1st gig with FOH provided (UK) - what can I expect?

[aluk]

We've got our 1st gig coming up this Summer where FOH and a sound engineer will be provided.

 

Up until now, we've provided our own amps, monitors, and PA.

 

We're using a digital mixer, I use IEMs for my keyboard and one or two of the others may possibly be using them by then.

 

We mic the guitar amp (just for monitoring). Drummer has a powered monitor, and so does the singer. All these are run from auxes on my mixer.

 

Not sure what to expect. Some questions that occur to me:-

 

For me, would I provide FOH with a keyboard feed and then try and get a line level monitor feed back into my mixer with everything minus keyboard? I can then set my own IEM mix and volume.

 

Or would we all connect into our mixer as normal for monitoring and expect the venue to provide a splitter snake for FOH? Or somewhere in between?

 

Our guitarist increases his volume on solos via a pedal. Should he do that or should we all aim for consistent volume all the way through and let FOH deal with it.

 

Same question for me - I increase by 3dB on solos. Should I do that?

 

I'll try and talk to the sound engineer well beforehand - just trying to get ahead of the game!

 

I'm sure I'll think of other questions.

 

Cheers.

[ProfD]

It really depends on several factors which include:

 

# of bands on the show

 

Whether your band is headliner opening act or somewhere in the middle

 

The nature of the gig will determine how much of your own gear you'll be able to bring and use.

 

If possible, find out in advance what type of PA system the sound company will be providing. Otherwise, the sound crew will let you all know what they're able to accommodate.

 

Personally, I would take my KB rig and a small mixer to run them through assuming the sound company may only provide one or two DIs for keys.

 

Having your own mixer allows using your IEMs especially if the sound company is unwilling to provide a monitor mix on them. You'll be lucky if they're willing to route a band mix back to your mixer.

 

The bandleader and/or manager needs to get more details about the PA set up. That will dictate what the band will be able to do.

 

Again, several variables come into play that we are not privy to here. So, without more info about the PA and gig, our advice is shooting in the dark to an extent.

 

[WesG]

Somebody is providing FOH. Are they also mixing? Are they providing monitors? If not, how will the guitar players hear your keys?

 

Tell us a lot more about your sound gear and the gig.

[aluk]

Sorry for the vagueness. We actually have a couple of gigs with sound provided, and I was trying to ask questions generically.

 

So, to be specific.

 

The 1st one is a battle of the bands event with 10 bands playing for around 20 minutes each between around 6pm and 11pm. Sound checks for each band during the morning and early afternoon "during which we can make you and your equipment sound the best, and then store it backstage."

 

They say 5 minutes swap over between bands in the evening.

 

I'm not sure what backline or monitoring they'll provide. I'll call and get more details closer to the time. If they provide a keyboard and stage monitor, then I guess job done, make the best of it.

 

If I need to bring my own keyboard, then I'll need to create a setup that can be ready to go in a couple of minutes. That's doable. but not sure about monitoring.

 

I normally just have me, and vocals in the IEMs, everything else I can hear enough through leakage.

[Reezekeys]

5 minute set change for bands? Is everyone using the same backline, or there are movable risers with stuff pre-set? If not, they're dreaming.

 

From my experience, you should have a stage plot and input list for the sound company. Make sure they see it a week or two before the gig. Someone in your band should have a conversation with someone from the sound company to make sure they have received this documentation and are cool with it. This is all assuming it's not an amateur production, in which case all bets are off. The "5 minute set change" thing is a bit of a red flag to me. Good luck.

[aluk]

I'll find out!

Thanks for the heads up on the stage plot/input list.

 

[El Lobo]

Same reaction as Reezekeys. No way 5 minute set change. It takes that long for 1 band to get offstage and the next to get on. This implies that drum kit, keyboard, and amps are all provided backline. Guitars walk on and plug in (no pedal boards? - impossible), anybody that plays wireless (guitars, horns, vocalist) is out of luck. Sounds like a guaranteed train wreck.

 

But you say sound check earlier in the day, they say "we can make you and your equipment sound the best" then store your gear backstage. They're talking about your gear, not backline. I don't see how that can work. Minimum set change between bands = 20 minutes. More if you got stragglers or divas.

 

It sure is worth talking to sound company ahead of time to find out how they imagine everything working. Providing a stage plot could make that communication much clearer. If they aren't interested in your stage plot because they will have their own stage plot, then you have some idea of what you are in for. If they say they'll do your stage plot, then 5 minute set change goes out the window,

[stoken6]

5minute changeover? The last festival I did worked to a 15min changeover. They actually did it quite cleverly:

- Two stages, one for bands (30m slot) and for solo/acoustic acts (15m slots)

- As soon as one band stopped, they would switch to the acoustic stage. That gave the departing band 5min to tear down and leave (tight, but possible given a compact rig and some determination), and their successors a 10min setup window (ditto, but ditto).

 

I would suspect that the backline company are assuming a "standard line-up" (lead singer, one or two guitars, bass, drums ). There'll be a DI box knocking around for your keys, but don't be surprised if you are offered a guitar amp to hear yourself. Monitors - could be as few as two mixes: one for the drummer, one for the frontline. If you're in midfield (as we keyboardists often are) you might be nowhere near a monitor.

 

For me, would I provide FOH with a keyboard feed and then try and get a line level monitor feed back into my mixer with everything minus keyboard? I can then set my own IEM mix and volume.

This would be the best scenario. More likely would be "I can give you FoH, or aux 1, or aux 2, into your mixer". But given the changeover time, I would be amazed if you get your own mix.

 

This is why I love my Rolls PM351. I can turn up with it to any gig, and just ask the sound crew for some kind of mix, and add myself into it. At least I can hear myself.

 

Festivals are great fun, but it's all about survival. The niceties of gigging (like a really precise soundcheck) go out of the window.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

[aluk]

Thank you for all the insightful comments. This is really helpful.

 

I've asked some questions and will report back.

 

[WesG]

My take? 5 minute changeover is nearly impossible. But if you're going to achieve it, leave the IEMs at home. Bring a powered wedge, plug your piano into the wedge and bring a DI and practice your setup a half dozen times first.

 

Use the house monitors to hear the vocals. Run your piano as hot as you can and still hear the vocals, because they're going to forget to put it in the rest of monitors.

 

It's way easier to work with a bad mix and wedges than a cobbled-together IEM system in a fast changeover festival situation.

[nadroj]

It sounds like a basic plug in and play gig. If it's all the same backline (amps, monitors, etc) the mix you get in soundcheck will likely be forgotten about and different by the time performance comes.

 

If it's a small club ditch the in ears. Soundman will deal with FOH and your monitor mix. If you need to use inears and monitor yourself do it in a way that causes as little fuss as possible. If you can give the soundman a stereo (if he's taking stereo) mix from your mixer and can adjust your own mix without effecting FOH go for it. Though from my experience gigs like that I usually just give 2 mono mixes and use the venues wedges. Not worth the fuss bringing setting up my own monitors if everyone is using the venues ones.

 

Most important thing would be to make friends with the sound guy at soundcheck. Be friendly, go over your set up and ask what his preference is re monitoring, etc. Don't be scared of being picky with your mix until you get it right.

 

I've done a lot of similar gigs with 5 minute changeovers. It's hit and miss. Do your best with what you've got and make sure you're confident enough to signal the sounman if your levels aren't right. At gigs like this the levels usually suck on stage but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it and perform well.

 

Also: at soundcheck give him all of your different sounds and levels. Eg. "Here's a piano, but I'll play you some organ. This is normal organ level, this is the level when I swell up for a solo. Is that ok? This synth sound is more piercing than the piano, let me show you it." Brief him so that there are no surprises and he'll deal with it FOH if you turn yourself up.

[El Lobo]

Most important thing would be to make friends with the sound guy at soundcheck. Be friendly, go over your set up and ask what his preference is re monitoring, etc.

Always good advice.

[CowboyNQ]

From my experience, you should have a stage plot and input list for the sound company. Make sure they see it a week or two before the gig. Someone in your band should have a conversation with someone from the sound company to make sure they have received this documentation and are cool with it.

100% agree with Reezekeys here.

 

And then on gig day, there is a small chance that you'll be dealing with someone who hasn't read your tech documents comprehensively (or at all), so your "tech manager" or whomever fulfils that role in your band should be prepared to confirm their understanding and clarify any areas of confusion.

[Dr88s]

It sounds like a basic plug in and play gig. If it's all the same backline (amps, monitors, etc) the mix you get in soundcheck will likely be forgotten about and different by the time performance comes.

 

Amen to that.

 

I do a Battle type show every year and I really wonder why we even bother soundchecking as the levels on stage at showtime are nothing like we painstakingly set earlier that morning.

 

+1 on speaking with the soundperson and getting them a list of your inputs as early as possible.

[SteveQB]

Don't disagree with anything that has been said.

 

My additional advice would be to simplify your setup as much as possible and pre-loom/wire what you can off stage. Also make sure your cables are good and if you have a way to check your setup before it goes to FOH this helps.

 

Last year my band played a local festival. A 20 min changeover on a well managed stage (last band went off back left with storage to the left, new band on back right with lay down area on the right, 2 stage guys - one helping each band etc). Come line test time couldn't get a sound from my keys at FOH. As is often the case, and I expect will be the case at the battle of the band, the keyboard channels hadn't been used by most of the previous bands - I wouldn't be surprised if the inputs are re-patched by the time you get to them. Sound guy scrabbling around trying different fixes whilst shouting to say the problem must be my end. I knew it wasn't as I have an IEM tap point just before it goes FOH. Gave me confidence to say no sound is definitely leaving me. Turned out channel routing was an issue.

 

We lost a further 5 mins of our line check as our guitarist had a faulty cable!

[Dr88s]

Another +1 on simplifying your setup.

 

When I do my "Battle" type show, everything stays pre-wired and the stagehands just have to move my entire rig (two tiered stand, each with a keyboard, and a pedalboard containing my pedals, mixer, and DIs) on a dolly and settle it down. That way, I only have to plug in my power bar to the venue's mains and their snake into my DI. The less wiring you have to handle at changeover, the smoother it is bound to be.

[CowboyNQ]

Another +1 on simplifying your setup.

And another +1 here.

 

In the classic rock covers outfit I play in, my normal rig is K&M 18880 with digital piano on the bottom, synth/workstation on the top, mixer, personal powered monitor, running everything in stereo to FOH.

 

However for a scenario like OP's it would be one 61 key synth/workstation, an x stand, run in mono to a DI box then FOH, no monitor (I do make sure I'm in foldback somewhere).

[area51recording]

What to expect? Well, if it's anything like similar situations I have been in, you can expect little to no sound from your keys (bass/drums/geetar are the only thing that count to most sound guys), if they ask you what you want in your monitor you will most likely get everything EXCEPT what you asked for, as well as the occasional scream of feedback loud enough to make you both deaf AND sterile.....sorry if that sounds bitter, maybe I've just had extremely bad luck....

[Stokely]

I play "small" versions of multi-band events sometimes (ie, not festivals or anything) and these things have been true every time:

 

- sound company has mics, stands and provides wedge monitors.

- they don't provide a keyboard, even if other instruments/drums are provided.

- Likewise, I've never seen a keyboard amp or speaker (other than the monitors) even when guitar/bass amps are present

- Almost always, they provide a mono line with a direct box for you to plug the keys output into

 

 

I bring a small one-keyboard setup to these if time is tight. One powered speaker for an amp. My kurzweil has two sets of output, one mirroring the other, and the (L) is actually summed mono--I run one of these to the direct box, the other to my speaker. Sometimes the monitors are good enough that I don't need it. I bring a power strip with a long cable on it just in case. I also bring a direct box despite what I wrote above--once they didn't have a passive DI for me to use (???) but fortunately I had mine.

 

My goal is to only bug the sound company with "important" stuff because they are generally running around like chickens with no heads at these things...and I want them to make sure I'm heard by the band and I can hear them. Keep things simple in short.

 

Even if the sound guys seem like douchebags--be nice to them It's kind of their default state IMO. You are in their hands and they get crapped on by impatient wanna-be rock stars. We are courteous and the look of surprise on their faces sometimes is hilarious It's a very tough gig for them and while there are some true aholes, often it's just stress and frustration.

 

A rock-n-roller cart has been great for these since often parking close to the stage is an issue.

[Reezekeys]

Not to throw more water on all this but I second everybody's cautions. I would go minimal on the setup. If you can just give a tech person one or two 1/4" cords and be done with it you'll make things easier for everybody. If your rig has something self-contained so that you can hear your keys OK, be thankful for that. I wouldn't start bugging a monitor engineer about what you need to hear. Everybody has their own wish list for a monitor mix and a multi-band extravaganza is not the place to get demanding about that.

 

I also notice in your op the mention of a digital mixer. I would be careful if you use wifi to control anything with that on a gig with multiple bands. Same with wireless IEMs. Simple is much better! A few wedges and soldier through it - a few minutes and it's history, on to the next gig!

[aluk]

Thanks for all the experiences - I'm getting the idea of what we've let ourselves in for!

 

My normal setup then is a 4u rack bag with a mini PC as a VST host, portable monitor, band mixer, IEM amp, monitor, DMX controller, heavy K&M stand etc. etc. etc. I use a Roland FP-30 as a single board.

 

Current plan after all the comments is to leave all that at home, and just take my FP-30 and use the internal sounds. It only has a headphone out, so I'll take a DI box, my lightweight K&M 18880 stand if needed, and possibly a QSC K10 as a monitor and some power and audio cables.

 

re:WiFi - I'll not take the mixer to this one, but for normal gigs I have everything on 5GHz and nothing critical stops working if it drops out.

 

I have a rock-n-roller cart also.

[Stokely]

Yes, I forgot to mention--I normally use IEMs when we run sound--I don't consider it at these gigs. Mine are wired but I simply don't trust what they'd send me. Plus they typically either have wired up passive wedges or powered ones daisy-chained without an easy way to get me a mix (presuming they could output one easily directly from their board, open question there). I just don't bother.

 

I'd go in with the paranoid thought that it will be hard to hear "correctly"--pick tunes that you know well so there is no uncertainty and that you can play in your sleep if at all possible. If you can't hear the guitar after the drums kick in, hopefully that's ok...you know he's there, and you know your part well enough to carry on.

[aluk]

I'd go in with the paranoid thought that it will be hard to hear "correctly"--pick tunes that you know well so there is no uncertainty and that you can play in your sleep if at all possible. If you can't hear the guitar after the drums kick in, hopefully that's ok...you know he's there, and you know your part well enough to carry on.

 

I'm going to print this out and give it to the other band members, and we'll use it as our guiding thought! :-)

[MojoGuyPan]

Expect to be disappointed. You're never going to get the mix you want.

[WesG]

No possibly K10. DEFINITELY K10, and a way to plug it into your FP30 while also sending signal to the house. If you lose yourself in the mix after sound check, turn up the K10.

 

Never ever ever ever rely on a foreign sound man in a hurry for monitoring your instrument. Good chance there will be only one monitor mix, and if so, it will be vox-only.

[CowboyNQ]

I wouldn't start bugging a monitor engineer about what you need to hear.

Another snippet I support wholeheartedly.

 

I never worry about the "mix" at these kind of shows. I just make sure I can hear myself somewhere.

[CowboyNQ]

Never ever ever ever rely on a foreign sound man in a hurry for monitoring your instrument. Good chance there will be only one monitor mix, and if so, it will be vox-only.

Agree with that first sentence Wes. Can't say I've ever encountered the second one (vox-only monitor mix).

 

I'm a big subscriber to the "have your own monitor" theory, but not for 30 minute gigs. Just can't be bothered with it these days. I'm happy to take my chances and have low expectations. Only once have I had ZERO monitoring from the soundy, and no-one died.

[Reezekeys]

I once did a festival gig and the monitor person fed me my keys after I explicitely told him not to since I mix my keys into my in-ears myself. His send was phase flipped from what my rig was giving me. You can guess the results.

[aluk]

Update:- We've been told that drum shells are provided, but we'll need to bring cymbals, snare. We'll also need to bring any guitar/bass/keyboard stage amps and our instruments. Main PA & monitoring (no more detail yet) is provided by them.

 

So I think we'll make sure we're ready to have our 30 minute setlist halved, and adjust as necessary as we start playing.

 

I'll take the K10 for my own monitor.

 

Thanks for all the anecdotes and hard won experience shared on the thread.