Why are arranger keyboards popular in Asia?

[Music Bird]

I've noticed a lot of Asian music videos that have an arranger keyboard, mostly a Yamaha PSR3000 or PSRs710 (or other PSR model) or Korg PA50SD/300/500/600/800/900 What makes them popular over there? That is particularly prevalent in music that is just backed by keyboards.

[TAdorno]

Price and availability? Trade deals between Japan and the rest of Asia?

 

Perhaps in parts of S Korea, but outside of Japan you aren't going to find a similar "middle class" that you generally find in N America and Europe. That effects disposable income. Nords are kinda expensive here...who's going to afford one of those in China, Malaysia, Philippines?

 

And aesthetics matter and are culturally determined. Maybe they like the arranger aspect of them somewhat makes them like "home organs". Heck...it is true that the accordion is really popular in N Korea. And it seems to be popular in the most cheesy "Lady of Spain" way, not in the ways we would generally see as "cool".

 

It comes down to taste and taste is not universal. Im sure you could point to the emerging middle class in China or to whatever they have in Singapore and say "yes...but you'ld think someone would at least use an older virus module!"...and maybe those folks are there, just not international or even national. But different folks in different cultures do sometimes like different sorts of sounds or even the look of different instruments.

 

I remember back in the 90s trading CD's with Brazilian friends so I could learn more about that music. An Argentine friend wanted to share Argentinian rock stuff with us so she loaned me a stack of CDs of some well known Argentinian bands. 1) good god it was awful. Just bad rock and roll. 2) the sound/recording quality was not good and remember thinking that I had CD's from Cuba that simply sounded 1000x's better (it helped that the music was better too). BUt it kind of comes down to taste.

 

Our musical tastes are generally formed through the European Classical and Folk Traditions mixed to varying degrees with African traditions. I mean that in a fundamental way...primal even. And this would apply to India how? And our visual and consumer tastes are created through other sorts of methods, but still culturally based.

 

Those boards have speakers too, right? Maybe they like them in order to compensate for their mixing/monitoring strategies for onstage volume. It doesnt matter if "we" think there are better ways to approach that issue

 

Or its simply that its what those folks think is cool.

[Adam Burgess]

Very popular here in the UAE and surrounding countries. The Arabic and Oriental scale versions are part of the reason why. Here's a couple more observations from me...

 

They sound pretty good these days. Me and a mate spent an afternoon auditioning a good few. I liked the Korgs best for sure, but I've been Korg since Trinity days. The Roland EA7(?) was pretty great value and sounded lovely. Liked the layout and dual screens. If only the Kronos had a 'bit' of that in it... would've helped me a few times!

 

Bit of a lull in 5 piece band work here at the mo, so duos are doing well. Either hipster guitarists with a singer for pubs or keys plus singer for wine bars and restaurants. Arrangers are great for this, obviously.

 

The models as you mentioned... The bands, for example, in Indian or Arabic restaurants/hotels here (as well as many venues because of 'permissions' and licensing issues) are resident bands tied to the venue 6/7 nights per week. The pay isn't great but accommodation:/meals are provided. The likes of the PA4X etc are beyond the means of many but I've seen s few around. Yammy S or PSRs, the little Roland one, or the smaller Korgs are prevalent.

[RandyFF]

An arranger makes an excellent hobby board. Even with the differences that come with cultural taste in music, there's a lot to be said for the arranger format in general, for its accessibility for lightly trained or 'enthusiast' musicians.

 

I had the PSR 3000 ages ago, as well as a Korg PA50, both very fun boards, with great onboard speakers. Nothing like perfectly placed stereo speakers directed towards your ears!

 

Recently picked up a Casio MZ-X500, their latest top of the line arranger, $1,100. Am pretty blown away with the quality of sounds, the absolute ease of use in spite of having many many capabilities, and the 16 velocity sensitive pads that do all kinds of things.

 

I've had 3 arrangers over time and have never used the arranger capabilities hardly at all, and find myself with the X500 using it more and more, not the least of why is you can make your own patterns for auto accompaniment, arpeggios, phrases and samples that can be triggered by the pads, and many different ways to have your playing augmented.

 

All of which to say, i don't know why the Asian market is prone to arranger boards (other than the inherent capability to act as some kind of karaoke band), just that arranger boards are getting better over time, including the quality of the auto-accompaniment patterns. I always viewed it as an extra i didn't need, and now am actually using it at times, esp. for creating rhythmic backing without the auto-chords playing.

[Mark Schmieder]

I see them all over the place here in the Bay Area, at casual restaurant gigs in particular, where the volume level of live mariachi horns and/or the labour cost is not always appreciated or budgeted.

 

As a result, it never occurred to me to associate their popularity with a specific region, genre, or large-umbrella ethnic group.

 

I have played in bands that used them, and ones that stuck their noses up at them. I used to be in the latter camp, but no more. It's too ironic, as they usually have the same (or similar) sounds anyway (e.g. MOTIF and derivatives vs. Tyros and lower-end Yamaha arranger keyboards; similarly with Korg).

 

My jazz bandleader, before he passed, had switched over to them for almost all gigs, because there were more dedicated buttons and thus less room for error in a dark room or in the heat of the moment.

 

My only real complaint anymore, therefore, is about the lousy keybeds on most of them. But I think there are a few models that sport semi-weighted keys, if not fully weighted ones or 72-88 key interfaces.

[stoken6]

I saw quite a few of them in the Swiss ski resorts. Lunchtime on the piste restaurants, evenings in the bars. I figured it was a cost thing - pay one muso, not four.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[BuckW]

Good fun way to introduce kids to music.

 

A family acoustic piano requires more love and commitment to get a payoff.

[Synthoid]

Lunchtime on the piste restaurants

 

I ate there once. Lousy service. It piste me off.

 

 

[pjd]

 

Hi --

 

Yamaha in particular have produced many arranger expansion packs which are customized for specific regional musical genres. Check the Yamaha Musicsoft site if you're curious. This puts them ahead of the competition in the Balkans, for example.

 

The MOX6 is my main gig instrument, but I use a PSR-S950 as a practice machine or an instrument to work out ideas. The MOX6 and S950 share a lot of sounds, samples and effects. I've taken a close look at both the Tyros 5 and the Montage, too. (GAS!) In several areas (e.g., Seattle strings) Montage just caught up to the T5. In the usual twist of Yamaha fate, the S- and Tyros series have a Reface-like drawbar mode while the Motif and MOX lagged.

 

What makes a pro machine? The player. ;-)

 

All the best -- pj

 

[I-missRichardTee]

I own two of these pro consumer pieces of you know what. I have a sort of love mostly hate relationship with my tyros 4. The pos volume sliders are the worst in my experience

Not the best sound quality ... minimal editing of sounds.. eg I cannot change the decay of basses to something remotely like a real bass. And a retail of $5000+

love hate, more hate. I am told Germany and England are the places where they are popular. Retirement age people who want to have some fun, I spose.

[MorayM]

Very popular here in the UAE and surrounding countries. The Arabic and Oriental scale versions are part of the reason why.

 

That's the impression I was under. Support for unusual tunings in some of the other instruments mentioned is mixed at best.

 

I am told Germany and England are the places where they are popular. Retirement age people who want to have some fun, I spose.

 

Yeah, I see them from time to time on the pub circuit here. Usually solo or duo, doing easily listening and the odd standard. Not my cup of tea but they sound alright (better than MIDI files and a Sound Canvas at any rate) and there's usually a good audience. At least it's not a backing track!

 

Interestingly (or not) when I've seen them they're always being used by ages 55+, the younger musicians are always on acoustic guitar or piano (99/100 a Nord!)

[Aidan]

As some of you are aware, I have my eye on this market. Maybe it's because I'm now within the age bracket Moray specified. But Adam's point about lack of work for anything above a duo on the local pub and club circuit is another one. We get the guitar/vocal duos in abundance here too, far fewer piano/vocal. Part of that is that guitars can more naturally propel 'dancy' material. They also appeal to frustrated orchestrators/arrangers like myself. It's not all Girl From Ipanema played one-finger to Modern Rhumba #2. Just a few examples of these instruments' range:

 

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[Synthoid]

Some great examples there, Aidan.

 

But then I remember the price tags of theses things... they must generate serious high-profits for the manufacturers.

 

 

 

 

 

[RABid]

I always wondered if the arranger keyboard popularity is why Roland designed the JP-80 patch system like an arranger.

[Aidan]

I always wondered if the arranger keyboard popularity is why Roland designed the JP-80 patch system like an arranger.

 

It was certainly designed more as a specifically performance-oriented instrument, which is why it featured those 'piston' presets under the keys.

[marczellm]

Hungary here. Arrangers are the default meaning of the word "synth" for many people. It's what a father will buy for his kid to have fun at home and maybe in the high school band. They consider around $400 for an entry level keyboard which only used older (90s) arrangers can satisfy. For home practice, it seems unnecessary to spend extra on a speaker system; also DP-s are more expensive.

 

Wedding bands also almost exclusively use arrangers, so that they can spare the drummer and/or the bassist. (It's even funnier when they do have a drummer who cannot play and mimes to the MIDI track.)

 

What I can't wrap my head around is that some music schools for children have separate programmes for piano and arranger keyboard. While some children are learning proper technique, entry level classical pieces but next to no theory, others are taught proper harmony but can only play one-finger melodies with left-hand chords.

[El Lobo]

Price of basic arranger boards has come way down. I use a cheap Casio one that's set up next to my desk and computer so I can just turn to it, flip the switch, and onboard speakers let me work out ideas, chord changes, whatever. I don't use the arranger functions it's just a keyboard with a decent stereo piano sound and some organ and EP sounds.

 

I had one of the early (really expensive) arranger boards many years ago. I sold it to a Middle Eastern man for nearly what I paid for it. He wanted those other rhythms and tunings that I had no use for.

 

I see them all over the place here in the Bay Area, at casual restaurant gigs in particular, where the volume level of live mariachi horns and/or the labour cost is not always appreciated or budgeted.

Yes, I've seen them around the SF Bay Area too. A pro player I know plays one in solo, duo, band gigs because it gives him the flexibility to play in any situation. Arranger boards used to sound cheesy, but they've gotten much better. Solo gigs (or duo with vocals) can sound pretty good using all the features of an arranger board. I would never gig with one because it's not my thing, but I've seen other players gig them and sound good.

[Mills Dude]

All of a sudden, last night, I was GAS-ing for an arranger keyboard. I spend about 50% of my time in Shenzhen, PRC. Just over the border from Hong Kong.

 

I've seen a lot of arrangers, mostly Yamaha PSR series, over here. Mostly in duos, but I've have also seen keyboardists use in full bands.

 

I've always held my nose up to them and considered them kind of cheap consumer boards. But that's just my own arrogance.

 

Last night, in a Thai restaurant, was a duo, keyboardist with a female single. The keyboard player was using a PSR-S950 and he sounded great. They were playing a lot of latin infused western pop, and he was using that Yamaha rhodes sound a lot. But it sounded very nice and had some good bark when he dug in. He also took some solos using the Sax sounds and acoustic guitar sounds. The Sax was a little cheezy, but others sounded pretty good.

 

So now I'm gassing a bit, but I didn't realize these a little on the expensive side. Also disappointed in the keybeds and sizes. Korg PA3x and PA4x do come in 76 key versions. The Yamaha's look to be all 61 keys, except for the Tyros which offers a 76.

 

How's the keybed on these instruments? I assume synth action. Is it a quality action?

 

What are the arranger options for using a PC/Mac instead?

[kbrkr]

I play an arranger keyboard on solo gigs; cocktail hours, wedding ceremonies, and for rehearsing. Sometimes with a style following me, sometimes with a backing track, sometimes with just the drums and Left hand Bass, other times just the keyboard. It's a pretty versatile beauty.

 

I use the Korg Pa4x Pro 76. The sounds are great, you can make styles from a midi file, it has dual MP3 Players, it has onboard TC Helicon Vocal processor, etc, etc.

 

They also just released an OS version which adds the KAOSS for doing Trance music. Check it out!

 

These are not your grand mothers' "Om Pah Pah" keyboards any longer.

 

They Pa4x has a great weighted synth action. Not as heavy as the Kronos. Korg just added the Italian Grand Piano to the Sound set. I'm waiting for them to add it to the Kronos as it sounds Great!

 

It's not a Piano players action, but it's a great balance between synth/piano.

[I-missRichardTee]

I play an arranger keyboard on solo gigs; cocktail hours, wedding ceremonies, and for rehearsing. Sometimes with a style following me, sometimes with a backing track, sometimes with just the drums and Left hand Bass, other times just the keyboard. It's a pretty versatile beauty.

 

I use the Korg Pa4x Pro 76. The sounds are great, you can make styles from a midi file, it has dual MP3 Players, it has onboard TC Helicon Vocal processor, etc, etc.

 

They also just released an OS version which adds the KAOSS for doing Trance music. Check it out!

 

These are not your grand mothers' "Om Pah Pah" keyboards any longer.

 

They Pa4x has a great weighted synth action. Not as heavy as the Kronos. Korg just added the Italian Grand Piano to the Sound set. I'm waiting for them to add it to the Kronos as it sounds Great!

 

It's not a Piano players action, but it's a great balance between synth/piano.

 

I own a beat up psr 900 and a tyros 4. The architecture is difficult. i use it for on the fly changes... changing volumes, tempos, drum grooves, sounds etc. It doesn't seem to be designed for this.

Tyros does not have speakers built in the way the less expensive ones, do.

Because of that drum machine ( sort of ) in it , I find it useful, but frustrating too.

 

How about the Korg you own, is it better suited for on the fly changes during a song?

[kbrkr]

Yes, I've owned the Tyros 5 and it's musicfinder function is not very useful. The Korg has a Songbook and Setlist function that can create a library of songs and then a setlist of those songs and then SoundSets Which are like registrations which can setup the keyboard to have splits, sounds, layers, etc. So if you pick a song in the setlist, it will setup the keyboard appropriately. The Korg is much deeper in that it allows you much more control over functions and settings. You can also create multi-samples and custom sounds down to the Oscillator and Effects levels.

 

Check out this Jazz Trio sound Video: