Studio One 3 vs. Cubase 6.5 - noticeable difference in sound

[zephonic]

I've been on Cubase 6.5.5 for the last five years or so, refused to update.

 

Now it has started to get a little old, but rather than simply updating to Cubase 9, I decided to check out some other DAW's first. I have trials of Studio One3, Ableton Live 9, and current version of Reaper.

 

Coming from Cubase (with some background in Logic and ProTools), StudioOne is the most familiar and easiest to use, so I started making a beat to get a feel for it.

There are a few things that were odd and a little annoying, but for the most part I'm really digging it.

 

It let me get in the groove right away, and most things were pretty intuitive, so soon I was jamming and I liked what I had enough to wanna be able to open it in Cubase, too, just in case.

So I saved the settings for Omnisphere as a multi, the Battery 4 kit was standard 808 multi without changes (except shortening the sustain/release on the clap), and I rendered the two sounds from StudioOne's internal instruments (Presence and Impact) to audio files. I exported the song as a MIDI file which I opened in Cubase.

 

Now here's the odd thing, when I played them back to back, I immediately noticed a difference in sound. It is most noticeable on the clap, I think.

 

StudioOne 3: https://app.box.com/s/r7utx7qh1qpnook2kvgww9m4yhnlw3yh

Cubase 6.5: https://app.box.com/s/0s2ckq2y4y0yvlbwz41wjti3wme7di2q

 

To me, Studio One sounds better. But Cubase 6.5 is five years old, and I believe they introduced a new audio engine with Cubase 8.

 

Just wanted to see whether the difference is as noticeable to others as it is me? And maybe some thoughts as to what could cause this discrepancy. I would think they're supposed to null...

[KeyMoe]

Listening to them on the iPad the studio 3 version sounded a bit brighter like the eq was set differently for the 2 tracks. Hard to say one sounded better than the other, just brighter.

[Jazzmammal]

I agree, very noticeable difference, it seemed like the S1 had a bit of extra gain and presence on the clap. This is on my big Altec Model 14 monitors. You could probably tweak Cubase to match it in a few seconds.

 

Still, if this is a raw wave with no effects then S1 is kickin it.

 

Bob

[zephonic]

Still, if this is a raw wave with no effects then S1 is kickin it.

 

It is. Straight bounce from the main out in both cases.

 

I thought it had to be a user error, so I checked everything over and over again. I'm positive all settings are identical. But S1 hits a little harder, more in your face. The main output level is hotter, for some reason.

It is indeed most noticeable on the clap, when you take that out they're actually quite similar, but still...my inner OCD wants to know why!?!

 

 

[burningbusch]

Obvious differences between the mixes. You say all levels are the same; must be differences in the mixing algorithms.

 

There are volume differences between the mixes and pretty much everything is relates to volume changes when you're all done with it.

 

Panning: volume changes left-right

EQ: volume changes within a frequency range.

Compression/Expansion/Limiting: volume changes in the dynamic range

 

I own and have worked with most of the DAWs (PT, Logic, Ableton, Cubase, DP, Reason, S1) and can only say I have gotten the best results with S1 and Protools, which is primarily what I use. No rigorous testing, just end results and workflow preferences.

 

Busch.

[dsetto]

I concur with all the perception comparisons already said. This S1 clip sounding more hi-fi, more depth, perhaps; and most evident with clap. In my 1st round, I felt the Cubase had more bass; but I couldn't "reproduce" that observation when I went back & forth a few times. (Probably an interpretation of less high, I suppose.) In this one Cubase feels more 16-bit, and S1 feels more 32-bit. I've never worked in 32-bit yet. Just using throwing out those terms loosely. (flat vs depth.)

 

--

I am currently considering learning Cubase, coming from Pro Tools vanilla, I'm tuned in to this discussion.

 

[zephonic]

The reason I'm looking for alternatives has nothing to do with Cubase's sound quality or work flow. I've used it forever and am generally fine with it.

I started looking elsewhere because Steinberg have effectively turned their annual updates into a covert subscription scheme; they drop support for older versions with newer OS'es and vice versa. Avid is doing the same, but at least they do it openly.

 

When trying out Studio One I noticed this discrepancy, which feels like another strike against Cubase, but I wanna test a few more identical projects before I jump to conclusions. This may be an anomaly.

 

 

Frankly, Logic seems the most 'logical' alternative (pun not intended). I've used it before and it wouldn't take much time to get up to speed with it, but I'm a little concerned about Apple's long-term commitment to the AV market and if I'm gonna learn another DAW, I think it wise to pick one that runs on Windows as well.

 

 

In this one Cubase feels more 16-bit, and S1 feels more 32-bit. I've never worked in 32-bit yet. Just using throwing out those terms loosely. (flat vs depth.)

 

I run both DAW engines in 32-bit floating point at 44.1KHz, and exported both .wavs as 24-bit 44.1Khz. That said, Studio One's marketing fluff talks about their 64-bit 'double precision' audio engine, but they don't go into specifics.

[kelp]

Check that the pan laws are set the same for both DAWS.

[Al Coda]

Check that the pan laws are set the same for both DAWS.

 

 

+1

 

That´s what I recognized too when I compared Samplitude w/ Cubase years ago or nowadays Reaper vs S1 v2 Pro.

Different pan-law makes a big difference.

 

 

A.C.

[Ulf]

Check that the pan laws are set the same for both DAWS.

 

 

+1

 

That´s what I recognized too when I compared Samplitude w/ Cubase years ago or nowadays Reaper vs S1 v2 Pro.

Different pan-law makes a big difference.

 

A.C.

 

+2

 

Easy to overlook (I mean, a pan is a pan is a pan...)

 

[Polychrest]

This is helpful: The Truth about Panning Laws

[zephonic]

I could not find panning law adjustment in S1 but documentation states it is fixed at -3dB.

I usually have Cubase projects at -3dB as well, but oddly enough, for this project it was set to Equal Power...not sure what that means

 

However, when I changed it to -3dB there was no noticeable improvement. In fact, subjectively it seemed to lose a bit of impact at first, but after flip-flopping between them a few times, I could no longer tell the difference.

 

 

edit:

From what I'm reading, 'equal power' should be the same as -3dB? :idk

 

 

[burningbusch]

To change pan options in S1 you will need to insert a DUAL PAN FX onto the stereo channel(s). There are five pan law options available.

 

Busch.

[llatham]

Being that it's a clap sound, it could be how each is handling transient peaks.

[midinut]

Zephonic, I can relate to your dilemma with Cubase. I'm still running 7.5, but way back then I added The Grand 3, HALion Symphonic Orchestra, and the Absolute VST Collection (which gave me HALion Sonic - full version as opposed to SE, Padshop Pro - as opposed to just plain Padshop, and a few other perks). If I were to upgrade to version 9 now, it'll cost me $249 to upgrade Cubase itself and $299. to upgrade my Absolute VST Collection. It pisses me off too. Not long after I got my MBP, and after grabbing Mainstage and starting to explore the Logic Instruments included with it (including Alchemy) I decided to give Logic Pro X a whirl. I subscribed to macprovideo for 30 days and took both the Mainstage and the Logic courses and was up to speed in no time. I agree that we can't be sure what Apple will do with Logic in the future, but at least they are not asking for money every time they add a new feature. For $550 I can invest in some great VSTs. I'm still on Omnisphere 1 and Keyscape is calling my name. I'd also love to have some of the u-he plugins. Decisions, decisions ...

 

I have not tried to import any of my Cubase files into Logic or vice-versa so cannot attest to any differences like you did in your original post. Studio One definitely sounded brighter and more "in your face" I thought.

[Jim Alfredson]

For one thing, the Studio One export that you posted is louder. We tend to equate louder with better. So that right there is an unfair comparison. Once level matched, the only difference I can hear is in the level of the clap. It is louder in the Studio One example. This could be how it loaded Battery. Or maybe individual channels in Studio One are just louder in general. Or maybe this is what they improved in Cubase 8 with the new audio engine. From the press releases at the time: "Both versions of Cubase 8 are said to be based on a rebuilt audio engine, which promises to deliver improved performance of multitimbral and disk-streaming instrument tracks."

 

So there you go.

 

[dsetto]

Zephonic, regarding your comment on Steinberg dropping support compared to others:

I have Cubase 8.5 launching on Mountain Lion, and Cubase 9 opening on El Capitan. I have not run it much so I cannot attest to its reliability in these unsupported OS's. My hunch is that the they will work- at least mostly. If not, I can downgrade Cubase/upgrade OS as hardware permits. That's different from a version simply not loading at all. It seems that a minimum OS requirement is different from supported OS "indemnification".

 

Re: PT, Pro Tools vanilla's hard annual cost is $100. That's sort of in line with the old guard, except Logic. But I feel that's subsidized in support of pushing computers.

 

 

[zephonic]

Cubase 9 is officially supported on El Cap (10.11).

 

My 6.5 is getting creaky. Steinberg does not support it on anything later than Mountain Lion, but I'm on Mavericks. Their suggestions was to update both Cubase and OS, or revert back to Mountain Lion.

The thing is, I'm having issues:

 

-occasionally losing mp3 export function (this was on Mountain Lion and Mavericks)

-permissions for bundled instruments disappear (Retrologue, Padshop etc.)

 

Frankly, these seem like eLicenser issues to me.

 

I had a trial of Cubase 8.5 last year, and didn't like it, so I didn't upgrade. At least Cubase 9 has a few things that seem cool (like the sampler track), but at this point it feels like too little, too late, for too much $$$. Frankly, I'd just do it to get rid of the aforementioned issues.

 

I may yet upgrade, it would certainly be the easier option (not to mention 10+ years of back catalog), but somehow it seems like it might be time to move on.

 

[zephonic]

I bit the bullet and bought Logic today. After ten years of Cubase (and five years of Nuendo before that) it feels a little weird and counter-intuitive, but I actually enjoy learning it.

 

 

[mauriziodececco]

As it was discussed in another thread, i am in the same situation, and i am planning to do the same switch.

 

But in the meanwhile i started a different project, mixing composition with live performance, and i decided to give Ableton Live a try, thank also to the fact that there is a prosperous market for send hand Ableton Live licenses (so i got a good deal and i know i can resell the license for the same price).

 

Well, my impression is that is something deeply different from Cubase and Logic; most DAWs adopt the paradigm of the virtual studio, offering a virtual structure that match closely (even graphically) real studio equipement.

The result is that they are very flexible, support composition and professional recording, mixing and mastering, but at the cost of a significant complexity.

 

Live organisation and user interface is different, i would consider it a lot more a composition and sound design tool; i find the user interface a lot more direct (for exemple, MIDI controller mapping), less nested menus, more straight in the face interaction; but of course, i am a composer; if i had to mix/master a complex recording, i would use a more traditional DAW.

 

Actually i do not know (yet) if there is something that can be done with Live that cannot be done with Cubase or Logic (or the contrary), with the notable exception of the Session view stuff; it is just that way Live present and organise things is very different from the others.

 

Maurizio

[zephonic]

So out of interest I decided to run the same MIDI file I used for the Studio One/Cubase comparo through Logic, and it sounds like this:

 

LPX:

https://app.box.com/s/0gqrbd0gpvdinrij4b9cto9vg6her21g

 

 

I could no longer edit the OP, and broke the link to the original S1 file so here are the revised links:

 

S1:

https://app.box.com/s/ob89gj8gv2qxae4zcwubykw63gs8ylgq

 

Cubase 6.5 (FWIW, I also ran this project in the Cubase 9 trial, and it was identical):

 

https://app.box.com/s/0s2ckq2y4y0yvlbwz41wjti3wme7di2q

 

 

 

To my ears, Cubase and Logic sound pretty similar. StudioOne definitely sprinkled some magic pixie dust on their audio engine.