Roland FA-06 and FA-08

[AnotherScott]

Thanks for testing/confirming!

[paulmapp8306]

Yes you can.

 

I run an RD2000 on bottom and an FA07 on mid tier - my 07 is used for internal sounds but also as a controller for my Legend EXP , Peak and Virus Ti2 (on different midi channels). You can set each midi channel to an internal sound, and external sound or both - and you can layer/split any of the 16 channels anywhere on the board. I have patches where I have layered internal sounds with the Peak on one part of teh keybed, the EXP organ on another, and the Virus Ti on a 2rd (triggering an arp). All switchable with a single pad press in switch group mode (ie any combo of the channels saved to a pad - with 16 possible combos). This is configurable on a studio set level - so each song has its own set, and each set can be totally different with 16 options.

 

Triggering Pads doesnt send midi. Again I have a Duran set for Hungry like the wolf. I use samples for the intro laugh and the panting in the middle - I use the Virus for the arp patterns (player from the lower part of the FA keybed) and the FAs internal sounds for the string/pads (played from the upper part).

[AnotherScott]

I had the issue you are talking about when I was controlling FA from another keyboard controller but then it is external keyboard. Seems that split function in FA sets the transmit zones but if you are controlling a "splitted zone" from external controller, you have to set the keys range in that controller, FA is not able to set the range of received notes.

Yes, that's what I had mixed up, that MIDI limitation in the FA is with receiving MIDI not sending. If you want to play a split of multiple FA sounds from an external controller, you have to have those capabilities built into the controller. This is similar to the (in)famous MODX/Montage limitation that, to split certain combinations of its sounds between your internal and external keys, you have to have multi-channel MIDI capabilities in your external controller (or an intermediate device to do that mapping). This has been widely criticized regarding the Yamaha, but hardly mentioned about the Roland.

 

And something else pointed out by a post of paulmapps' elsewhere, which I hadn't realized... as a MIDI controller, the FA can't octave-shift. That's actually a pretty significant limitation on the sending side. It means that, for example, if you want to put an external sound on the bottom range of keys, but don't want its pitch (i.e. the sent MIDI notes) to be as low as that bottom range of keys, you'd again need to add some external device to do some MIDI remapping. (And again, the oft-criticized MIDI implementation of Montage/MODX does not have this issue.)

[Mighty Motif Max]

Yes, that's what I had mixed up, that MIDI limitation in the FA is with receiving MIDI not sending. If you want to play a split of multiple FA sounds from an external controller, you have to have those capabilities built into the controller. This is similar to the (in)famous MODX/Montage limitation that, to split certain combinations of its sounds between your internal and external keys, you have to have multi-channel MIDI capabilities in your external controller (or an intermediate device to do that mapping). This has been widely criticized regarding the Yamaha, but hardly mentioned about the Roland.

 

I wouldn't guess it's well known enough. It seems like a lot of FA owners use them as one-board setups, or have two standalone boards with no midi going on. Or they're just using the FA simply as a controller for a laptop. At least that's what I tend to see and read. I certainly didn't know that, wow.

[pawelsz]

Yes, that's what I had mixed up, that MIDI limitation in the FA is with receiving MIDI not sending. If you want to play a split of multiple FA sounds from an external controller, you have to have those capabilities built into the controller. This is similar to the (in)famous MODX/Montage limitation that, to split certain combinations of its sounds between your internal and external keys, you have to have multi-channel MIDI capabilities in your external controller (or an intermediate device to do that mapping). This has been widely criticized regarding the Yamaha, but hardly mentioned about the Roland.

 

I wouldn't guess it's well known enough. It seems like a lot of FA owners use them as one-board setups, or have two standalone boards with no midi going on. Or they're just using the FA simply as a controller for a laptop. At least that's what I tend to see and read. I certainly didn't know that, wow.

 

Seems like there is a function Remote Keyboard Switch that allows to work it the way we wanted.

 

[EscapeRocks]

Yes, that's what I had mixed up, that MIDI limitation in the FA is with receiving MIDI not sending. If you want to play a split of multiple FA sounds from an external controller, you have to have those capabilities built into the controller. This is similar to the (in)famous MODX/Montage limitation that, to split certain combinations of its sounds between your internal and external keys, you have to have multi-channel MIDI capabilities in your external controller (or an intermediate device to do that mapping). This has been widely criticized regarding the Yamaha, but hardly mentioned about the Roland.

 

I wouldn't guess it's well known enough. It seems like a lot of FA owners use them as one-board setups, or have two standalone boards with no midi going on. Or they're just using the FA simply as a controller for a laptop. At least that's what I tend to see and read. I certainly didn't know that, wow.

 

Seems like there is a function Remote Keyboard Switch that allows to work it the way we wanted.

 

 

Yeah, but even then it gets "weird" from what we consider normal controller operations.

 

I gigged with an FA-08 for a few years. It was a very good board. I never played internal sound from an eternal board, but I did use it to control many parts on my MOFX, and of course Mainstage.

 

The MOFX would send the program change to the FA-08.

[pawelsz]

Maybe it's weird, because keyboard remote switch is "replacing" the whole keyboard, it is not adding anything extra from external controller. Not playing only a specific part or channel but the whole studio set from another keyboard.

 

But I have checked this between FA and P-515. No matter what Tx channel I choose in P-515, no matter if dual or split chosen on P-515, when remote keyboard is switched on in FA, I have the exact layout of all my FA splits and layers on P-515 keys. I like it. Just like replacing built-in keybed with the other one without any messing with channels, zones etc.

[AnotherScott]

If you want to play a split of multiple FA sounds from an external controller, you have to have those capabilities built into the controller. This is similar to the (in)famous MODX/Montage limitation that, to split certain combinations of its sounds between your internal and external keys, you have to have multi-channel MIDI capabilities in your external controller (or an intermediate device to do that mapping).

Seems like there is a function Remote Keyboard Switch that allows to work it the way we wanted.

No, because the sounds triggered from external keys then exactly match the sound for the internal keys (it works the same as setting the MIDI I/O mode to "single" on the Montage/MODX, except without the Yamaha's additional ability to "override" the internal keys' setting with any other single part by using its Kybd Ctrl function... unless the FA has some equivalent to that function that I'm not aware of...?).

 

Summing up the limitations of using a single-zone external controller to play different MODX/Montage or FA sounds than you're playing on the MODX/Montage or FA itself (without adding an iPad or other MIDI routing device), as I understand it:

 

1. Single tone/part played on internal keys, a different single tone/part triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

2. Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, a different single tone/part triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

3. Single tone/part played on internal keys, multiple layered tones/parts triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

4. Single tone/part played on internal keys, multiple split tones/parts triggered from external keys: Yamaha yes, Roland no.

 

5. Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, multiple layered tones/parts triggered from external keys: Roland yes, Yamaha no.

 

6. Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, multiple split tones/parts triggered from external keys: No.

 

There are other factors to consider as well. It's possible for a Yamaha instrument sound (a given piano sound, for example) to require more than one Part. The two boards place different limitations on what multi-sound patch changes can and cannot be done seamlessly. A Roland split/layer in the above examples (where supported) can consist of as many as 16 tones that can be divided up any way (for example, 15 sounds on one board, one sound on the other), Yamaha maxes out at 8 parts from a given set of keys. Yamaha supports external controllers that have either a USB or DIN MIDI connection, Roland does not support USB-only controllers.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Summing up the limitations of using a single-zone external controller to play different MODX/Montage or FA sounds than you're playing on the MODX/Montage or FA itself (without adding an iPad or other MIDI routing device), as I understand it:

 

Single tone/part played on internal keys, a different single tone/part triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, a different single tone/part triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

Single tone/part played on internal keys, multiple layered tones/parts triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

Single tone/part played on internal keys, multiple split tones/parts triggered from external keys: Yamaha yes, Roland no.

 

Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, multiple layered tones/parts triggered from external keys: Roland yes, Yamaha no.

 

Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, multiple split tones/parts triggered from external keys: No.

 

Only if your controller can transmit multiple zones I believe. And then you would need a new controller zone setup every time your needs for key ranges changed.

[AnotherScott]

1. Single tone/part played on internal keys, a different single tone/part triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

2. Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, a different single tone/part triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

3. Single tone/part played on internal keys, multiple layered tones/parts triggered from external keys: Yes.

 

4. Single tone/part played on internal keys, multiple split tones/parts triggered from external keys: Yamaha yes, Roland no.

 

5. Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, multiple layered tones/parts triggered from external keys: Roland yes, Yamaha no.

 

6. Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, multiple split tones/parts triggered from external keys: No.

Only if your controller can transmit multiple zones I believe.

On the MODX/Montage, you connect your single-zone controller, and set the Yamaha's MIDI I/O mode to "single." This gets you half way there, you can enable up to 8 Parts on the internal keys, and (as with the Roland's Remote Keyboard Switch function) the external keys will trigger the same setup you assembled for the internal keys. Here's the other half: You click the on-screen "Kbd Ctrl" (keyboard control) button for the ONE part that you want to play from the internal keys. Now the external keyboard will play up to 8 Yamaha parts from the single-channel external controller, while you play another single part from the Yamaha's own keys. (And although the line you bolded was about layers, it works exactly the same way for for splits... one Part played on the internal keys, up to 8 split and/or layered Parts being played from the external controller, the splits are scenario 4, now that I've numbered them.)

 

On the FA, you connect your single-zone controller. Put each part that you want triggered from the external controller (and only those parts) on the same MIDI channel that your controller is transmitting on, and turn off the Keyboard Switch for those same parts so that the internal key's won't trigger them. Now you can play a single part (or even multiple split or layered parts, if you'd like, which is scenario 5) from the internal keys, while playing all those other parts we've put on a shared channel--layered--from the external controller. (This approach does not allow you to do splits from the external board, though, which is why the Roland is a No for scenario 4.)

 

I'm pretty sure that's all right, but especially since I don't have an FA myself, by all means, someone correct me if I missed something here,

 

And then you would need a new controller zone setup every time your needs for key ranges changed.

Changing key ranges is not an issue, because the bolded scenario 3 was about layers. Key ranges are required for splits, not layers, and that was addressed in scenario 4. You're right, though, that if you wanted to do splits on the external board (scenario 4), the FA would require you to have a controller that transmitted on multiple zones and yes, you'd have to change your patch on the controller whenever you were changing splits. This is not the case on the MODX/Montage, where that can all be handled on the Yamaha side. Though the Yamaha then is limited to playing only one part from its own keys.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I see, thanks for the in-depth info. At least that's a little better than it was (?). Maybe some things were added in an update.

 

I operate in scenario 5 almost all the time if I have two boards, so it still wouldn't work on the Yamaha. Why did these companies have to muddle things up like that!

[AnotherScott]

I operate in scenario 5 almost all the time if I have two boards, so it still wouldn't work on the Yamaha.

Good thing you have a Kurzweil, then! How is the Krome on this stuff?

[Mighty Motif Max]

I operate in scenario 5 almost all the time if I have two boards, so it still wouldn't work on the Yamaha.

Good thing you have a Kurzweil, then! How is the Krome on this stuff?

 

It's actually closer to a 5.5 now that I re-read it again. This is what I operate in: Multiple split/layered tones/parts played on internal keys, multiple split/layered tones/parts triggered from external keys.

 

I actually have never used the Kurzweil for that, because I bought the PC3 after the pandemic hit, and it's going to be a one-board rig that's more compact for at college (my other stuff is way too large or too limited in keys depending). I've messed around with it a little and I find that it has a very steep learning curve. I have done all my stuff with the Motif XF, and have had no issues. The only limiting factor is the limited number of 128 "combi" setup locations, either in Song or Pattern mode. In that way the Krome is vastly superior, as there are a lot more Combi locations because I can overwrite things. Performance mode on the Yamaha is limited to four sounds on one midi channel only, so useless for a two-keyboard setup with MIDI.

 

The Krome does a good job too, because you can freely assign midi channels and splits/layers just like the Motif. I can set up the same setups on the Krome as on the Motif (obviously not the same sounds or fader assignments but the same functionality). Not bad for a mid-range board. Superior to the MODX and the FA's in that way.

 

As I believe I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum, my band gigging rig is the Motif XF8 providing all the sounds and splits/layers with the Krome 61 up above as a simple midi controller transmitting on Channel 2. The Krome is also a source of backup sounds if I ever need them. An average setup that uses both boards' keybeds will have six or seven sounds split and layered across both channels.

[AnotherScott]

Maybe some things were added in an update.

Yamaha did an an additional MIDI mode ("hybrid") in an update, but what I described worked even before then. It was not immediately apparent from the manuals, though, which tell you what various parameters do, but not how to combine them to accomplish certain tasks. I only discovered that "option 3" functionality from one of Bad Mister's excellent explanations on yamahasynth.com.

[EscapeRocks]

Yeah,

 

I do the option 3 thing when using the MODX and PX-5S together. I have several programs that play some internally and some externally.

 

However, I pretty much overcame all that when incorporated Mainstage/Gigperformer back into the rig.

MODX in Local Off

So I let those programs tell the MODX which parts to trigger and from which board... the PX5S or itself.