Best Portable Midi Controller

[Doerfler]

That's it for now.

 

looks fantastic

[Markyboard]

That's it for now.

 

looks fantastic

 

Thanks - so does your avatar

[AnotherScott]

I thought I read that it uses Fatar but I could very well be mistaken. It feels buttery smooth although I didn't get to try it hooked up to anything. Also unfortunately it's more for integration with Komplete and looks limited as a stand-alone for external synths

Yes it is Fatar, according to NI's own web site.

 

Have you ever played the Samson Graphite 49? I liked that too. I wonder if you might prefer that to the Akai.

 

I probably tried out the action unconnected at some point - can't remember. But it never made the list - no foot controller, only sustain.

If you're controlling soft synths, the $49 MIDIExpression adapter solves that problem. But if you're not using a computer and instead directly controlling other hardware, yeah, that would be a limitation.

 

[Steve Nathan]

I come from acoustic piano.

I know that it is hard to find these two things combined since the keybed is almost always related to the weight !

 

I may have missed someone saying this, but I didn't see any mention of the Casio PX-5S??

88 keys, weighted, under 25lbs. I'm new to this board, but it seems perfect for carrying under one arm (or on a train) and has a nice feeling action for AP VIs

[Markyboard]

I may have missed someone saying this, but I didn't see any mention of the Casio PX-5S?? 88 keys, weighted, under 25lbs.

 

Despite the relatively low weight I assumed the OP was looking for something much smaller i.e. 5 octaves.

[Steve Nathan]

Despite the relatively low weight I assumed the OP was looking for something much smaller i.e. 5 octaves.

 

I didn't see that mentioned. He said

I need to be able to control Mainstage and Live, using soft like Keyscape, Omnisphere 2 for live usage (jazz acoustic piano trio, but I want to add new sounds, new world).

 

I thought that made the PX more suitable. Perhaps the OP will clarify.

[Markyboard]

Despite the relatively low weight I assumed the OP was looking for something much smaller i.e. 5 octaves.

 

I didn't see that mentioned.

 

Well I didn't say it was a good assumption.

[Al Quinn]

Yeah I assumed 5 octaves too because he mentioned a few 5 octave keyboards in his original post.

[Reezekeys]

You just need to be quick on those octave shift buttons!

[Al Quinn]

I spent some time with the A800-PRO. It's not for me. I'll be returning it.

 

I like the layout and the interface is a quick learn, but I'm uncomfortable with the action. The keys don't respond as expected -- at least not for how I'm accustomed to playing. I couldn't even play a simple classical piece decently. Some notes sounded louder than expected and some sounded softer. It seems the velocity needed to create a particular volume varies considerably from the outside to the inside area of the keys.

 

Oh well, back to the drawing board...

[Markyboard]

Some notes sounded louder than expected and some sounded softer. It seems the velocity needed to create a particular volume varies considerably from the outside to the inside area of the keys.

 

Oh well, back to the drawing board...

 

This seems to be a common problem with many of the unweighted and semi-weighted actions out there. Until now I wasn't sure if the A-800Pro had the same action as the A300-Pro but from what you describe it sounds like it does.

[Reezekeys]

Hey Al, sorry to hear the A800 isn't cutting it for you I feel a little responsible in a way! Maybe I'm oblivious but I've never felt what you describe with the velocity variances. It might be because the A800 (and before that the Edirol PCR-M80) were the only keyboards I played I didn't have an acoustic at home and rarely encountered them on a gig. Looking at my hands as I play, I see that my fingers contact the keys at their ends. Moving towards the inside of the keys, it definitely takes more force to get the same velocity, which I chalk up to physics the fulcrum point is closer, right?

 

Before the A800 and PCR-M80 I had a Roland XP50 which had a crazy-light action but I got used to it, so when I switched to the M80 it was a major adjustment. The M80 felt almost impossible to play at first, if you can believe that however after a few weeks it was all good and the XP50's keyboard felt way too light! When the M80 started acting up on me after a few years I knew I wanted to stay with the same keyboard feel which is the major reason I went with the A800 Pro (I'm pretty sure they have the same keybed). I've posted before about what I saw as the shortcomings of the A800 the ridiculously tiny and hard-to-read display, and the USB jack which IMO is a big weakness I just replaced it for the third and last time (the circuit board won't survive another desolder/resolder). Since the A800 has been around for a few years now, I'm kinda hoping Roland refreshes their controller line and comes out with something new that addresses these shortcomings. I occasionally go to a Guitar Center or Sam Ash and check out other controllers, and so far the Akais are the only ones in that price range that have a decent feeling keyboard to me but I've read some comments about a lot of velocity variances on them. The Arturia felt pretty good, but it's expensive, partly because it includes their software instruments which I don't want and it's heavier too. So I'm kinda stuck with Roland for the moment. Sorry for rambling, and I'm glad at least you can return your A800. Good luck on your quest!

[AnotherScott]

Looking at my hands as I play, I see that my fingers contact the keys at their ends. Moving towards the inside of the keys, it definitely takes more force to get the same velocity, which I chalk up to physics the fulcrum point is closer, right?

Yes, there's definitely physics at play here, as you're basically hitting a lever closer to the fulcrum. Yet, this phenomenon is much more pronounced on some actions than others. I think one factor may be the source of the tension itself, i.e. whether it is a spring...

 

 

or just the flexing of the plastic itself (I've seen an image for that, but can't locate it at the moment).

 

Other variables could be the sheer amount of that tension (the tension on the spring, the thickness/resistance of the plastic); how far back that fulcrum is set relative to the visible rear of the key; the presence/location of any additional counterweighting...?

 

But for whatever reason, this is definitely something that differs from board to board. The otherwise decent feeling actions in the Korg 61 Kross/Krome/KingKorg suffers from this pretty badly. The competitive Yamahas (MX, MOXF6, Piaggero) and various boards that use the Fatar TP9 variants are much better, as are the higher end Roland actions (i.e. Jupiter 50/80). Just from what I have gleaned from reading comments, it sounds like the lower end Roland boards (VR09/FA06, and apparently the A800) are in between.

[AnotherScott]

and on a related topic, does anyone know whether the A800 has the same action as the earlier PCR800? If it is different, how you would characterize the difference?

[MotiDave]

You just need to be quick on those octave shift buttons!

 

Ahh, the ol' 12 semi-tone transpose button (duck!)

[Markyboard]

Other variables could be the sheer amount of that tension (the tension on the spring, the thickness/resistance of the plastic); how far back that fulcrum is set relative to the visible rear of the key; the presence/location of any additional counterweighting...?

 

But for whatever reason, this is definitely something that differs from board to board. The otherwise decent feeling actions in the Korg 61 Kross/Krome/KingKorg suffers from this pretty badly. The competitive Yamahas (MX, MOXF6, Piaggero) and various boards that use the Fatar TP9 variants are much better, as are the higher end Roland actions (i.e. Jupiter 50/80). Just from what I have gleaned from reading comments, it sounds like the lower end Roland boards (VR09/FA06, and apparently the A800) are in between.

 

Yeah I think you got it just right Scott, other than the lower end Rolands being "in between". For my playing style I can't imagine anything worse for control of velocity. Also the shorter keys used obviously effect the fulcrum position.

 

One other factor is the resolution that the keybed outputs to the processor. Like I said in an earlier response a keybed can feel wonderful and still perform miserably. This was my experience with the Novation SL series.

 

With the caveat that I didn't hear this personally, someone on the dsi forum paraphrased Dave Smith's disappointment with the erratic Chinese manufactured keybed performance and that he had to create the velocity curves by hand. I can believe it based on my recent experience with two of their synth models.

[Al Quinn]

Reezekeys, no problem. You are not responsible. I'm happy it works for you. I've bought and returned so many keyboards and amps that I just accept this as part of the process. Since I don't know of a store where I can try this stuff out it seems like this is the way to do it.

 

Scott, it's interesting that you mentioned Piagerro. I spent a fair amount of time this morning playing my NP11 Piagerro midi'ed to the MBP running the close mic'ed Ravenscroft grand piano and, while still a compromise, it's a great combination of lightweight gear. It sounds excellent and the finger to ear connection is acceptable. I'm also comfortable playing organ and synth on this action. If I could find a keyboard with the NP11 action, faders, buttons, and dials I think I'd be set.

[Reezekeys]

Interesting stuff here. I admit to not knowing the ins & outs of the various keybeds. Since I drive my daughter almost an hour each way to her school and often stay in the area rather than drive back home, I occasionally hit the Guitar Center & Sam Ash in Paramus NJ and kill some time playing the 'boards there. I can't really tell about the velocity responses of the controllers since they're never hooked up to anything, but I can feel how the action responds. I think I may just be used to the Roland spring action. Are there other ways of doing it besides springs? (I'm talking about these cheap & light synth-action keyboards obviously). I've noticed that some of them have keys with a slight side-to-side wobble and a "clacky" sound when the key bottoms out; that's a deal-breaker for me. I'm pretty happy with the A800's feel but I think I could get used to different actions as long as they allowed decently fast note repetition and didn't exhibit those negative properties I just described. I almost forgot what I think is probably the most important part of having a controller that works for you: selectable dynamics in addition to velocity curves. The A800 has four curves, but each one can be selected with either "light", "medium" or "heavy" settings that correspond to how hard you actually hit the keys. Without that I don't think I'd be playing this keyboard.

[Reezekeys]

Reezekeys, no problem. You are not responsible. I'm happy it works for you. I've bought and returned so many keyboards and amps that I just accept this as part of the process. Since I don't know of a store where I can try this stuff out it seems like this is the way to do it.

Cool, Al. I hear you on trying this stuff out. I don't believe I've ever seen a Roland controller on a display floor of a music store. Synths, workstations, digital pianos, yes controllers, never.

[Markyboard]

Cool, Al. I hear you on trying this stuff out. I don't believe I've ever seen a Roland controller on a display floor of a music store. Synths, workstations, digital pianos, yes controllers, never.

 

Here I see them often displayed in an off to the side area but rarely if ever powered/connected up.

[Reezekeys]

The controllers I see are never powered up, or even near any power what would be the point, unless they're hooked up to something that makes sound? Maybe to check out the display I guess.

[AnotherScott]

If I could find a keyboard with the NP11 action, faders, buttons, and dials I think I'd be set.

Why not just add a NanoKontrol to your NP11? Just velcro it to the top. (If you've used up USB ports on the MBP, you might need a hub, no big deal.) Though personally, if I were to go this way, I'd probably look to sell the NP11 and pick up an NP31 to get the 76 keys.

[Al Quinn]

 

Other variables could be the sheer amount of that tension (the tension on the spring, the thickness/resistance of the plastic); how far back that fulcrum is set relative to the visible rear of the key; the presence/location of any additional counterweighting...?

I suspect key length may play into the physics at hand, so I measured a few that I have handy:

 

Yamaha C3 grand: 5 7/8" (this is what I practice on and am therefore most accustomed to)

NP11: 5 1/2"

Hammond A100: 5 1/4"

A800-PRO: 5 1/8" (this was bit hard to measure because I had already packed it up for return but I think I got it right)

 

I didn't take anything apart so I don't know where the fulcrums are. But it stands to reason that when we play a key close to the fulcrum it will require a lot of force.

 

 

[Al Quinn]

Why not just add a NanoKontrol to your NP11? Just velcro it to the top. (If you've used up USB ports on the MBP, you might need a hub, no big deal.) Though personally, if I were to go this way, I'd probably look to sell the NP11 and pick up an NP31 to get the 76 keys.

Thanks. This might work for me provided the transport keys can be mapped to whatever I like. I also like the idea of 76 keys for performance but I wouldn't sell the NP11. It's served me so well as a travel practice keyboard. I find 61 keys more convenient for travel and enough to practice on.