Very broad, "thought process" question

[SHaka40]

Thanks for all the responses so far guys! It helps--not only the advice itself, but just to know that you've all dealt with such mental hang-ups too--immensely.

[TrapperJack]

Hey, Sean, there is an inner game book that is very helpful: Barry Green and Tim Gallwey wrote The Inner Game of Music. I like it. It doesn't shirk the work, but keeps you very thoughtful as you develop musicianship.

 

I am not an expert on golf, or tennis.

 

Or airport philosophers or mysticism.

 

As other contributors have suggested here, you learn to hear the modal centres by playing their defining progressions, and you get the modal notes under the fingers with strategic (thoughtful) practice. And then you can choose, as you play, to emphasise modal music, or diatonic key centres (major and minor key centres), and deploy the appropriate harmonic and melodic resources.

 

But you get to this stage of your life with planned work, and lots of it.

[CEB]

It aint working. That's the way you do it. Money for nothing and your chicks for free.

[John Tweed]

As the OP has recognised, there are two ways to think about the modes. In order to understand the relationship between these two ways, I have found it helpful to practise them in the following order:

 

C lydian

C ionian (major)

C mixolydian

C dorian

C aeolian

C phyrgian

C locrian

B lydian

B ionian

etc

 

You'll notice two things. As you move to the next mode, one note of the previous mode is flattened, and the key of the major scale upon which the mode is based will move up a fourth (G, C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, B, ... ). You can go through the full cycle of 84 modes this way. This was a daily exercise for me once upon a time, and I'm very comfortable with modes nowadays. Listener's mileage may vary.

 

[GovernorSilver]

Similarly, let's say I'm learning to play a bassline or a melody. Should I be thinking step-wise/linearly from one note to the next: i.e. up a half step, up a 3rd, down a 5th... Or should I always be thinking of each note in relationship to a key-signature/tonic (IV, VII, ii).

 

Both will help, though you don't have to try juggling both ideas in your head at the same time.

 

The intervallic approach is helpful for creating lines (bass or melody), in that you learn to chain intervals together to create a line.

 

The other approach is helpful for getting a feel of where the chord tones are. An experienced bass player doesn't just play the root of each chord - he/she can hit the other chord tones, as well as passing tones.

 

I think you will find after you work with both approaches for a while, you'll be able to find intervals and chord tones alike by feel rather than relying on note names.

 

Great post as usual by marino.

[I-missRichardTee]

No disrespect, with respect to GovernorSilver's ( and anyone elses ) comments.

But playing bass ought to be predominantly root based ( bassed ! )

all other notes serve the bass. I would travel cautiously with liberal use of too many tones away from the root.

I have had arguments about this, elsewhere.. But stick with basic bass lines for a long time.

[GovernorSilver]

No disrespect, with respect to GovernorSilver's ( and anyone elses ) comments.

But playing bass ought to be predominantly root based ( bassed ! )

all other notes serve the bass. I would travel cautiously with liberal use of too many tones away from the root.

 

Who said to not play the root, or to stray from the root of each chord? Wasn't me.

[I-missRichardTee]

No disrespect, with respect to GovernorSilver's ( and anyone elses ) comments.

But playing bass ought to be predominantly root based ( bassed ! )

all other notes serve the bass. I would travel cautiously with liberal use of too many tones away from the root.

 

Who said to not play the root, or to stray from the root of each chord? Wasn't me.

 

If I misinterpreted your words Governor, as it appears I did, I am sorry. I think the knowledge given to OP, ought to be done in an incremental way.. basics first. And root.. fifth, simpler type bass lines, are the basics, foundational in two senses.

I just played a 4 hour jazz bass gig.. I must say, from not doing it everyday of the week, it is a challenge to make interesting lines, while emphasizing the Root of chord.

I have said this before.. when a pianist is playing his fat fancy chords, which note, for bass player, 99% of the time, sounds the best... the Root?, or what other note? Listen to Herbie and Ron Carter and you will have the answer, ditto for Scotty and Bill Evans, or Oscar and Ray. Of course that is a vertical ( chordal ) aspect of harmony, and it completely ignores the horizontal ( linear, or melodic, or succession of tones ) aspect. Both apply, the melodic line of the bass, and the vertical, chordal aspect.. but for a beginner, overwhelmingly he must go for the vertical, for at least a few YEARS. aka he must do what Big John Patton did play those Roots.

All of this is answered by listening to the older masters of bass lines.

The key is resonance. what note in a chord, creates the most resonant sound for 11th and 13th type chords?

[GovernorSilver]

 

If I misinterpreted your words Governor, as it appears I did, I am sorry. I think the knowledge given to OP, ought to be done in an incremental way.. basics first. And root.. fifth, simpler type bass lines, are the basics, foundational in two senses.

I just played a 4 hour jazz bass gig.. I must say, from not doing it everyday of the week, it is a challenge to make interesting lines, while emphasizing the Root of chord.

 

We're good.

 

Ed Friedland teaches similarly to how you want to teach bass, in his "Building Walking Bass Lines" book - start with simple blues progression, playing roots, 4ths and 5ths to make a skeleton of a walking bass line. When you can play at the tempo of the CD tracks for those basic lessons, he lets you start adding to that skeleton in subsequent ones.

 

I've also played bass in a band, though not in a jazz context, and have taken a couple of workshops and lessons. I don't call myself a bassist, but I still work on bass lines, in addition to melody and chords, when I work on a jazz tune. I find it beneficial. Seems like Shaka40 does too - must be why he brought it up in one of his questions. I know for me, it got me more comfortable with going through chord changes, from thinking of just the root from chord to chord, to thinking of ways to connect the chords that sound good, but still let the listener know what chord it is (root).