Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[James M Day]

Hahaha

[Raymb1]

"be careful to keep it (the hi pass filter) under 125Hz tops, even better may be 80-100Hz and also not too much level (just enough to feel it). When I run the sub after the SS3 it's easy to plug and unplug the sub and judge the difference. Basically, it's just the under 100Hz LF that needs support."

 

The above is a quote from Aspen. You already have more than enough to use for a sub. The volume on a sub should be where you can just barely feel it, unless you need booming bass lines.

[RandyFF]

Hum / buzz problems!

 

Am using a big battery and 400 watt inverter. I've driven 2 other amps with this setup and had no noise (Mackie Freeplay and Roland street cube ex).

 

I tried the Ebtech hum x, no difference. Read up on inverters, most are modified sine wave which can introduce noise, the pure sine wave inverters are pricey, may have to try that, not sure what else to try.

[Raymb1]

Hum / buzz problems!

 

Am using a big battery and 400 watt inverter. I've driven 2 other amps with this setup and had no noise (Mackie Freeplay and Roland street cube ex).

 

I tried the Ebtech hum x, no difference. Read up on inverters, most are modified sine wave which can introduce noise, the pure sine wave inverters are pricey, may have to try that, not sure what else to try.

 

Is the hum only at home or on the gig also? I have a slight hum at home but none on any of my gigs. The hum is less noticeable with the Ebtech. Aspen suggested that it may be caused by dimmer switches or the way my condo is wired.

[midinut]

"be careful to keep it (the hi pass filter) under 125Hz tops, even better may be 80-100Hz and also not too much level (just enough to feel it). When I run the sub after the SS3 it's easy to plug and unplug the sub and judge the difference. Basically, it's just the under 100Hz LF that needs support."

 

The above is a quote from Aspen. You already have more than enough to use for a sub. The volume on a sub should be where you can just barely feel it, unless you need booming bass lines.

 

Maybe I misunderstand what was said umpteen pages ago about hooking up the Behringer B1200. I'm coming out of my mixer into the sub first (L&R), then out of the sub into the SSv3 (L&R). Should I try it the other way? Come out of the mixer into the SSv3 then mono out to the sub? Just curious. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anything to try it, just wondering how most of you are doing it. Plus the way I'm running it now, I could always send the sub out of the SSv3 to FOH if needed. Not sure I could do that the other way.

[Raymb1]

I'm pretty sure the reason for coming out of the Behringer sub to the SS is for the cross-over.

[James M Day]

FWIW, I am playing bass keys also tonight, that's why I'll even mess with a sub. Just unboxed and tried it, need to try it on a gig for sure to see if it's good. In my house it sounded clear but the width control seems to make it sound weird and unnatural. Will keep fiddling..

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

I'm pretty sure the reason for coming out of the Behringer sub to the SS is for the cross-over.

 

^^^^^

 

The idea is that you're not asking the SS3 to handle those <100Hz signals at all, giving it more headroom for the rest. Though in Season 4, Episode 7, Aspen said he does it the other way around (SS3>Sub) anyway, since (if memory serves) he thinks it provides a smoother transition in sound, and this outweighs any small boost in signal strength the cross-over provides.

[Aspen]

Hi All, love the interactive dialog lately, seems there are so many CPS customer service reps on this site to help out w/ the questions for those who do not want to re read 135+ pages (can't blame them really). I am truly grateful and humbled to be in your company, many thanks guys!

 

Knowing that so many of us never read the manual, myself included, I decided to make an "SS3 Operational Manual Video" last week. It's just a quick and brief overview (well...as compared to my usual epic rants) and I have just included the "quick start" basics.

 

I also added a thank you and a plug to you KB Gurus and SS3 pioneers here on this amazing forum, it was actually you early adopters here on KC who discovered the "sideways" application for those close quarter positioning....for which I am very grateful!

 

Most of you probably know all this stuff on the video (and more), but anyway, I hope you like it:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzPCYg5QA0c

 

[Raymb1]

+1 Nice video. Do you think it makes a difference when using the SS in a horizontal position if the front of the side speaker is facing up or down? Ray

 

P.S. Just tried it both ways. Can't hear a noticeable difference.

[Aspen]

+1 Nice video. Do you think it makes a difference when using the SS in a horizontal position if the front of the side speaker is facing up or down? Ray

 

Thanks!

 

re; "is there a difference b/w which side is up?" Well, maybe a small difference at the most. But the "stereo 3D" image shouldn't change at all...while the bloom distance is shortened (improved in most cases).

 

Certainly BOTH the -L&-R are emitting equally from either side of that Side speaker whether it's facing up or down (much like the combined +R & +L emit equally from the Front speaker). I think there has been some confusion about that issue expressed here back in Season 2, episode 4. To prove my point about that, put the SS3 in the center of a room and walk around it full circle. You will notice the L&R image "locations" never changes! In fact, I sometimes like facing the SS3 directly into a wall or corner, then standing back to listen to the rear of the SS3...something you would never think to do with a conventional speaker...and strangely, it sounds pretty good!

 

It is true, one side of the Side speaker will have a bit more HF (the cone side), so it could be you would hear a slight change in HF depending on which side you lay it on. Speaker cone facing up may have a bit more HF to hit the back wall, while speaker cone side facing down to a carpet will tend to absorb and reduce HF.

 

But basically I have tried it both ways, and I hear very little difference. Frankly I like the Horizontal position image both ways (hmmm, maybe should we rename this the "missionary position"?). Anyway you lay it guys, this is a great solution especially on tight stages.

 

However, I do think leaving it on the floor will allow both the Front and Side to "couple" better w/the floor and in so doing produce more low frequency.

 

Raising it on that amp stand helps projection but then it loses a tiny but of low end. Perhaps a worthy trade off in some situations where projection is more needed than added LF response.

[drawback]

"be careful to keep it (the hi pass filter) under 125Hz tops, even better may be 80-100Hz and also not too much level (just enough to feel it). When I run the sub after the SS3 it's easy to plug and unplug the sub and judge the difference. Basically, it's just the under 100Hz LF that needs support."

 

The above is a quote from Aspen. You already have more than enough to use for a sub. The volume on a sub should be where you can just barely feel it, unless you need booming bass lines.

 

Maybe I misunderstand what was said umpteen pages ago about hooking up the Behringer B1200. I'm coming out of my mixer into the sub first (L&R), then out of the sub into the SSv3 (L&R). Should I try it the other way? Come out of the mixer into the SSv3 then mono out to the sub? Just curious. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anything to try it, just wondering how most of you are doing it. Plus the way I'm running it now, I could always send the sub out of the SSv3 to FOH if needed. Not sure I could do that the other way.

 

I bought a B1200D shortly after I got my SSv3 and hooked it up this way. Two advantages: the crossover and the stereo feeds to FOH. It filled out the sound nicely but after reading about others' discussion surrounding this subwoofer and some going with a simple bass amp instead, I had second thoughts about using the B1200D at all, so I sold it.

 

I had a couple of gigs where I needed to play keyboard bass, and since I can send the bass split through a separate output on my Nord Stage to an actual bass amp, there's a definite advantage to using a dedicated bass amp instead of running it all through a subwoofer connected to the Spacestation: the bass sounds like a bass. I can set up the bass amp's EQ to go full range, or not, and get it to sound like actual bass notes. A sub doesn't do much more than provide low end to the overall keyboard sound. It doesn't do any justice to bass, and you can't use a subwoofer as stand-alone for bass. It's just low end rumble.

 

When I play with a bass player, I just use the SSv3's sub-out to the bass amp and that rounds the tone out nicely. If FOH is involved, just DI the keys to the board and use the thru-puts to the SSv3 as my monitor.

 

Hey Aspen, love the video. I've used the same amp stand and bounced the side speaker off the floor, but on a carpeted stage, I'll switch it around and reflect it off the back wall... might make for louder results although I've never had to turn it up much past half-way.

 

 

 

[Bill Spencer]

All I can say is WOW!

 

 

I also need a super small mixer with at least two mic inputs, fx, 3band eq. Any thoughts?

 

 

http://www.alesis.com/multimix6fx

[cphollis]

Not that it matters, but it looks like this thread wins the prize for the most posts on this esteemed forum.

 

Ever.

[Raymb1]

Great success story for a great product. CPS SS V3

[El Lobo]

I also need a super small mixer with at least two mic inputs, fx, 3band eq. Any thoughts?

 

http://www.alesis.com/multimix6fx

does not have 3 band eq

[jimkost2002]

The alesis is cheaply made .....buy a comparable mackie

[Bill Spencer]

I also need a super small mixer with at least two mic inputs, fx, 3band eq. Any thoughts?

 

http://www.alesis.com/multimix6fx

does not have 3 band eq

 

Yes, it do.

 

 

And the FX are decent sounding. And it's been rock-solid reliable. And it sits neatly on top of my PC3K.

 

But it's just a suggestion.

 

 

Mixer Configuration

6x2

 

Mic Inputs (XLR)/Line Inputs

2/6

 

# of Inserts/Direct Outs

0.0

 

# of Aux Sends/Returns/Type

(1/2) 1/4"

 

EQ Type

3-band; shelving

 

 

Frequency Response (Hz-kHz)

20 Hz-22 kHz

 

Total Harmonic Distortion (%)

<0.01% THD+N

 

Dynamic Range (dB)

>100 dB

 

Phantom Power

2@48V

[Bill Spencer]

I've used the SS on a number of gigs now. Most recently a duo gig where I ran keys, key bass and vocals through it for a small room. Worked great. As countless other posts have mentioned, placement is critical and reflective surfaces help a lot. Comments I've gotten are that it's 'sweeter' sounding than my old 2xK8 setup, although I feel the K8s are crisper and more HiFi.

 

Today, another duo gig outside, but there's a wall and corner behind us I'll use. Tomorrow night, a Big Band gig at Pebble Beach with only a curtain behind us, all AP sounds.

[Danny Linguini]

 

http://www.alesis.com/multimix6fx

Yes, it do.

 

And the FX are decent sounding. And it's been rock-solid reliable. And it sits neatly on top of my PC3K.

I have an older one of these that works great (actually it's the 8-channel). But because it's getting a little long in the tooth, I went to replace it last year, starting with the newer Alesis model. But the sound levels in the stereo channels were so low, I could barely hear any of my keyboards or anything else I ran through them, even with everything turned all the way up. The mic and single-line-in channels (1-4) were great, but the stereo channels (5/6, 7/8) were unusable ... had to return it. I couldn't find anything in the specs that would explain this, and I don't know if it was a problem with just that unit or what, but I ended up getting an Alto instead, which has worked just fine.

 

Now that I'm solo, though, a 6-channel is really all I need and certainly more space-friendly -- I might just have to give Alesis another look.

 

Does this one have a wall-wart, or an in-line transformer like the older one?

 

Edit: Crap, it appears to no longer be available. Oh well.

[El Lobo]

I also need a super small mixer with at least two mic inputs, fx, 3band eq. Any thoughts?

 

http://www.alesis.com/multimix6fx

does not have 3 band eq

Yes, it do.

You're right, I'm wrong. I was looking at the wrong one. But Musicians Friend says this model is not available. And some of the reviews say it craps out, don't buy it. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/alesis-multimix-6fx-mixer

[RandyFF]

For a small mixer I ended up ordering the Behringer QX 1002, very similar to the multi mix 6 except more stereo line in channels. It's part of the Xenyx line which has better mic preamps than the Euroboard series, and has the better Klark technic fx. It carries a 3 year warranty, which gives me more confidence tha the hit or miss quality of B products of yore.

[Bill Spencer]

I also need a super small mixer with at least two mic inputs, fx, 3band eq. Any thoughts?

 

http://www.alesis.com/multimix6fx

does not have 3 band eq

Yes, it do.

You're right, I'm wrong. I was looking at the wrong one. But Musicians Friend says this model is not available. And some of the reviews say it craps out, don't buy it. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/alesis-multimix-6fx-mixer

 

Not to argue, but mine has been rock solid, even though I bought a spare. Even survived a couple of drops. Go figure. I still don't see anything on the market with comparable features (built-in FX, all balanced ins/outs) that's small enough to fit on my keyboard. Very handy. It has a line lump style power supply, but the connector to the mixer screws in and is very robust. The connector is also readily available if you need to repair the power supply or replace it with a generic one. YMMV.

 

The Behringer looks like a good choice.

[RandyFF]

Success achieved! I was running the Space Station V.3 with a 400 Watt inverter off a large battery, getting major buzz, not the usual hum I get from wall socket power.

 

Turns out most inverters are of the modified sine wave variety, much cheaper, and what's needed is a PURE SINE WAVE INVERTER.

 

Got me a little 400 Watt psw inverter and the Space Station V.3 is now at the same level of low hum as the wall socket!

 

Also, used my Behringer QX 1002 mixer for the first time, tiny little thing with effects. It did well, and I velcroed to the top panel on my Nord Stage, a good fit. It was really nice to have mixer controls right there, especially for the microphone. However I wish the line inputs had EQ on them as well. I find it very handy for dialing in more bass.

 

Looks like this thread is finally winding down, not too many folks will learn from my experience. Methinks Aspen or some enthusiastic user could create a new thread that would be THE BEST OF all the basic suggestions with sub categories of sub amps, equing the unit, small mixers, etc.

[Danny Linguini]

Finally -- the gig report. I was supposed to go out last month, but a nasty, lingering summer cold caused my first cancellation ever. But anyway ... on to the show.

 

Again, going solo -- me, my CP4, TC Helicon, Alesis SR18 drum machine, Alesis Multimix 8 FX, SSv3, and Seismic Audio Really-Mini-Tremor subwoofer. The place is a small-medium restaurant/lounge, very informal family style dining with a bar out off to the side at the far end. I was set up pretty much against the end wall, with the whole wall to myself. I set up the board and my work table pretty much in the middle, and I put the Space Station off to the side, almost in a corner where I could angle it so that the side speakers were bouncing almost equally off a wall. This seemed to work out great for the people listening, but difficult for me because I was getting more side speaker than front. Got quite a few compliments on the sound though, so I'm guessing it did it's magic. My wife said the piano was very crisp and clear, which is unfortunately not what I was hearing, but fortunately exactly what I wanted to get. I forgot to bring my memory stick to play back from so I could hear the amp from out in the room myself; I'll definitely bring it next time.

 

As for volume, the SS could easily have overpowered the place if I wasn't careful. I had the volume on the amp about 1/4 of the way up, main out on the mixer was just a hair more than that, all of the input line levels at about 1/2, and it was just perfect for people to hear it all and still be able to converse at normal levels. I turned the mixer up a tiny bit as the night went on and most of the diners had finished, but volume is absolutely not going to be an issue (in fact I can't wait to get to a place where I can open it up a bit). On the mixer, I have a light reverb on, and I offset the vocal channel pan just a hair to the left to try to get it to come out the sides. It didn't really -- I could hear the piano, but not the vocals very well, which tells me that even off-center and with effects, it's still mostly mono and coming mostly out the front. No biggie -- didn't really expect anything different.

 

The little SA sub did exactly what I need it to do -- round out the bottom, especially for the drum machine, but also for the low piano notes. Because it's mono, I ran from the mixer to the SS, then SS sub-out to the sub. Had to turn the sub volume almost all the way up because the sub-out volume is matched to the main on the SS; but the bass was just there, adding a little more fullness, exactly what I wanted. I would rather have a setup where I could go into the sub first to have a little more control, but this setup worked just fine.

 

Toward the end of the night when there were just a few people left at the bar, I tore into I Don't Like Mondays for the first time ever live, and one of the few songs I get to really pound on the keys. I was very, very pleased with the piano noises I was hearing.

 

Overall, I'm very happy with how it went for the first time out live. I didn't have to fiddle with settings on the SS at all from how I had it set at home -- just adjust the levels of vocals, drums and piano and slight tweaks on the EQ on the mixer. I was having so much fun, I never took a break for the three hours; and for my efforts they gave me a pizza to take home on top of the regular pay. Not a bad night at all.

 

 

[Doerfler]

Most of you probably know all this stuff on the video (and more), but anyway, I hope you like it:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzPCYg5QA0c

 

so we've gone from RTFM to WTFM.

nice general overview, BTW

[Aspen]

Finally -- the gig report. I was supposed to go out last month, but a nasty, lingering summer cold caused my first cancellation ever. But anyway ... on to the show.

 

Again, going solo -- me, my CP4, TC Helicon, Alesis SR18 drum machine, Alesis Multimix 8 FX, SSv3, and Seismic Audio Really-Mini-Tremor subwoofer. The place is a small-medium restaurant/lounge, very informal family style dining with a bar out off to the side at the far end. I was set up pretty much against the end wall, with the whole wall to myself. I set up the board and my work table pretty much in the middle, and I put the Space Station off to the side, almost in a corner where I could angle it so that the side speakers were bouncing almost equally off a wall. This seemed to work out great for the people listening, but difficult for me because I was getting more side speaker than front. Got quite a few compliments on the sound though, so I'm guessing it did it's magic. My wife said the piano was very crisp and clear, which is unfortunately not what I was hearing, but fortunately exactly what I wanted to get. I forgot to bring my memory stick to play back from so I could hear the amp from out in the room myself; I'll definitely bring it next time.

 

As for volume, the SS could easily have overpowered the place if I wasn't careful. I had the volume on the amp about 1/4 of the way up, main out on the mixer was just a hair more than that, all of the input line levels at about 1/2, and it was just perfect for people to hear it all and still be able to converse at normal levels. I turned the mixer up a tiny bit as the night went on and most of the diners had finished, but volume is absolutely not going to be an issue (in fact I can't wait to get to a place where I can open it up a bit). On the mixer, I have a light reverb on, and I offset the vocal channel pan just a hair to the left to try to get it to come out the sides. It didn't really -- I could hear the piano, but not the vocals very well, which tells me that even off-center and with effects, it's still mostly mono and coming mostly out the front. No biggie -- didn't really expect anything different.

 

The little SA sub did exactly what I need it to do -- round out the bottom, especially for the drum machine, but also for the low piano notes. Because it's mono, I ran from the mixer to the SS, then SS sub-out to the sub. Had to turn the sub volume almost all the way up because the sub-out volume is matched to the main on the SS; but the bass was just there, adding a little more fullness, exactly what I wanted. I would rather have a setup where I could go into the sub first to have a little more control, but this setup worked just fine.

 

Toward the end of the night when there were just a few people left at the bar, I tore into I Don't Like Mondays for the first time ever live, and one of the few songs I get to really pound on the keys. I was very, very pleased with the piano noises I was hearing.

 

Overall, I'm very happy with how it went for the first time out live. I didn't have to fiddle with settings on the SS at all from how I had it set at home -- just adjust the levels of vocals, drums and piano and slight tweaks on the EQ on the mixer. I was having so much fun, I never took a break for the three hours; and for my efforts they gave me a pizza to take home on top of the regular pay. Not a bad night at all.

 

Excellent gig report bear, many thanks! Next time I believe it will be even better. Our CPS technology seems to improve the more times you use it....it will grow on you. But it also makes a pretty good 1st impression, as you shared with us.

 

Regarding improving the monitoring your piano/vocal, if the placement gave you too much side and not enough front, I would suggest 2 possible solutions; 1) adjust the angle a bit more toward you, or 2) try the horizontal position with a small wedge, with the front speaker on your side where you play.

 

I think I may have posted this new video owners manual already, if so please forgive my redundancy...it shows various positioning techniques...including the horizontal approach:

 

https://youtu.be/dzPCYg5QA0c

 

Thanks again for the informative gig report, you really made my day!

 

FYI, I will have some new CPS stuff to be announced next week, stay tuned....

[Bernie9]

The video seems to show the CPS being laid on the amp stand with the magnet side down. I have been doing the opposite.

 

Bernie

[Danny Linguini]

Excellent gig report bear, many thanks! Next time I believe it will be even better. Our CPS technology seems to improve the more times you use it....it will grow on you. But it also makes a pretty good 1st impression, as you shared with us.

 

Regarding improving the monitoring your piano/vocal, if the placement gave you too much side and not enough front, I would suggest 2 possible solutions; 1) adjust the angle a bit more toward you, or 2) try the horizontal position with a small wedge, with the front speaker on your side where you play.

 

I think I may have posted this new video owners manual already, if so please forgive my redundancy...it shows various positioning techniques...including the horizontal approach:

 

https://youtu.be/dzPCYg5QA0c

 

Thanks again for the informative gig report, you really made my day!

 

FYI, I will have some new CPS stuff to be announced next week, stay tuned....

The problem I'd have had placing the SS sideways was that it was up on the little sub. But you got me to thinking -- the volume was so low at this place, I might be able to get away with the SS alone. I'm going to try that next time and see if it does the job. again, my concern there is not the piano, but the drum machine, particularly the kick. I'll mess with it at home a bit and try to get a read on that before going out again. I certainly would not mind one less box to lug around.

 

Looking forward to your next announcement!!!

[Al Quinn]

I experimented at home with SS placement in an attempt to get a good sound at close range because I don't always have room at a gig to set the SS up at a distance. With the SS horizontal on a Gator amp stand just to my side and about three feet back and the side speaker facing down I was able to hear a nice blend of the front and side speaker from the playing position. The sound of the angled up front speaker and the reflection of the side speaker off the floor combine for a nice sound even at close range. It's not the full bloom but it still provides a pleasing spatial sound. The floor is reflective (i.e., wood) which probably helped.

 

I tried this placement out at a gig Friday night and it worked great. It was a small bar and we were play mostly 70's rock which called for mostly B3, AP, and EP sounds. At the gig there was the additional benefit of a wall behind the SS which added more reflections. The SS placement worked out great. I could hear the spatial effect even though the SS was close to me. I received unsolicited compliments on my sound from a musician friend in the audience. He said he couldn't believe how good it sounded in the room and wanted to understand how it was done. He asked if I was coming through the PA; I told him I was not. That although I was connected to the PA and usually play through the PA, I took myself out completely because I wanted to experiment. To me it sounded better without being in the PA. By better I mean less confused. So, this will be my approach for future gigs in small rooms.