fleeceBay (rant)

[jimkost2002]

I hadn't sold any big ticket items on "the Bay" for a number of years and recently decided to list my Forte 7 s a backup to selling on CL.

First I tried two reserve price auctions. My reserve was not met, so I relished it again at a slightly lower price also at a reserve.

Finally, it sold on a fixed price auction with a best offer $100 under my asking price.

Then the gouging began:

First, PayEnemy took out their $65 fee.

Then, they put my money on hold for 21 days or when the buyer notifies them that the item arrived safely. (Because "I haven't sold on eBay for awhile"!!!!!)

Finally, EBay fleeced me for $324.78!

And, I am shipping the Forte to the buyer today.

I did contact the buyer and he was nice enough to say that he would contact PayPal upon recieving the Forte so I could get my money faster.

Wow. Just. Wow.

Never. Again.

 

Thanks, brothers, for listening to my rant!

 

[Bill W]

Yeah, I'll never sell on ebay again...it's ridiculous. I've found that things on CL don't move quickly (unless it's a guitar), but they do go eventually. It just sold a Kurzweil PC361 on CL and it took 9 months.

[jimkost2002]

I hear you, Bill!!

I've had synths and live sound go quickly on CL....

I could have waited longer, but I've ordered a Mojo Dual and wanted to recuperate that investment fairly quickly.

I have sticker shock because I remember the days when you waited 3-4 days for the funds to clear before you shipped to the buyer.....ah well.....

[Markyboard]

Really ticks me off that their percentage (which is absurd to begin with) is based on the total price including shipping and the Pay-Pal fee.

 

I've been happy with Reverb.com. But you do have to be willing to wait out a buyer, and then waiting out receiving payment which wasn't that big a deal imo.

[Dr88s]

I'll be the contrarian here. eBay is taking their fee for exposing your ad to a much larger potential market than CL or even Reverb.

 

The big beef with eBay these days seems to be the number of scammers there and eBay's penchant for siding with buyers; please be careful selling such a high-value item as your Forte there.

[WesG]

eBay HAD to start taking their commission the total price (at least, the base price plus shipping), because folks were doing things like selling $50 items and charging $500 shipping (when the actual numbers should have been the other way around)

[jimkost2002]

Sorry, I don't buy that justification to skew things so as to put non-business (private individual) sellers at such a pronounced disadvantage.

[Markyboard]

eBay HAD to start taking their commission the total price (at least, the base price plus shipping), because folks were doing things like selling $50 items and charging $500 shipping (when the actual numbers should have been the other way around)

 

Never considered that. I always thought people did this to game the return policy; Return within 14 days for full refund - shipping excluded.

 

 

[Song80s]

I hadn't sold any big ticket items on "the Bay" for a number of years and recently decided to list my Forte 7 s a backup to selling on CL.

First I tried two reserve price auctions. My reserve was not met, so I relished it again at a slightly lower price also at a reserve.

Finally, it sold on a fixed price auction with a best offer $100 under my asking price.

Then the gouging began:

First, PayEnemy took out their $65 fee.

Then, they put my money on hold for 21 days or when the buyer notifies them that the item arrived safely. (Because "I haven't sold on eBay for awhile"!!!!!)

Finally, EBay fleeced me for $324.78!

And, I am shipping the Forte to the buyer today.

I did contact the buyer and he was nice enough to say that he would contact PayPal upon recieving the Forte so I could get my money faster.

Wow. Just. Wow.

Never. Again.

 

Thanks, brothers, for listening to my rant!

 

its a bitter lesson- you have to know what you are signing up for with these online services.

 

Did you get practical use from the Forte 7 ?

[Song80s]

eBay HAD to start taking their commission the total price (at least, the base price plus shipping), because folks were doing things like selling $50 items and charging $500 shipping (when the actual numbers should have been the other way around)

 

this is true. eBay has been copying the ( more successful) Amazon model

[jimkost2002]

GregC,

 

Yes, a bitter lesson, indeed, but one, I'll not repeat.

It served its purpose in the time I had it.

I'm just more of a vintage guy:

I need quality and immediacy not planned obsolescence

 

 

[Song80s]

GregC,

 

It served its purpose in the time I had it.

I'm just more of a vintage guy:

I need quality and immediacy not planned obsolescence

 

 

thats good. I am careful on what I buy these days. Some boards do not hold decent resale value.

[jimkost2002]

True......

That would be 98% of modern mass produced keyboards

[WesG]

Sorry, I don't buy that justification to skew things so as to put non-business (private individual) sellers at such a pronounced disadvantage.

 

The shipping cost difference between commercial and private sellers is not really all that significant. And if the seller has to charge sales tax, then that advantage is gone.

 

But it's also called "eBay", not "fairBay", nor "charityBay". The eBay customer base decided it was okay to cheat eBay out of their fair share by grossly inflating shipping. This is the only logical response eBay had at its disposal.

 

If you want to look for inequity in this whole thing, ask yourself why it is cheaper to ship a widget to your door from Beijing than 10 miles away.

 

Wes

[DulceLabs.com]

Really ticks me off that their percentage (which is absurd to begin with) is based on the total price including shipping and the Pay-Pal fee.

 

.... Especially seeing how Ebay and PayPal are the same company.

[Outkaster]

Well they split up as companies. E-bay has a couple of things that are different. Years ago people were not paying for items so they protected the sellers. Now the sellers seem to be on the hot-seat now with everything protecting the buyers. Also that BS about people watching auctions doesn't meant anything. It's just not that fun anymore.

[Song80s]

These online ( Amazon , eBay) have either grown exponentially and/or changed greatly since the good old days of covered wagons. There are millions of sellers so its a buyers oriented venue.

 

Like I mentioned , eBay is simply following many things that Amazon is doing.

[Jazzmammal]

Jim, take a trip down memory lane to 1995 or so. What were you're choices then? Put a physical ad in your local paper (and the rates were NOT cheap), put the word out to all your musician friends who were as broke as you were or wholesale it to a music store. Care to guess what the wholesale book value is on that Forte right now? I'm sure you could PM Dave Weiser and ask him.

 

If you tried to sell it at a physical auction house, how would that work out for you? I'm not aware of musicians auction houses. Your Forte would be there like a wart on your butt being offered between a leather sofa and a collection of weird African masks or something. Good luck with that and if it did sell they would still charge you 20%. Waiting 3 weeks for you money is not a biggie because listing it on CL, checking with auction, schlepping it around to music stores trying to get wholesale values all takes time too. I'm sure you're busy like the rest of us so doing all that could easily take three weeks or more.

 

Selling anything yourself takes work. The decision people have to make is are the hours and aggravation involved worth the extra money they might get doing it themselves versus taking it to Sam Ash and getting a check on the spot.

 

The Bay is not great for sure but fair enough.

 

Bob

[jimkost2002]

WesG, thanks for your input. I still respectfully disagree.

I never stated I was looking for "charity" as I do understand the aspect of charging seller fees. I guess I've been off eBay long to have missed "the eBay customer base cheating poor eBay out of their 'fair share'"...

I hardly think ebay's supposed "mass fleecing" warrants a jump from 3% to 13% in seller fees.

Not to mention PayPal holding my $ for 3 weeks out of the months to gain liquidity on the float....

Have a good night

[jimkost2002]

Bob, I've taken my gear to stores here in the 5 boroughs to sell on commission and they've taken their very reasonable 8% so I do understand the work involved in selling. I'm cool with that....but, c'mon 13% is bordering on usury.

 

 

[eric]

I stopped using eBay cold turkey over 5 years ago and I don't miss it one bit.

[DulceLabs.com]

Don't forget to try the Garage Sale section here. Gear Slutz also as a classified section. Reverb.com seems to be growing, but I don't know much about how that works.

[Synthoid]

Bob, I've taken my gear to stores here in the 5 boroughs to sell on commission and they've taken their very reasonable 8%

 

That's very reasonable. We'd get clipped a good bit more here.

[RABid]

Bob, I've taken my gear to stores here in the 5 boroughs to sell on commission and they've taken their very reasonable 8% so I do understand the work involved in selling. I'm cool with that....but, c'mon 13% is bordering on usury.

 

 

A music store outside of Louisville set up a consignment shop. They started out charging 25% then bumped it to 40. At the end they tried charging 50% before closing it down.

[Polkahero]

I've sold most of my higher priced keyboards on Ebay only because nobody around here will spend that kind of money on something like that, and just about every local music store will charge a 20 percent consignment fee. The classifieds here are great but how many people actually view that part of the forum compared to how many people view items on Ebay? I hate the fees and the "pending balance" that Paypal nails me with whenever someone returns an item, but you just can't beat the market coverage. Priced accordingly, your gear will sell fast on Ebay! Never had any luck selling stuff on Reverb.

[Dr88s]

The classifieds here are great but how many people actually view that part of the forum compared to how many people view items on Ebay?

 

True, but I'd rather sell to somebody here than a 'stranger' on eBay, even if it means getting a (significantly) lower price, because a) this is a good group of people here, and b) I feel much more comfortable that the buyer is an honest-to-goodness reasonable musician and not a scammer looking to somehow score free gear from me.

[Outkaster]

Yeah the other part about that us no one wants to sell something at a significantly lower price unless money doesn't mean anything to you. With these boards you should always think about residual unless that is not important to you.

[Synthoid]

A music store outside of Louisville set up a consignment shop. They started out charging 25% then bumped it to 40. At the end they tried charging 50% before closing it down.

 

Most art galleries charge the artist 50% commission on a sale. Now that's fleecing. Imagine all the work that goes into creating the art, then paying for matting and framing, hauling the piece(s) to the gallery and getting a measly 50% of the sale?

 

One of my friends converted his garage into a studio when he retired. He painted with acrylics most of the time but created some beautiful digital images as well. He bought a really nice large-format inkjet printer... quite an investment, and he exhibited in some prestigious shows, but the financial return was pathetic.

 

Galleries are users.

 

[Song80s]

A music store outside of Louisville set up a consignment shop. They started out charging 25% then bumped it to 40. At the end they tried charging 50% before closing it down.

 

Most art galleries charge the artist 50% commission on a sale. Now that's fleecing. Imagine all the work that goes into creating the art, then paying for matting and framing, hauling the piece(s) to the gallery and getting a measly 50% of the sale?

 

One of my friends converted his garage into a studio when he retired. He painted with acrylics most of the time but created some beautiful digital images as well. He bought a really nice large-format inkjet printer... quite an investment, and he exhibited in some prestigious shows, but the financial return was pathetic.

 

Galleries are users.

 

I am a little surprised of folks who have been around awhile, complaining about resale and retail tactics. As many of us know, resale practices are all over the place and often a downright fantasy. Its still a free country and that will continue.

 

Most of what we see is ' what the market will bear' over a period of time.

 

Been an Amazon seller since 2008. Amazon takes a healthy slice from a sale, ranging from 25-38%. I sometimes feel that there cut is not worth it.

 

Then I tell myself, 75% of something is better than 75% of nothing.

[Synthoid]

I am a little surprised of folks who have been around awhile, complaining about resale and retail tactics.

 

Most of what we see is ' what the market will bear'

 

Yes, and speaking of galleries (sorry for the OT), I understand them taking a healthy commission when they give artists an exclusive show with lots of advertising and a wine and cheese party at the opening. However, most of the local galleries here--and I have experience with this--just take your art, slap it on the wall for awhile and grab that 50% every time.