delta = maj7

[zephonic]

In The Netherlands I learned to use the delta (or triangle) as symbol for a maj7 chord. When I came to LA I stopped doing it because it seemed to confuse a lot of people, so I assumed it was a Dutch or European thing (like the infamous b10 vs. #9 debate we had here a few years ago).

 

But now I just found out its use goes back at least as far as Coltrane, and most likely it originated in the USA after all, which makes me wonder why its use isn't more widespread?

 

http://peterspitzer.blogspot.com/2015/09/coltrane-and-delta-symbol-for-major.html

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Aai0OGRzDyU/VfpW3lgbNJI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/Lo9s78QgAVw/s1600/Naima.jpg

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

I use it all the time. When I do lead sheets I prefer triangle for major, and minus for minor.

[yamoho]

Not sure where I learned, but I also always understood that symbol (delta) to mean Maj7, but then, I'm from Florida.....

[Bucktunes]

On handwritten charts, the triangle can easily be mistaken for an "0" for diminished if not drawn clearly. Definitely a problem if you're sight reading these charts.

 

However, I use it on charts that I write for myself (since I can read my own chicken scratch! ) or charts in iReal Pro.

[El Lobo]

Yes, it's an old jazz chart thing. I vaguely remember a discussion about this on the Sax On The Web forum. Some people learned to read old charts with the delta, younger people learned to read maj7. There are other symbol differences too. Minus (-) for min, plus (+) for aug, degree symbol for dim, etc.

 

I learned to read both but younger people learned to read min, maj7, dim. etc. They say it's less confusing and easier to sight read. Sometimes the delta can be confused as a badly hand written o.

[Dave Ferris]

On handwritten charts, the triangle can easily be mistaken for an "0" for diminished if not drawn clearly. Definitely a problem if you're sight reading these charts. :freak

 

Yes you have to be careful and make sure the triangle doesn't collapse into a circle.

 

I've used triangles for the longest time and still do, although I don't write many charts like I used to.

 

The biggest problem I have with the European kids at the school is they draw the line through the 7. Man that drives me nuts for sight reading !!!

 

They're constantly reminded not to do that but I guess it's just an ingrained habit of writing.

[cedar]

I thought it was standard.

[Threadslayer]

They taught it at Berkeley when I was there in the 1970s

Also the circle with a line through it for "half-diminished"

Which is a whole lot faster to write than min7b5

 

[ElmerJFudd]

I first ran into the delta and dashes etc. on the very oldest of yellowed sheets given to me by a neighbor I grew up next to who had kept HIS father's charts. So that goes back at least 2 generations. It's been around a while.

[Bill Spencer]

I was taught at NTSU not to use delta, circles, etc, because, as stated above, too error prone when sight reading. Also, no M=major and m=minor for the same reason. Instead, Ma or Maj and mi or min. No need to get into a big discussion, I don't think there's a right answer. Whatever works to communicate the harmony is OK by me.

[Bill Spencer]

I thought it was standard.

 

IF ONLY there was one 'standard' for chord symbols!

[Bill Spencer]

In The Netherlands I learned to use the delta (or triangle) as symbol for a maj7 chord. When I came to LA I stopped doing it because it seemed to confuse a lot of people, so I assumed it was a Dutch or European thing (like the infamous b10 vs. #9 debate we had here a few years ago).

 

But now I just found out its use goes back at least as far as Coltrane, and most likely it originated in the USA after all, which makes me wonder why its use isn't more widespread?

 

http://peterspitzer.blogspot.com/2015/09/coltrane-and-delta-symbol-for-major.html

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Aai0OGRzDyU/VfpW3lgbNJI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/Lo9s78QgAVw/s1600/Naima.jpg

 

 

What's an "Eb petal"? I can see that would fit in Coltrane's "African Flower", but in "Naima" it should be "Eb PEDAL..."

 

[Josh Paxton]

I got into the habit of using it in Finale and Sibelius charts because in all of their pseudo-handwritten chord symbol fonts, the capital M and lowercase m looked too much alike. (I didn't like writing out Maj and min, partly because they require more keystrokes and space, but mostly just on principle; if my 8-year-old nephew can write an M and an m that are easily distinguishable from each other, then I expect professional font designers to be able to match that level of typographic sophistication.)

[Bobadohshe]

I'm surprised you had issues in LA with guys not knowing a triangle meant Maj 7. My only theory would be that guys that came up in a not really educated (musically) fashion might be strangers to it. Correct me if I'm wrong but would it be fair to say that when you moved to LA you initially connected with RnB and smooth jazz guys more than straight ahead guys? I could see some of them not knowing it as much.

 

I use both triangle and Maj7 as notation in my charts. I tend to use a Triangle more on straight ahead jazz tunes where it implies you can put 6ths, 9ths, 7ths, even #11ths in at your discretion. I tend to use Maj 7 on pop charts more where the voicing is strictly a Major 7th voicing and further color would not be desired.

[ElmerJFudd]

And here lies the answer why there are wishy washy standards. It's all who you learned from and who they learned from. And in your travels what type of situations you were in and got exposed to.

 

As more and more charts are born digitally there might start to be a favor of this or that standard based on the software's defaults, perhaps. Although, the feature heavy apps like Finale and Sibelius let you use what you're used to.

[zephonic]

As more and more charts are born digitally there might start to be a favor of this or that standard based on the software's defaults, perhaps. Although, the feature heavy apps like Finale and Sibelius let you use what you're used to.

 

I didn't know Sibelius will let you use deltas? I always thought maj7 was the only option. At least it seems to be the default option in my version. How do you make a delta?

 

 

Yes, it's an old jazz chart thing. I vaguely remember a discussion about this on the Sax On The Web forum. Some people learned to read old charts with the delta, younger people learned to read maj7. There are other symbol differences too. Minus (-) for min, plus (+) for aug, degree symbol for dim, etc.

 

I learned to read both but younger people learned to read min, maj7, dim. etc. They say it's less confusing and easier to sight read. Sometimes the delta can be confused as a badly hand written o.

 

That could be a factor. Most of the guys I play with are younger.

 

I was taught at NTSU not to use delta, circles, etc, because, as stated above, too error prone when sight reading. Also, no M=major and m=minor for the same reason. Instead, Ma or Maj and mi or min.

 

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

I'm surprised you had issues in LA with guys not knowing a triangle meant Maj 7. My only theory would be that guys that came up in a not really educated (musically) fashion might be strangers to it. Correct me if I'm wrong but would it be fair to say that when you moved to LA you initially connected with RnB and smooth jazz guys more than straight ahead guys? I could see some of them not knowing it as much.

 

I wonder if it is more a thing of they don't like it, rather than not knowing it? Same thing with half diminished, a lot of folks here seem to prefer min7b5.

 

 

 

 

[Jazz+]

In Sibelius type "maj7" and you get the triangle after you click Enter.

Same for "half-dim" and "dim" to get their circle symbols.

 

Important tips:

Change all of your Sibelius font types to Inkpen

Change the Font size to 9.3 and the Chord Symbol font size to 38

[zephonic]

Hmm, I have Sibelius First, and in my version maj7 remains maj7. Diminished and half-diminished do get their circle symbols.

[Dave Ferris]

I'm surprised you had issues in LA with guys not knowing a triangle meant Maj 7. My only theory would be that guys that came up in a not really educated (musically) fashion might be strangers to it. Correct me if I'm wrong but would it be fair to say that when you moved to LA you initially connected with RnB and smooth jazz guys more than straight ahead guys? I could see some of them not knowing it as much.

 

I use both triangle and Maj7 as notation in my charts. I tend to use a Triangle more on straight ahead jazz tunes where it implies you can put 6ths, 9ths, 7ths, even #11ths in at your discretion. I tend to use Maj 7 on pop charts more where the voicing is strictly a Major 7th voicing and further color would not be desired.

 

Everyone in my circle of players from my generation - jazz, pop , r&b , funk/fusion, even rock - knew the triangle was Maj. 7. That's why I always used it over the years. I can't recall anyone questioning what it stood for. Now my handwriting - that was another issue.

 

Like Elmer said , it could be a generational thing where the younger guys were used to not seeing hand written charts and more computer generated lead sheets.

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Aai0OGRzDyU/VfpW3lgbNJI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/Lo9s78QgAVw/s1600/Naima.jpg

 

 

What's an "Eb petal"? I can see that would fit in Coltrane's "African Flower", but in "Naima" it should be "Eb PEDAL..."

That's the original lead sheet in Trane's hand, so it's either a misspell on Pedal or he had this tune by Duke on his mind...maybe he was practicing it.

 

[MathOfInsects]

I am old, and not a straight-jazzer, but know the triangle as Maj7 always and forever.

 

I agree about the not-distinct-enough M's in the JazzText fonts, though there is an ASCII shortcut for the triangle somewhere, at least in Finale.

[Steve Nathan]

I wasn't schooled properly (or improperly ) anywhere

but the triangle has been major 7th as long as I can remember. I've always charted number charts with minus signs, plus signs, triangles, circles and slashed circles.

[WesG]

What I particularly hate is charts writer with the plus sign meaning major. Aaaiiuiiiiiiirrrrbhhhhh!!!!

[DanL]

I've always used the triangle symbol for maj7. I use excel a lot to make cheat sheets and I guess I could find a font with it but it's easier to type maj7 now lol.