Kurzweil Forte Compare Fender Rhodes

[pawel]

Hi

This is my Movie:

Best Regards.

Paul

[tsaub]

Things sounded great. The forte had a beefier mid range, but overall, I thought very acceptable.

[Al Coda]

Things sounded great. The forte had a beefier mid range, but overall, I thought very acceptable.

 

Hard to compare.

The Forte´s samples come from a different (Fender-) Rhodes (my guess) and every Rhodes out there sounds different even perfectly voiced.

 

The real Rhodes´ bell tone is much brighter in that video but that doesn´t mean the Forte´s Rhodes sounds more dull or has beefier midrange in the samples.

It´s probably just only a matter of the EQ settings of that program or some layers of that program.

 

For that pure sound, both sound good IMO.

I´ve seen MANY real Rhodes´ sounding like s##t and offering a worst case action,- so FORTE is definitely an improvement over most Rhodes pianos existing.

 

I wonder why this guy already has one for that comparison.

Do they ship already, or are they available only in Poland these days ?

 

 

A.C.

[Dana.]

The Forte´s samples come from a different (Fender-) Rhodes (my guess) and every Rhodes out there sounds different even perfectly voiced.

 

The real Rhodes´ bell tone is much brighter in that video but that doesn´t mean the Forte´s Rhodes sounds more dull or has beefier midrange in the samples.

It´s probably just only a matter of the EQ settings of that program or some layers of that program.

+1

 

This is one of the better comparisons I've heard. Others involving Nord and the SV-1 haven't fared as well.

[drawback]

I wonder why this guy already has one for that comparison.

 

Sweetwater has it in stock...

 

From the few online demos I've heard, Forte sounds like Kurzweil has just set a new standard.

[Kawai James]

Wow, very nice!

 

Some rather sexy licks in there too.

[pawel]

I got a sneak preview of it for testing.

[1203]

The new Kurzweil Rhodes sounds very similar to the last Nord Rhodes ("amped", Nr. 7) which Nord bought from Sampletekk. Could it be that Kurzweil did the same? Hear the demos on Kurzweil.com - one of these Rhodes sounds like new Nord/Sampletekk.

[16251]

Just wanted to add this video so people can compare and comment. The Forte and CP4 Rhodes sound were discussed in a recent thread. This video appears to use same Fender Rhodes for comparison.

 

 

[video:youtube]

[Dana.]

Just wanted to add this video so people can compare and comment. The Forte and CP4 Rhodes sound were discussed in a recent thread. This video appears to use same Fender Rhodes for comparison.

 

 

[video:youtube]

Once again, it's hard to compare because they're different Rhodes models.

 

Velocity issues notwithstanding, I prefer the basic tone of some of the Rhodes in the Motif series to what's in the CP4.

 

It's interesting to me that there isn't that much differentiation between the various Rhodes models in the CP4 -- they're all pretty crispy. I wonder why Yamaha decided to go in this direction. In a live setting, the Motif Rhodes sounds are still excellent, and the variety means you can sound like Bob James or George Duke or Steely Dan or whoever you want pretty easily. The CP4 seems more limiting. It doesn't seem like you could dial in a darker, more Herbie-like sound, or a softer, plunkier sparkle top sound. :idk

[AnotherScott]

And another...

 

[video:youtube]

[burningbusch]

I thought the Kurzweil sounded excellent in that particular demo. Much better than the other usual suspects. It sounds full, authentic. If I have any complaint from the demo I would like the release samples to be louder. You can hear it on single notes when he plays the Rhodes that the releases are strong, where on the Kurzweil they are much less so. I finally figured out how to do release samples properly on the Kronos with EPs/APs so for the last three weeks I've been focused on release samples. On Scarbee, they are very pronounced and one of the reasons it sounds do good.

 

Anyway here's a quick cut of my Mark V in the Kronos with release samples implemented.

 

Purgatory Creek Soundware Mark V (with release samples)

 

Busch.

[Dana.]

Sounds excellent, Busch.

[ksoper]

Great job, pawel! Sounds great.

[Theo Verelst]

I think, after listening to all the above demos on my big (and usually quite neutral) monitoring system, that apart from some more and some less clear digital recording (general) issues, the real Rhodes sounds the most pleasant, and the most variable within the parameter space of it's own type of sound (a '73 if the front panel says it right: I 'm by no means the possessor of a collector type of knowledge of these nice sounding machines).

 

I think the particular Kurz sample might bore soon, and to my ears it sound to perky about insisting it defeats a RD300 Rhodes sound, without minding chords volume evenness and certain averaging measures (which a RD300 can do nice). For the rest it sounds like a happening sound, but I don't think I'd like it overly much.

 

Besides the real Rhodes, I like the quality of the CP4 most, and I have the impression it will prove the most usable, even though I think the dialed in sound is far from perfect, especially the higher range. I didn't try to edit this particular type of Rhodes sound to work (much) better, but since the presets are IMO so-so often, I think it might be possible to make it smoother and more interesting.

 

The Korg and the sample sound pretty good, but with my current ideas, I'd only find them o.k. in the play-ability department the way I prefer it.

 

T.

 

[lekanout]

Théo:

Do you play these keyboards or owned them,or is it just based on utube videos?

 

It's interesting to me that there isn't that much differentiation between the various Rhodes models in the CP4 -- they're all pretty crispy. I wonder why Yamaha decided to go in this direction. In a live setting, the Motif Rhodes sounds are still excellent, and the variety means you can sound like Bob James or George Duke or Steely Dan or whoever you want pretty easily. The CP4 seems more limiting. It doesn't seem like you could dial in a darker, more Herbie-like sound, or a softer, plunkier sparkle top sound.

 

While i like a lot the motif series and made so many gigs with a motif xf,i found personnally more in the cp4 rhodes.

The motif makes a good job,but when i'm playing my cp4 i have a better connection,a more organic and alive sound.

 

Maybe it's just me..

 

honestly,i don't know how you can feel all that on videos..

I personnally can't do that.

I like all these rhodes sounds(yamaha,roland,korg,kurz...)but the truth come when you practise a lot these keyboards.

A sound is a balance between a keybed,samples and modelisation(sometimes),a digital engine...and your fingers.

 

I bought 2 month ago the cp4 and the rd800,and the more i practise with both,the most i feel the engine between them.

And with all the parameters you can tweak with theses,i can have the "kind of" motif sound with a cp4...or even with a korg why not.

(mr weiser can make so many different sounds and color with these forte rhodes samples just by programming)

 

I don't know if i am alone here to think like that,but i think i can't be sure about a keyboard sound if i don't play it some days or a month(at minima)

 

And i 'm trying always to forget specs to just let my vibes tells me with my fingers..

I never try to think about what is bad in the samples because there is always something wrong you can find in a sample.

(and the audience absolutly can't feel all that)

 

What do you think about that?

 

[Dave Weiser]

Glad to hear you guys dig the Forte.

That's the most fun I've ever had on a sound design project.

 

One thing to keep in mind... as far as I can tell, the video only features one Rhodes preset out of many. Between the 73 and 77 samples and a variety of synthesis tricks I was able to get a wide variety of Rhodes sounds out of the Forte. Most of them can be adjusted with sliders to extensively shape and fine tune the sound.

 

Anyone with questions on the Forte EPs and Clavs can feel free to shoot me an email anytime. weiserdav@gmail.com

 

Some are based on famous recordings, others are based on simply playing a real Rhodes.

[pawel]

Just wanted to add this video so people can compare and comment. The Forte and CP4 Rhodes sound were discussed in a recent thread. This video appears to use same Fender Rhodes for comparison.

 

 

[video:youtube]

Video of CP4 was recorded directly from Rhodes, and Forte by the original Cabinet.

[Al Coda]

Sounds excellent, Busch.

 

 

THIS !

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

The new Kurzweil Rhodes sounds very similar to the last Nord Rhodes ("amped", Nr. 7) which Nord bought from Sampletekk. Could it be that Kurzweil did the same? Hear the demos on Kurzweil.com - one of these Rhodes sounds like new Nord/Sampletekk.

 

I think it doesn´t make sense comparing todays software modelled or sampled (Fender-) Rhodes emulations w/ the existing originals out there.

For all youngsters, it might be important info that it was already hard to find a great sounding (Fender-) Rhodes when these were manufactured, distributed and sold new.

The absolute normal behaviour of most (Fender-) Rhodes owners was tweaking the instrument by trying out almost any tricks being published and experimenting w/ almost any EQ and stomp box (incl. wah pedal, ring-mod and compressors) available on the market to find some kind of "individual" sound w/ that "piano",- and I won´t forget to mention that tweaking the action was also an important task.

 

I also think that happend much more than w/ any Wurlitzer piano.

 

There are (Fender-) Rhodes sounds which are hard to differenciate from the Wurly,- think of the discussion if "The Doors" used a Rhodes or a Wurly for "Riders on the Storm" and there are also Joe Zawinulish sounds from the Rhodes you won´t accept as "the Rhodes sound", let´s say compared to Richard T´s or Bob James´ Rhodes and so on.

In fact, it really depended on the music style recorded how it sounded because it was tweaked to sound good w/ that style.

 

I´d say it was just only some kind of electromagnetic sound source feeding sound-modifying gear, just like a electric guitar where the sound doesn´t come from the guitar alone.

 

Now, when it comes to the emulation of (Fender-) Rhodes EP sounds, I´d prefer exactly THAT instrument allowing the widest range of tweaks to that sampled or modelled basic sound.

I have no idea how much a modelled Rhodes in a Yammi CP-4 can be tweaked but I know (from PC3) that Kurzweil VAST allows a lot of tweaking of samples or specific layers (of samples).

 

I see what Burnigbush is doing w/ his KORG Kronos and what he does is amazing too !

It tells me times never changed.

We have different technology, for sure more complex, but there´s ONE decision to make,- use the presets or make your own sounds.

Bush buyed a machine, recognized it´s possibilities, gives a s##t on stock patches and makes HIS sounds !

Congrats Bush !!!

 

In the past, I´ve read an interview w/ Rick Wakeman.

The Prophet 5 was just released and he had one ...

After he commented about what this machine replaces in general, his advice was deleting all the factory patches and doing your own.

 

He was right, I think.

 

So, go out and choose what works best for you and your imagination what "the Rhodes sound" is,- or buy the most flexible engine and tweak it to your taste.

 

A.C.

 

 

[DaBous]

Glad to hear you guys dig the Forte.

That's the most fun I've ever had on a sound design project.

 

One thing to keep in mind... as far as I can tell, the video only features one Rhodes preset out of many. Between the 73 and 77 samples and a variety of synthesis tricks I was able to get a wide variety of Rhodes sounds out of the Forte. Most of them can be adjusted with sliders to extensively shape and fine tune the sound.

 

Anyone with questions on the Forte EPs and Clavs can feel free to shoot me an email anytime. weiserdav@gmail.com

 

Some are based on famous recordings, others are based on simply playing a real Rhodes.

 

Hey Dave

 

Nice work on the EP patches. The soundcloud demos are impressive.

 

My Forte arrives tomorrow. Looking forward to being a Kurzweil owner again. It has been a while.

 

If I get a chance I will post some first impressions on Monday as I am planning on using it at my gig Saturday night. I use EP patches a lot with this band.

 

Cheers

 

[16251]

What I take away from the Forte and others presented in same type of video is that I'm glad the major DP's have finally given us EP's that sound like the real thing. Every DP before my current CP4 were a bunch of bad imitators.

 

I'll also add that that Rhodes from Busch is killer.