Sub-37 vs. Rise>Monark - Animoog

[Redknife]

I know that there are a bunch of Sub-37's in use out there and I love the sound. I have a Roli Rise 49 on order. My immediate dilemma is that I could cancel the Rise and order the Sub 37. I have been trying out NI Monark (Mac) and Animoog (iPad), both of which can be driven by the Rise. So, solution 1= sub 37. Solution 2= rise + monarch or animoog. I could use advice from anyone who has spent time with the Sub-37 and either Monark or Animoog.

 

Background - I have a need to develop an ultralight gear mix. The Sub 37 is fairly light at 24# as I recall - still a little heavy for me with case (health). Sound wise in this endeavor, I am looking for fat mono analog synth sound.

 

I have Monark and Animoog- Through studio monitors with sub, my opinion is that the Monark is much warmer and deeper than the Animoog. To my ears, the Animoog is thinner and changing the cutoff filter often results in a harshness.

 

Problem is I can't easily audition the sub 37. I know having all the knobs is a major plus. Monark sounds pretty darn good and Reaktor 6 will allow some new easy modular add-on tricks. It is easy to map a tradition controller's knobs and sliders to Monark's controls and I assume the Rise will allow a subset of controls per setup.

 

Some questions:

Has anyone optimized the Animoog such that it sonically competes with either Monark or Moog?

Has anyone compared Monark and Sub-37?

An other thoughts about the choice at hand?

 

[johnchop]

Whole lot of different variables and ergonomics to assess here, regardless of sound.

 

By "ultralight gear mix" ... is this with the intent of gigging out?

 

Because I'm hearing Rise+iPad or Rise+laptop and then (potentially) and audio interface, versus all-in-one sub 37.

 

And as a Rise 25 owner, it's taking me some time to get around the Rise for fast parts. You may have better success than I, but regardless, the Rise seems like an odd choice for a mono-synth controller... unless you're already getting it for other reasons?

 

The Rise 25 isn't exactly lightweight either. It's a pretty solid piece of hardware. And yeah, it has a few controllers (3 sliders + XY pad) on top of pitch bend, velocity, and "brightness" MIDI CC control. It's not as controller-laden as many (much cheaper) options.

 

This just sounds like apples and kumquats to me.

 

-John

 

 

 

[Markyboard]

If the Sub37 is too heavy I would recommend the Sub Phatty. This will give you great analog sound that you can midi to your rise or whatever controller you wish to overcome the smaller keybed.

 

As to which sounds better, I don't know. They can be close depending on how you program them but all have a unique sound quality. I think of them as all different flavors of the original minimoog sound. Unless you're in a recording session after an exact specific sound I think it's not going to matter.

 

Not to preach but Cory Henry uses 2 Little Phattys and out of the half dozen times I've seen him live I've never thought "Gee- I wish he was using a real minimoog or ______instead". It's what he does that sounds great, not the machine. IMHO It just doesn't matter

[Redknife]

john- I am not currently playing out but I hope to emerge from the health issues well enough to gig. The weight of my gear is a barrier, so yes the intent of the ultra-light gear mix is to gig out. The Rise choice is one of expressive potential that I dig recognizing some impracticality, not a stand-alone solution.

 

Because I'm hearing Rise+iPad or Rise+laptop and then (potentially) and audio interface, versus all-in-one sub 37.

I wasn't clear - I don't plan on using only a Rise+laptop or only a Sub 37. I haven't decided yet on the main controller (say a px5s vs midi-only controller).I have a Roland a-500 for organ, synth control. I could go a lot of ways for the bread and butter.

 

You may have better success than I, but regardless, the Rise seems like an odd choice for a mono-synth controller

Interesting- I actually thought it would be a pretty good in that regard watching demos. You have your hands on it so that is a concern. I was imagining leads and bass lines as a forte.

 

This just sounds like apples and kumquats to me.

I suppose that is true. Nonetheless, to scratch the mono synth itch, I can use the Rise and traditional midi controller to drive the Monark or I can bail on the Rise and get a Sub 37. The key in my mind is the incremental benefit of the hardware sub 37 over a controller driving Monark. I could have posed the question without mentioning the Rise since I have other controllers but I have pre-ordered the Rise and could cancel and order the sub 37.

 

 

[roygBiv]

Hi Redknife

 

I realize your question is pretty Moog specific, but before spending that cash, you drop the $10 or whatever it is for the iSEM Oberheim app.

 

In my own journey to develop a lightweight righ, I've bought close 50 iPad synth apps over the last four yeasr.

 

The iSEM is by FAR the meatiest,and most organic sounding. Seriously. Much thicker than Animoog.

 

And its pretty accurate to the real thing - I owned a Oberheim 4 voice in the 80's (big brother to the SEM), and the interface/interaction/sound is amazingly close.

 

For a lot less weight

 

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there - iSEM is probably the only iPad synth that really sounds like a real analog synth, in that big filter/fat juicy thing, at least that I've found.

 

Roy

 

[DulceLabs.com]

Animoog is a great app and uses sampled Moog waveforms, but as you said, it's not a thick meaty sound. It'd great in it's own right for different sounds, but doesn't really sound like the real deal.

 

As mentioned above iSEM (and I would add other Artutia apps) do a really good job capturing the classic analog sound so you should really explore some of those.

[Sven Golly]

I'm seeing a lot of apples v. oranges v. rutabagas in this thread (I don't have enough experience with kumquats, but I trust Johnchop's opinion here to say I agree with him ).

 

Animoog is NOT a "traditional" Moog sound. It is its own thing. iMini on the iPad is what you're looking for.

 

Monark is intended to sound like a Mini. A more appropriate comparison in this case would be Mini V against Monark, frankly.

 

Finally, the audio hardware you use to get sounds out of your virtual rig play a HUGE role in how the sound presents itself. No mention of your audio interface, so no way to tell you how close you're able to get to the quality of a direct-out Sub37.

 

Also, the Rise is a whole other paradigm, not really a directly comparable item.

 

Whichever way you go, though, you've got some great candidates in your lists.

 

[Redknife]

All good thoughts- thanks. Software comparisons noted. Downloaded iSEM- will take a bit to get a handle on that and optimize the sound.

I agree I'm going to the grocery store with $5 and have to pick between apples, oranges, rutabagas, or frosted flakes. I hear ya! But... I'm going to get something with that $5!

Might boil down to getting the Rise 49 and seeing if that floats my boat. If not, then I've heard no-one complain about the burden of owning a sub 37 (or maybe sub-phatty per Marky).

 

 

[johnchop]

I have a Roland a-500 for organ, synth control.

 

Triggering sounds on a laptop? If you're already bringing a laptop and interface, sounds like Monark would be a sensible route to keep the weight down (assuming your CPU handles all your sounds with ease).

 

 

I was imagining leads and bass lines as a forte.

 

Possibly. For me anyway, performing fast, articulated lead lines on the Rise is still difficult, but I'm not exactly practicing daily. Also, I kinda suck but I do love it for bass!

 

 

I wish you luck with your decision-making/gear choices and FWIW speedy healing.

[Tonysounds]

The Moog 37 is a beast. Having used miniMonstah and iMini, I can tell you....NO COMPARISON.

 

And like a real instrument, the sound and feel of the machine inspire you to do things that you just wont on an iRig.

[Tonysounds]

And I carry it in a Moog bag that I throw an extra piece of foam into. Not heavy at all. And if you're able to carry a PX5, you'll carry this just fine.

[Tonysounds]

And I carry it in a Moog bag that I throw an extra piece of foam into. Not heavy at all. And if you're able to carry a PX5, you'll carry this just fine.

[brenner13]

I love all the synths on my iPad, but concur with many that hardware is so much more fun, especially in a live gigging sitch. I got to mess with a Poly Evolver the other day...knobby synths are a HOOT!

[ProfD]

The Moog 37 is a beast. Having used miniMonstah and iMini, I can tell you....NO COMPARISON.

 

And like a real instrument, the sound and feel of the machine inspire you to do things that you just wont on an iRig.

Absolutely. My Sub 37 has a permanent place in the rig. It ain't going nowhere.

[Redknife]

Road trip!

I drove to Charlotte last night to Sam Ash. They had a sub 37 on the floor. No stock for sale- the floor model was Moog's on loan.

 

The only downer was that the sub 37 was connected to a Roland kc350 in a large open space. Forgot my headphones (and chainsaw). There was just no bass to the sound which I know is due to the amp and space.

 

One thing I noticed is that patch volume is all over the place and as you tweak, sometimes that affects the volume quite a bit as well. I have never had a knobby analog synth so I think I just need time with the board.

 

I think I'm going with the sub 37. Rise could be a late '16 or '17 acquisition.

 

Getting the sub 37 through the finance committee was a little rough as the purchase appears to be "another keyboard". The Rise, which the other committee member viewed as a cool unique expressive option, met immediate approval.

 

[mate stubb]

ALWAYS remember your chainsaw! KCs will breed and before you know it, you have a colony on your hands.

[ProfD]

One thing I noticed is that patch volume is all over the place and as you tweak, sometimes that affects the volume quite a bit as well. I have never had a knobby analog synth so I think I just need time with the board.

 

I think I'm going with the sub 37. Rise could be a late '16 or '17 acquisition.

Since analog synths require hands on time anyway, you'll be able to incorporate volume consistency across the board (pun intended) when saving your favorite sounds.

[Jimmy Keys]

 

Some questions:

 

An other thoughts about the choice at hand?

 

I owned the Rise 25, purchased it at the same time I ordered a Rise 49. I've since returned the Rise 25 and Canceled my Rise 49 pre-order.

 

The Rise definitely has potential, but it's not fully baked just yet. The deal breakers for me were the following:

1) Bluetooth MIDI might as well not even be an option. It's very unstable and the connection constantly drops. I contacted support and they said they are aware, but plan on making it better.

 

2) If you want to connect to the iPad without Bluetooth and instead use the camera kit you have to first hook the Rise up to a hub then connect the hub to the camera kit. I know it sounds crazy, and it is, but you can't directly connect the Rise to the iPad.

 

3) Equator is very resource intensive and chews up a decent laptop.

 

4) I got a lot of fatigue playing this thing.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's got a lot of potential, but I'm waiting for the next version where I think they will have all this stuff worked out.

[Redknife]

Thanks for those hands-on thoughts about the rise, Jimmy Keys.

My sub 37 is on order and the Rise is canceled.

 

I am wondering about effects. In my home Studio I have an Allen-Heath mixer with onboard effects, a Mac With effects, or an old Midiverb.

 

What should I be thinking about for portable effects for the Sub 37? Moogerfooger? I searched a lot of threads here and read comments on Moog forums. Sorry if analog synth outboard effects or specifically sub 37 outboard effects is a covered topic.

[ProfD]

I am wondering about effects. In my home Studio I have an Allen-Heath mixer with onboard effects, a Mac With effects, or an old Midiverb.

 

What should I be thinking about for portable effects for the Sub 37?

Spend some time programming the Sub 37. Effects may not be needed. Otherwise, that Midiverb should be good enough.

[analogman1]

ISEM is one of my faves as well!!!