OT: When Education Attacks

[Theo Verelst]

Probably my musical efforts from the start have been of a freedom loving and serious persuasion, like student+people club I was most at home at.

 

However, being an f*ing nazi (sorry for the word) is a way to get a lot of music related thing sorted out. We can't all be the lead singer woman/girl with the nice thingies, so coming across as teaching has a potential downside. It's not always popular, and of course the best way to get respect either way, is to make sure you're right!

 

I propose the separation in the discussion between the choir boys, and for lack of better short description, the WASPs or something. I'd like the pop music to be on the right side of things and propose the protesting and good values there were in it when I was a kid to return.

 

Besides being a nerd, choirboys who insist on some (unnatural) form of hypocrite hierarchy aren't worthy of my band efforts, educated or not. Idem for those "in da house", unless maybe, they want out or something.

 

T.

[cgiles]

Judging by the responses, seems like every musician here belongs to the 'educated class', so who are the oppressors? Well I guess Theo COULD be one if I knew what he was saying.....but whatever it is, I'm sure it's right on the mark.....maybe....probably.....possibly....whatever.

 

chas

[ademus]

I am a 10th grade dropout. But, have educated myself through books and ( recently) electronic mediums.

 

I've played with many college graduates who would, unashamedly, boast of their academic acihevments.

 

But, when it came down to what chord is being played, how to get the guard dogs away from the trailer, making a deal with the biker gang that paid us previous and couldn't understand that " no generator" = no music.

 

These guys are worthless. Try telling a guitarist with a masters in music that Seperate Ways has no dominant chords in it.......

[I-missRichardTee]

Disclaimer: This does not apply to the classical field of music, which is not my area of knowledge.

 

Music talent and experience is what counts.

In my experience, I dont think a music school education NECESSARILY gives that player any advantage over e.g. Tee. ( Tee went the self taught , private lessons route) .

I am tempted to say, the educated are almost more apt to over-intellectualize what is essentially a non intellectual act.. playing music.

But I wont, because there are too many variables. Herbie Hancock, one of my heroes, was well educated.

It comes down to talent and experience .

Two of the greatest players of 20th Century did not study music FORMALLY Buddy Rich and Erroll Garner.

But it is a fallacy to say they did not STUDY music. They studied music intensely in their way.

Now I have heard BB King mix major and minor intervals on a minor Blues.. Who am I to whip my formal theory on Mr King? Do you see? I am not going to say he is wrong, because his playing is so uncommonly special. No, theory ought to learn From the Artist in that case.

Music theory, as best I understand it ( a poor uneducated sort ) was derived at least partly if not mainly, through the observation of composers practices.

If BB King wants to hit a major note in a minor Blues, well my mind has just been opened.

I am not knocking theory.. My teachers taught me via classical theory.. and I very much value that.

[Bossbandbob]

In both of my bands, I have the highest Degree (MFA Painting) and I teach art in HS but that don't mean squat. We feel all of equal par as musicians and have a great chemistry. "We learned more from a 3 minute record,baby, than we ever learned in school."

We all have nicknames in one of the bands in which, for some reason, they started calling me "The Professor."

[Steve LeBlanc]

The original topic, as I read it, isn't about music education versus self-taught but since some of the answers went there...

 

My personal experience in this regard has been kinda' depressing. I'm not the most up on music theory these days like I used to be but I think my musical education helps me all the time in music. That said, I have never downplayed any self-taught musician for his/her lack of education alone. I respect tons of them just as much as my more educated mentors.

 

A lot of the time it seems like educated musicians can't get the same respect from the self-taught crowd.

 

I worked with a well-respected and known rock/pop producer a few years ago who poo poo'd educated players a lot, and attacked me over it. He'd keep talking about Benmont Tench and how he can play anything...I love Benmont Tench's playing on a lot of records but I don't think better is the word for what he does nor do I think his lack of formal education has anything to do with how good and liked he is.

 

We're all born with a unique thing, if we find the best way to convey it and it resonates with people, that is fantastic. I don't think education or lack thereof have much to do with it.

 

As far as just being formally educated in general, well, I failed at that in life but love to hang out with people who did better. I do see that some people don't, it must be insecurity of some sort.