Kurzweil KB3, Kronos CX3, etc

[ap297]

Looking for a "bread-and-butter" sounds instrument and have concluded that the organ sounds (B3-type) is what differs in most instruments. Said another way, generally speaking the pianos, electric pianos, strings, brass in offerings from yamaha roland korg kurzweil are all quite capable. Its the organ sounds that differ in quality. Wish yamaha put a clonewheel in their MOXF8-type instruments - but that aint gonna happen!

[Nordude]

For me and for organs, the Kurz PC3 stands above the Roland/Yamaha/Korg offerings in B&B boards. To my ears, esp. Yamaha fell short in organs up to and including the Motif ES. Later incarnations of Yamaha synths have not reached me, I must confess.

When organs are not that important, the scores may vary. Yamaha does other things quite well.

[Delaware Dave]

The CX3 on the Kronos trumps KB3. If you're talking the Forte then the Forte piano and EP's trump the Kronos. I don't think that you can go wrong with either keyboard. The Forte is newer and still being developed. Kurz upgraded the PC3 for a good six years so there will be alot coming yet with the Forte. The Forte powers up in about 12 seconds, the Kronos in almost two minutes.

[AnotherScott]

Wish yamaha put a clonewheel in their MOXF8-type instruments - but that aint gonna happen!

I guess they'd say you could add a Reface YC.

[marczellm]

In my greatly subjective opinion

Casio < Kurzweil KB3 < Roland SN < Korg CX3 < Nord

[ElmerJFudd]

There is an organ in the Montage - it apparently does use the faders as drawbars, but again - it feels like a half hearted effort as on the Motifs. The Reface YC is as close as they've gotten in a long time - that engine on a entry to mid tier Yamaha (think MOXF or MX61) with the thoughtfulness of a proper number of faders as drawbars and the leslie speed lever would be a welcome change of direction from Yamaha.

 

Right now there are options for single manual synths that do a clone:

PC3K/A or Artis 7 with KB3

Kronos 61 with CX-3

Nord Stage EX Compact, Stage 2 SW73 - although these forgo drawbars for their button scheme.

Roland VR-09

Casio XW-P1

Nord Electro 5D - although this is shoddy, as it's just a simple sample synth - not a VA engine or anything cool like that off their Stage, Wave, or Lead

 

But very little in the way of single manual clones that do a synth.

Roland VR-09 - this is very much a hybrid instrument

Nord Stage EX Compact, Stage 2 SW73 - same here

Hammond SK1 - also a sample player like the Nord Electro 5D, not a VA synth

 

I was hoping the Crumar Mojo61 would be a break through on this issue since it has the Gemini hardware inside and could have been design to offer their GVA-1 virtual analogue synth. But physically, it's not laid out with all the controls and feedback that you would want on a synth. It's very much a pure clonewheel with the option to play a few EP sounds.

 

I personally would be very excited if developers would start with a good clonewheel organ and design a synth around that instrument (real drawbars, waterfall keys, dedicated switched and buttons for the clone) rather than the opposite (starting with a synth that has a clone engine). Our best shot at such an instrument is GSi offering their DMC-122 in single manual format - 73 keys please. Roland venturing into VR-760/700 territory again (this time thinking very carefully about the features organ players would want - like the ability to run the synth and organ sounds out in split mono). Or Korg/Vox delivering on their reboot of the Vox Continental line. Although I pray they add a synth and not just samples.

 

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

The PC3 series has the previously unreleased virtual analog VA1 synth in it.

[Mighty Ferguson]

I've heard the Kurz KB3 engine (although not played it myself, so take this for what it's worth) and I'd give the edge to CX-3 in the Kronos. But I think it's worth pointing out that any of the clonewheel engines discussed in this thread can be helped quite a bit by running them through a Vent. It seems like the tonewheel sims are usually pretty decent but the overall sound falls apart a bit due to being put through a weak Leslie sim. It's especially useful when the keyboard can run the organ sounds out a separate output. I'm doing this with the Kronos, and while it might not stand up to something like a Mojo in an organ trio setting, you can get pretty close to that level of sound quality, and it will sound great in a full band context.

[I-missRichardTee]

I personally would be very excited if developers would start with a good clonewheel organ and design a synth around that instrument (real drawbars, waterfall keys, dedicated switched and buttons for the clone) rather than the opposite (starting with a synth that has a clone engine). Our best shot at such an instrument is GSi offering their DMC-122 in single manual format - 73 keys please. Roland venturing into VR-760/700 territory again (this time thinking very carefully about the features organ players would want - like the ability to run the synth and organ sounds out in split mono). Or Korg/Vox delivering on their reboot of the Vox Continental line. Although I pray they add a synth and not just samples.

end

 

Yes, built around a solid clone wheel, because the Bread and butter keyboards generally fail with organ.

But the problem is nonweighted for B3 and weighted for pianos and EP's

 

Possible solution

a dbl manual with a semi weighted in one manual for pianos and a lighter action for organ, but in maybe 61 or 73 notes!

[stevie b]

I've been pondering the O-Synth question for a while.

 

IMO the best contenders with unweighted boards are:

Kurzweil PC3 series

Nord stage compact

Roland V Series

 

More info in this previous post:

 

OSynth Thread

[Delaware Dave]

You mean the jamkey?

 

http://www.diversi.us/images/JamKey/JKRedLg_1.png

[ElmerJFudd]

Only downside to the JamKey is:

 

Sells for $2,475.00 - $2,595.00 and it's a soundless controller.

 

It has an unmodified Fatar TP8O action

 

The hammer action is "premium" Fatar 73 key... what, TP100? TP-40x?

 

You'll want to add $750 to that to install an HX3

 

You'll need another module or PC/Tablet whatever for your synth and AP/EP sounds

 

Or get a GSi Gemini which would do it all... at $1199 for the module - although the $899 card is probably better matched with the DMC-122, which isn't offered in a weighted lower action, or single manual yet.

 

It's 50lbs with just organ actions, 69lbs if you go for the one with the hammer action downstairs.