could get a DS88 for the same price... same action, almost the same weight, and actually more knobs, sliders, and buttons that send MID than the A88 has. (You don't have much flexibility in defining what they do, but if you're using a VST system, you can define that stuff on the receiving end.) Plus you get a bunch of built-in sounds as a free bonus!

Is it really the same action? I played one too briefly to get a feel.

[Reezekeys]

I didn't really see the point of the A88, once you could get a DS88 for the same price... same action, almost the same weight, and actually more knobs, sliders, and buttons that send MID than the A88 has. (You don't have much flexibility in defining what they do, but if you're using a VST system, you can define that stuff on the receiving end.) Plus you get a bunch of built-in sounds as a free bonus!

Is it really the same action? I played one too briefly to get a feel.

The Roland website seems to say that they do have the same action both are described as "Ivory Feel-G."

 

Yea, same weight, almost same price, why not get the Juno? It's a little bigger though, if that makes a difference in the shleprosy factor.

[AnotherScott]

I didn't really see the point of the A88, once you could get a DS88 for the same price... same action, almost the same weight, and actually more knobs, sliders, and buttons that send MID than the A88 has. (You don't have much flexibility in defining what they do, but if you're using a VST system, you can define that stuff on the receiving end.) Plus you get a bunch of built-in sounds as a free bonus!

Is it really the same action? I played one too briefly to get a feel.

That's a good question. According to the specs, they are both "Ivory Feel G with escapement" so in terms of marketing, Roland suggests no difference. But according to this thread, the DS88 seems to be a newer, improved version despite no change in nomenclature:

 

https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4767

 

Come to think of it, while I've never played an A88, the DS88 did feel better to me compared to what I remembered of one of the old models I played (either FP-4F or FP50) which also had the Ivory Feel G with escapement.

 

 

[MAJUSCULE]

You'd think they'd keep it alive if only to have Anomalie play it all over the world...

[AnotherScott]

I was just thinking... within the last year, Roland introduced 2.0 system updates for both the FA and the DS, both including enhancements to their MIDI functionality. I wonder whether that was related to the phasing out of the A88, i.e. they wanted to add more MIDI functionality to their existing low cost 88s since they would no longer have any other low cost 88 controller available; or conversely, the DS/FA could have originally been kept more MIDI-minimal because Roland wanted to minimize overlapping the A88 market. (Or maybe one thing had nothing to do with the other...)

[EscapeRocks]

I used to GAS all the time for the latest and greatest 88 note controller. Most likely due to being as tech geek who likes this stuff.

 

Every time I would think about the Roland A-88, Arturia Keylab 88, Komplete Kontrol S88, etc., I would come back to reality and fiscal sense.

 

In my arsenal of boards, I have a great 88 note keyboard that is a great controller; my Casio PX-5S. It meets my needs as being lightweight, and a great piano feel (to me...subjective..). It's 10lbs lighter than the Roland A88.

 

I get the bonus of it being a good backup as well with all the built in sounds.

With my Keylab 61 up top with all the knobs buttons and sliders, I have a good MainStage rig.

 

With all the 88 note piano actions boards that are out these days with built in sounds, as mentioned in other posts here, perhaps the market for controller only boards are a hard sell.

[AnotherScott]

With all the 88 note piano actions boards that are out these days with built in sounds, as mentioned in other posts here, perhaps the market for controller only boards are a hard sell.

Yeah... I'd say the 88-key controller market needs some combination of (a) great action and/or (b) great control surface and/or © maybe super light weight for gigging. As I see it, the A-88 went 0-for-3.

 

ETA: Okay, 4th possibility, if it has none of those things... dirt cheap. So, 0-for-4.

[ElmerJFudd]

Opinions on the Ivory Feel G w/ Escapement vs TP-40 and vs TP-100 as they appear in the current Studio Logic SL controllers.

 

Also, I am impressed with size and weight of the Doepfer LMK2+ and 4+, particularly with TP-40 rather than TP-100 on board. Anyone own one of these and using with a Laptop or Module/Desktop setup? How are they for acoustic piano playing?

[EscapeRocks]

I can't speak towards the TP board, but my old FA-08 with the Ivory Feel G w/Escapement was a great board...agin my subjective opinion.

 

Of all the boards I owned, it felt closest to my 1973 Steinway "L"

 

I have found people either really like it or really hate it

 

I sold it when I finally went VST/AU only, and didn't want to lug around the weight.

 

Other than that, it was a fine board for piano

[MojoGuyPan]

I was shocked to see this.

 

Are you really going to shed a tear over the A88 going away? There are so many other 88-key MIDI controllers out there that are better. Studiologic has several and you can get the same keybed with sounds for the same price if you are in love with the action, which I am not.

 

Likewise you've got Kawai, Casio, Korg Kross etc.

 

I was shocked to see that they still made them. There is no market for 88 key MIDI controllers. The people that want them are pianists and they want something legit like the VPC-1 or MP11 to trigger sounds. No one wants an 88 with a crap action.

 

The real market for these cheap controllers is the 49 key variety. This is the ideal size for the masses of snot-nosed, mouth-breathing, 9th graders making beats and tracks with GarageBand. Basically its just used to enter notes into the computer.

 

I've never seen anyone gigging with something like that. Full sized MIDI controllers are pretty much obsolete at this point as the prices of cheap workstations are so low you may as well get the board that has the sounds even if you don't plane to use them. It's no 1992 anymore where the cost difference made controllers a sensible option. Now you'd have to be a sucker to buy something like an A88.

 

The Studiologic controllers are viable because they are so inexpensive around $400 but the A88 costs as much as a real synth, it a freaking grand!? What's the point? Are you that amazed by the D-Beam?

 

 

[zephonic]

You'd think they'd keep it alive if only to have Anomalie play it all over the world...

 

Dude is sick, but I doubt he'd be hurting much without an A-88.

 

 

With all the 88 note piano actions boards that are out these days with built in sounds, as mentioned in other posts here, perhaps the market for controller only boards are a hard sell.

Yeah... I'd say the 88-key controller market needs some combination of (a) great action and/or (b) great control surface and/or © maybe super light weight for gigging. As I see it, the A-88 went 0-for-3.

 

 

This. If you can buy a Yamaha MX88 for the same money, why would you buy a controller that is wider, with no sounds, no extended control features, and weighs more?

 

 

[Bobby Simons]

I don't need it to have sounds and don't care what it weighs. What I REALLY want is the Kawai VPC1. All that has is an on-off switch, no sounds, and weighs 65 lbs. But it costs $1,849.00.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

The VPC-1 isnt not built to drag around. Youd have to case it with something serious and take care when using it for performances. Laws I ought to consider making their actions more portable than the MP11. But its hard to guage how many they would sell.

[Bobby Simons]

The VPC-1 isnt not built to drag around. Youd have to case it with something serious and take care when using it for performances. . .

It wont be moving anywhere. And my wife would be quick to point out that there are five other 88s around here (two QS8.1s, a Generalmusic Pro 2, a Yamaha KX88, and an M-Audio Keystation Pro). OK, a bit excessive, but its been a while. That stuff is all long in the tooth.

[mcgoo]

With all the 88 note piano actions boards that are out these days with built in sounds, as mentioned in other posts here, perhaps the market for controller only boards are a hard sell.

Yeah... I'd say the 88-key controller market needs some combination of (a) great action and/or (b) great control surface and/or © maybe super light weight for gigging. As I see it, the A-88 went 0-for-3.

 

ETA: Okay, 4th possibility, if it has none of those things... dirt cheap. So, 0-for-4.

 

I disagree on the action. Paired a nice piano soft synth, it's easy to be pretty expressive IMHO. Plus, for a composer studio setup, its form factor is ideal. So by your scoring method, I give it 2 for 5.

 

http://i.imgur.com/TTal8IMl.jpg

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, actions are subjective. Even among the "Ivory Feel G with escapement" boards, as I alluded to earlier, I didn't like an early one at all (FP4F, I think) , but I thought the recent DS88 was decent. Personally, I still wouldn't call it a great action, but it's not a terrible one either, and maybe for some people, it is great. (Though again, there are also those reports of the A88 not feeling as good as the DS88, too.) And you do make a good point about the shallow form factor, which can be useful in some setups, something the DS88 does not have.

[Bobby Simons]

I was shocked to see this.

 

Are you really going to shed a tear over the A88 going away? There are so many other 88-key MIDI controllers out there that are better. Studiologic has several and you can get the same keybed with sounds for the same price if you are in love with the action, which I am not. . .

 

I was shocked to see that they still made them. There is no market for 88 key MIDI controllers. The people that want them are pianists and they want something legit like the VPC-1 or MP11 to trigger sounds. No one wants an 88 with a crap action.

 

The real market for these cheap controllers is the 49 key variety. This is the ideal size for the masses of snot-nosed, mouth-breathing, 9th graders making beats and tracks with GarageBand. . .

 

I've never seen anyone gigging with something like that. Full sized MIDI controllers are pretty much obsolete at this point...

 

LOL, nice guy - thanks for your varied and valuable opinions.

 

First, I never claimed to like or have even played the A88. I said I was interested in trying it.

 

The Studiologic I mentioned is 900, not 400.

 

I am quite aware of the available options out there, and have tried many. (Korg Kross -really?)

 

I know great players gigging with 88 key controllers.

 

I never mentioned anything about a gigging instrument, I have that covered.

 

I have a couple of students in the neighborhood of the 9th grade. They breathe normally and their noses are clean. And if they keep up like theyre doing, they will blow past both of us at a very young age. I am envious of the tools at their disposal.

[Markyboard]

Dedicated controller boards put the control functions up front where as most boards with built in sounds have the controller functions buried and more limited. For guys using laptops/VIs on stage and studio rats with large midi setups, dedicated controller boards may be a better solution. I agree this comes with a price that seems illogical but sometimes people are willing to pay for the best solution for their situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Dedicated controller boards put the control functions up front where as most boards with built in sounds have the controller functions buried and more limited.

The A88 was kind of worst-of-both... no built-in sounds, but also limited/buried functions, very little real-time control. Its niche seems to be shallow depth for people who don't need much in the way of other controls or have them covered elsewhere.

 

I agree this comes with a price that seems illogical but sometimes people are willing to pay for the best solution for their situation.

Yup. Also explains the 73 and 88 key versions of the Studiologic SL Studio costing the same.

[Markyboard]

Thanks Scott - definitely wasn't trying to "defend" the A88. I can't remember why I dismissed it as a potential replacement if it were needed at some point.

[Bobby Simons]

The Physis is another Id like to take for a test spin. Same money as a VPC1, + controller heaven. Eight pedal inputs? Thats insane. But how does it feel?

[Markyboard]

The Physis is another Id like to take for a test spin. Same money as a VPC1, + controller heaven. Eight pedal inputs? Thats insane. But how does it feel?

 

I recall it being on the light side, but not bad. I owned it's predecessor the MC3000 - not sure if they retained the same keybed. I believe forum members Hardware and AlCoda have them. I also recall slow boot up time being reported but never confirmed.

[Reezekeys]

Eight pedal inputs? Thats insane.

And eight 5-pin midi outputs. Very insane!