Rhodes shootout

[Dana.]

Just happened upon this. Really well done. There are Soundcloud links for more critical listening.

 

 

[video:youtube]

[JMcS]

I stumbled on this yesterday:

 

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/4127995062.html

 

Not quite on topic but just in case anyone is interested. I have nothing to do with the sale.

[Dana.]

I stumbled on this yesterday:

 

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/4127995062.html

 

Not quite on topic but just in case anyone is interested. I have nothing to do with the sale.

Man, that's a beaut. I bought a Mark II Stage 73 last year that's just as mint.

[orangefunk]

Nice shootout.

 

The Scarbee sounded pretty good. The Neosoul had a rougher tone but seemed to bottom out to my ears. RSP sounded nice at the bottom but thin in the chord area. Nord Stage showed its weakness with velocity switches...

 

Rhodes Mk2 was a plastic key model I think and the tine/pickup setup was not as "close" as mine but I think sounded okay here.

 

Still I think even on that little video you could hear the difference a real Rhodes makes... I think you can hear it on chords and the bass range mainly... I know when I compare a chord on my Mk2 and Scarbee the difference is night and day. There is some extra kind of resonance/harmonic content which you don't get from the sample-based approaches.

 

For most people though (i.e. old guys with bad backs in regular gigging band up and down the land)I don't think what I say above makes a difference... but for us hard core Rhodes fans there still is no substitute and I say that as a guy with a bad back who is approaching "oldness"

 

 

 

 

[Dana.]

Nice shootout.

 

The Scarbee sounded pretty good. The Neosoul had a rougher tone but seemed to bottom out to my ears. RSP sounded nice at the bottom but thin in the chord area. Nord Stage showed its weakness with velocity switches...

 

Rhodes Mk2 was a plastic key model I think and the tine/pickup setup was not as "close" as mine but I think sounded okay here.

 

Still I think even on that little video you could hear the difference a real Rhodes makes... I think you can hear it on chords and the bass range mainly... I know when I compare a chord on my Mk2 and Scarbee the difference is night and day. There is some extra kind of resonance/harmonic content which you don't get from the sample-based approaches.

 

For most people though (i.e. old guys with bad backs in regular gigging band up and down the land)I don't think what I say above makes a difference... but for us hard core Rhodes fans there still is no substitute and I say that as a guy with a bad back who is approaching "oldness"

 

 

 

+1, except my back is still good.

[Dana.]

I can't quite tell what the deal is with the controller, but from what I can parse from the German, it's a DIY using a Yamaha P80 action. Perhaps one of our members who speaks German can confirm.

[Doerfler]

Nice shootout.

Still I think even on that little video you could hear the difference a real Rhodes makes... I think you can hear it on chords and the bass range mainly... There is some extra kind of resonance/harmonic content which you don't get from the sample-based approaches.

For most people though (i.e. old guys with bad backs in regular gigging band up and down the land)I don't think what I say above makes a difference... but for us hard core Rhodes fans there still is no substitute and I say that as a guy with a bad back who is approaching "oldness"

I think they all sounded good enough for a gig. AAS Lounge Lizard is my go to Rhodes when I can't use my "Mark Zwei". I use a Yamaha S90 as a controller, very similar if not the same as the controller keyboard action used in the video (assuming it is a S80 action). The big difference is the action of a real Rhodes. The way it plays is so different from a controller keyboard that it sounds different because of the action. I spent quite a lot of money 2 years ago to have my Rhodes "pimped" at Vintage Vibe. They don't come this way out of the box. Still much less expensive than a new VV Electric Piano. Gonna go play it now.

[NeedMoreBass]

I have Scarbee and 2 versions of Lounge Lizard(Session and v4) and also PianoTeq 4.5. It's been a few years since I've played a Rhodes, but to me PianoTeq does a better job than the Scarbee or Lounge Lizard. Not only does it sound more like what I like a Rhodes to sound like, but it also feels like I'm playing a Rhodes. I'm using a Casio PX-5S as the controller.

[fjzingo]

Nice comparison,

 

Interesting that scarbees rhodes still is one of the best samples around. I use it for banddemos. Quick and easy.

 

It would be great if Clavia could update the rhodes samples, wouldn't mind a more dynamic mk 1 low deep. Better one great than five ok, but thats me.

 

Nothing like the real deal as Neil says, there is something missing to all samplelibraries. Used my mk 1 on a gig recently, The feeling you get from playing that monster is awesome.

 

Fred

 

[Al Coda]

I can't quite tell what the deal is with the controller, but from what I can parse from the German, it's a DIY using a Yamaha P80 action. Perhaps one of our members who speaks German can confirm.

 

Yes, the keyboard action is from Yammi P80 but the MIDI electronics he used is "midiBox" based.

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/

http://www.midibox.org/

 

The case is made from wood core plywood (prototype made from particle board), rounded edges and red and black tolex.

All about the intention to have a flat top controller to put a 2nd keyboard on top.

http://www.christianradtke.com/?p=372

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

Nice comparison,

 

Interesting that scarbees rhodes still is one of the best samples around.

 

Well, I like the NI Scarbee in Komplete 7 very much as well as Burningbush´s Mark V for Kontakt.

 

I didn´t expect the RSP 73 sounding different from the NI version because both are originally Scarbee.

In fact, I thought the RSP 73 IS the NI version, but I might be wrong.

 

A.C.

[Dana.]

I can't quite tell what the deal is with the controller, but from what I can parse from the German, it's a DIY using a Yamaha P80 action. Perhaps one of our members who speaks German can confirm.

 

Yes, the keyboard action is from Yammi P80 but the MIDI electronics he used is "midiBox" based.

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/

http://www.midibox.org/

 

The case is made from wood core plywood (prototype made from particle board), rounded edges and red and black tolex.

All about the intention to have a flat top controller to put a 2nd keyboard on top.

http://www.christianradtke.com/?p=372

 

A.C.

[Dana.]

Burningbush´s Mark V

+1

[Theo Verelst]

I don't know why it is called a "shootout", and also I don't like the very singular and unexciting play style. There's a sort of "gate" effect on the audio that doesn't bother me, but it may well have an effect on the sound. Certainly the voice sounds processed more than just eq and rev, but anyhow, it's an interesting idea.

 

Clearly, once more I like the "real" Rhodes fine, nice sound, and the software IMO hardly comes near, except for a number of obvious sound properties, which of course is fine, you can try the s.w. out, if you don't like it: throw it away.

 

I think the search for inter-connection of the tones and harmonic dynamics shouldn't be tried all too much by the s.w. guys unless they understand what they're doing, because chances are their sounds would turn from a _under control_ slightly lame and without presence sound (with rather typical sampling and sampling theory related errors) into something you can't put loud without danger for bad ringing tones.

 

Now how about the big three ?

 

T

[Doerfler]

I have Scarbee and 2 versions of Lounge Lizard(Session and v4) and also PianoTeq 4.5. It's been a few years since I've played a Rhodes, but to me PianoTeq does a better job than the Scarbee or Lounge Lizard. Not only does it sound more like what I like a Rhodes to sound like, but it also feels like I'm playing a Rhodes. I'm using a Casio PX-5S as the controller.

 

Different strokes. I own Pianoteq. Purchased the Rock Collection last year. The Clavinet is good. Rhodes and Wurlitzer, not so much, IMHO. The Yamaha C5 is useless also IMHO. Any controller being used by anyone today does not feel like a Rhodes, most Rhodes actions suck, which is part of it's charm. Still haven't tried out a PX-5S. Looking forward to that eventually. I have a Smithsonian worthy Rhodes Mark II 88 available for you to play anytime for comparison. Send me a PM.

[NeedMoreBass]

I have Scarbee and 2 versions of Lounge Lizard(Session and v4) and also PianoTeq 4.5. It's been a few years since I've played a Rhodes, but to me PianoTeq does a better job than the Scarbee or Lounge Lizard. Not only does it sound more like what I like a Rhodes to sound like, but it also feels like I'm playing a Rhodes. I'm using a Casio PX-5S as the controller.

 

Different strokes. I own Pianoteq. Purchased the Rock Collection last year. The Clavinet is good. Rhodes and Wurlitzer, not so much, IMHO. The Yamaha C5 is useless also IMHO. Any controller being used by anyone today does not feel like a Rhodes, most Rhodes actions suck, which is part of it's charm. Still haven't tried out a PX-5S. Looking forward to that eventually. I have a Smithsonian worthy Rhodes Mark II 88 available for you to play anytime for comparison. Send me a PM.

 

I agree about the Wurly, C5, and Clavinet. The factory presets on the Rhodes are ok, but they can be tweeked to be much much better and is my favorite amongst what I have. As far as the action, I remember enough about the Rhodes where I don't need to play yours to compare, but thanks for the offer. My comment about feeling like a Rhodes really had more to do feeling more connected with the instrument which is a trait PianoTeq brings to the table that other programs do not. Also I've tried several different keyboards as controllers and the PX-5S works great with everything I've used it with.

[Resolution 88]

I agree with Neil - there's nothing like the real thing. I think it's a dangerous game comparing what was fairly objectively the worst era of Rhodes pianos to the best emulations these days but even then the Rhodes came out well sound-wise. I used a mkII plastic key Rhodes for gigging for a little while but I disliked it enough just to give it away to a drummer mate free (although I benefit by being able to cycle to rehearsals at his house now). One of the big differences between the Rhodes / emulations for me is the feeling of playing them, in terms of the action and timbre. I will happily cart Rhodes to gigs still (well, I suppose a few people here remember my thread from a month back). I'm actually looking to step things up and put my money where my mouth is. I think the action and the feeling of being sat behind the piano is so important that I'm going to sell my stage 73 (1973) and buy a second suitcase Rhodes (1975) with what I believe is the best action revision, with flat key-tops. So, I'm glad this guy put effort into his comparison video - but I will continue putting my efforts into recording, gigging and playing with the real thing.

[Michael W]

If you turn on the captions, there's an English translation of everything the fellow is saying in German.

[1203]

Burningbush´s Mark V

+1

 

+1

[NeedMoreBass]

I downloaded the Burningbush Bush Mark V as few days ago and while it is good, I still think the Pianoteq is the better of these. Here's a post from a couple years ago about George Duke using PianoTeq and how his tech thought it sounded like a real Rhodes 88:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2191410/talked_with_George_Duke_s_tech

 

The factory presets are not convincing, but it can be easily tweeked to sound very convincing if also used in conjunction with a better EQ other than the one built into PianoTeq.

[Dana.]

I downloaded the Burningbush Bush Mark V as few days ago and while it is good, I still think the Pianoteq is the better of these. The factory presets are not convincing, but it can be easily tweeked to sound very convincing if also used in conjunction with a better EQ other than the one built into PianoTeq.

When I load up Busch's Mark V, it sounds exactly like a Rhodes. When I load up Pianoteq, it doesn't really sound like a Rhodes. Why waste time trying to dial something in? :idk

[16251]

I liked the richness of the real Rhodes but you tell player had similar issues to what I remember with Rhodes I've owned in my lifetime. Sloppy action. You can tell cause the player was playing just as nice, but much simpler. I'm sure there are people who have great Rhodes but I was never that lucky. I even had Chuck Monte work on it, but they never played that great.

[MikeT156]

Nice shootout.

 

The Scarbee sounded pretty good. The Neosoul had a rougher tone but seemed to bottom out to my ears. RSP sounded nice at the bottom but thin in the chord area. Nord Stage showed its weakness with velocity switches...

 

Rhodes Mk2 was a plastic key model I think and the tine/pickup setup was not as "close" as mine but I think sounded okay here.

 

Still I think even on that little video you could hear the difference a real Rhodes makes... I think you can hear it on chords and the bass range mainly... I know when I compare a chord on my Mk2 and Scarbee the difference is night and day. There is some extra kind of resonance/harmonic content which you don't get from the sample-based approaches.

 

For most people though (i.e. old guys with bad backs in regular gigging band up and down the land)I don't think what I say above makes a difference... but for us hard core Rhodes fans there still is no substitute and I say that as a guy with a bad back who is approaching "oldness"

 

 

 

Hey Neil, I agree with your take on the comparison. Sampled sounds have their Pros, like a consistent sound, and their Cons, being the number of velocities the samples have, and the fact that samples are one note, sampled at one point in time.

 

The advantage of playing the real thing is that we don't lose those Harmonics that are usually lost on sampled instruments. The other advantage of playing the real thing is that you can really dig in and make the instrument an extension of you. Although I love my Mark 1 Suitcase Rhodes, the days of moving a real Rhodes around are ancient history. In the case of my Beloved Mark 1, not only I wouldn't want to move it, I would never risk damaging it! I was fortunate to buy a Mark 1 Suitcase Rhodes brand new that was manufactured about a year or so before the Mark 2 plastic key model came out. My Rhodes was never played by anyone but me, and was never pounded or abused. The action is awesome and it still sounds great. Now if I could only improve my playing..........

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.

[David Emm]

Would I be seen as a heathen if I said I was perfectly happy with the EVP88 in Logic? I've played a couple of different Rhodes and Wurlies, so I got a taste for some of the possible variations and techniques. I feel as if I can get any tone that strikes me. The tremolo is especially creamy. Making it bark is also no problem. I might go for a more detailed plug if it was a big solo instrument for me, but this one holds its own just fine.

[NeedMoreBass]

I downloaded the Burningbush Bush Mark V as few days ago and while it is good, I still think the Pianoteq is the better of these. The factory presets are not convincing, but it can be easily tweeked to sound very convincing if also used in conjunction with a better EQ other than the one built into PianoTeq.

When I load up Busch's Mark V, it sounds exactly like a Rhodes. When I load up Pianoteq, it doesn't really sound like a Rhodes. Why waste time trying to dial something in? :idk

 

I can tell you why. Because I can get PianoTeq to sound closer to this than Busch's Mark V.

 

 

[video:youtube]

[Kawai James]

Great comparison - thanks for posting!

 

James

x

[Dana.]

I can tell you why. Because I can get PianoTeq to sound closer to this than Busch's Mark V.

 

 

[video:youtube]

Fair enough. If you want a Mark I sound, no sense in using a Mark V sample.

[Al Coda]

If you want a Mark I sound, no sense in using a Mark V sample.

 

 

lots of truth in these words !

 

 

A.C.

[MikeT156]

Nice Job! I still love the sound of my Mark 1 Rhodes. I got spoiled by having a Suitcase Rhodes and the Stereo Tremolo too! I was fortunate to get one before Rhodes started making the plastic model Mark II. Yuck!

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.