Limited ed RED Ventilator

[Craig MacDonald]

I still love my old vent too..! If I just wanted that nice warm 122 sound I would be very happy with it. I need more than that with my classic rock band, and the Burn seems to be able to deliver more of the varied sounds that I need.

[Jim Alfredson]

Oh, it's on today!

 

http://jimalfredson.com/pub/vent.jpg

 

[Craig MacDonald]

I rest my case once again.. the keyboard version is an afterthought.. just a sticker on the outside of the box.. ;-)

[Skinny]

I think it's funny how the original is a "Ventilator", but over time, has colloquially become know as "Vent", now the company itself uses the term "Vent" for their new products.

[Tonysounds]

I rest my case once again.. the keyboard version is an afterthought.. just a sticker on the outside of the box.. ;-)

 

Yeah, proof positive that it MUST SUCK.

 

So, I have to ask this question, because....well....it just seems a STUPID argument against the Mini Vent, but I'll ask it anyway: So, if the Mini Vent actually sounds great (as I expect it will based on The Ventilator), even though it is not tweakable, but if it sounds great, does the fact that for THIS MODEL keyboards weren't the intention, but as an "afterthought" they ran a clonewheel through it and realized "hey, no frills, just plug n play n step on it", does the fact that it was a happy accident/"afterthought" diminish its usefulness?

 

I know the answer, I just want to hear your's. It seems to me that you have a strange anti-Vent campaign going here, yet using the same logic that you have applied to the MiniVent, you should hate the Vr09, which I think IS a P.O.S. with organ as an afterthought.

 

JUST CURIOUS.

[Craig MacDonald]

I rest my case once again.. the keyboard version is an afterthought.. just a sticker on the outside of the box.. ;-)

 

Yeah, proof positive that it MUST SUCK.

 

So, I have to ask this question, because....well....it just seems a STUPID argument against the Mini Vent, but I'll ask it anyway: So, if the Mini Vent actually sounds great (as I expect it will based on The Ventilator), even though it is not tweakable, but if it sounds great, does the fact that for THIS MODEL keyboards weren't the intention, but as an "afterthought" they ran a clonewheel through it and realized "hey, no frills, just plug n play n step on it", does the fact that it was a happy accident/"afterthought" diminish its usefulness?

 

I know the answer, I just want to hear your's. It seems to me that you have a strange anti-Vent campaign going here, yet using the same logic that you have applied to the MiniVent, you should hate the Vr09, which I think IS a P.O.S. with organ as an afterthought.

 

JUST CURIOUS.

 

Lets address your last point first.. the Drawbar organ in the VR-09 is NOT an afterthought, drawbar organ has been a part of the V-combo family for years now!! If you don't like it don't buy it! What you can't seem to see here, because your nose is stuck too far up in the air, is that the VR-09 is tremendous VALUE.. and if you look at everything I have said about the VR-09 it's all about the VALUE! The VR-09 set a new price point for a drawbar organ, and it's been quite successful!

 

Which brings us to the Ventilator.. The original, was great value, despite it's high price.. it was an outstanding 122 simulation and there was nothing that could really compete with it.. It was new, it was innovative, and it was clearly the best (and I was one of the first to own one, and a huge advocate of it!!). Now we get to the mini-vent, and I'm sure it sounds just as good as the original but all indications are that it sounds exactly the same, and does less (less feature/functionality). So the question now is what is the right price point? This product is not boldly going where no man has gone before.. it's just a smaller package that doesn't do as much and by the way, things are different now.. they actually have some REAL competition.. and the competition is coming from clones like the Mojo who's internal sims are dramatically improved, and other new products like the Burn (which does so much more than the original vent for less) and perhaps we'll even see the Hammond Suzuki "real leslie" pedal (if it ever comes out, and I think we all know that it's probably going to suck)..

 

I have nothing against the Mini-vent if it's priced right.. and I think $150 is about the right price, but something tells me that it's going to sell for a lot more than that. I also think that keyboard players have different requirements, and this mini-vent is designed for guitar not keyboards.. This is where the afterthought issue comes in.. They merely added a different input, and put a sticker on the box... that's it. This kind of approach is NOT what made the original ventilator successful.

 

I hope this explains things.

[AnotherScott]

They merely added a different input, and put a sticker on the box... that's it.

I could be wrong, but my impression is that the guitar version is a less adjustable version of the original Vent in "GIT" mode (rotary effect without 122 amp/speaker emulation), whereas the organ version is a less adjustable version of the original Vent in "KEY" mode (full Leslie 122 emulation).

 

As for where it should be priced, I would say $100 less than the Burn. Great sound, simple plug-and-play. Tweakers (or people looking for something other/more than the Leslie 122 effect) can pay the extra for the Burn. Though there's also still the matter of whether the Burn can quite get the Vent sound, if that happens to be exactly what you are looking for. People who want the exact Vent sound and tweakability will have to scavenge for a full Vent or wait for a Vent II.

 

As they say, it's all good...

[Baldwin Funster]

I see another rivalry here .

First it was

Ginger/Mary Ann, then Nord/Hammond Suzuki Then Everybody/Ham Suz, now we got Neo/GSI. Thank God, this place was starting to get boring.

 

[Six-string-man]

 

 

I have nothing against the Mini-vent if it's priced right.. and I think $150 is about the right price, but something tells me that it's going to sell for a lot more than that.

 

 

The mini vent is £247 in the UK. I believe this is around $370.

 

SSM

[Six-string-man]

 

I could be wrong, but my impression is that the guitar version is a less adjustable version of the original Vent in "GIT" mode (rotary effect without 122 amp/speaker emulation), whereas the organ version is a less adjustable version of the original Vent in "KEY" mode (full Leslie 122 emulation).

 

 

WOW! This makes SO MUCH SENSE! I'm surprised nobody thought of that before. Brilliant AS.

 

SSM

[Craig MacDonald]

They merely added a different input, and put a sticker on the box... that's it.

I could be wrong, but my impression is that the guitar version is a less adjustable version of the original Vent in "GIT" mode (rotary effect without 122 amp/speaker emulation), whereas the organ version is a less adjustable version of the original Vent in "KEY" mode (full Leslie 122 emulation).

 

 

Exactly, doesn't this make you wonder why they didn't just use the same $.50 guitar/keyboard pushbutton in the mini-vent, rather than making two completely different versions of the same product? They've had to build two different products with two different input circuits (that are otherwise virtually identical) and then they have to put a sticker on the outside of the box to identify which is which! Does this sound like a well thought out product...? I'm not saying that it doesn't sound good, and it may be perfect for a few keyboard players that don't already have a ventilator, but this not the approach that made the original Ventilator so successful! It was a well thought out and almost perfect product for the market, at the time.

[Craig MacDonald]

 

I have nothing against the Mini-vent if it's priced right.. and I think $150 is about the right price, but something tells me that it's going to sell for a lot more than that.

 

 

The mini vent is £247 in the UK. I believe this is around $370.

 

SSM

 

This is more than I paid for my Burn.. WOW..

[Six-string-man]

 

I have nothing against the Mini-vent if it's priced right.. and I think $150 is about the right price, but something tells me that it's going to sell for a lot more than that.

 

 

The mini vent is £247 in the UK. I believe this is around $370.

 

SSM

 

This is more than I paid for my Burn.. WOW..

 

The limited edition vent is £401 ($600) Double Wow?

 

 

SSM

[Craig MacDonald]

 

The limited edition vent is £401 ($600) Double Wow?

 

 

SSM

 

Why anyone would pay that amount of money for a red ventilator is beyond me.. but different people have different priorities. I am a huge fan of the ventilator.. I am NOT a huge fan of companies that try to take advantage of their name. The Ventilator was a huge success.. so now they're coming out with numerous overpriced versions of it.. That's just BS from my perspective.. and I hope that they get back to their winning product strategies with the Ventilator II.

 

I'm afraid that the way they're going, they're going to start marketing their products as "the REAL ventilator"!!!

[Six-string-man]

They merely added a different input, and put a sticker on the box... that's it.

I could be wrong, but my impression is that the guitar version is a less adjustable version of the original Vent in "GIT" mode (rotary effect without 122 amp/speaker emulation), whereas the organ version is a less adjustable version of the original Vent in "KEY" mode (full Leslie 122 emulation).

 

 

Exactly, doesn't this make you wonder why they didn't just use the same $.50 guitar/keyboard pushbutton in the mini-vent, rather than making two completely different versions of the same product? They've had to build two different products with two different input circuits (that are otherwise virtually identical) and then they have to put a sticker on the outside of the box to identify which is which! Does this sound like a well thought out product...? I'm not saying that it doesn't sound good, and it may be perfect for a few keyboard players that don't already have a ventilator, but this not the approach that made the original Ventilator so successful! It was a well thought out and almost perfect product for the market, at the time.

 

Speaking as a guitarist, we like small stompboxes that fit on our pedalboards. I think that Neo released the mini vent for guitarists.

 

There were then well documented problems with the mini vent, so Neo's technicians had to work on the returns from disgruntled customers. This means they couldn't work on the Vent 2. (By this time, the original vent had been discontinued).

 

The Vent 2 is now behind schedule, so I think that NEO resurrected the original vent, sprayed the cover red, and sold it as a "limited edition". At the same time, they put out a keyboard version of the mini vent to garner extra profits, and divert attention from the fact that the Vent 2 is going to be late to market. Plus, they are probably worried about the competition from GSI.

 

SSM, (conspiracy theorist extraordinaire)

[Baldwin Funster]

Why is price such a big issue? What is an extra $100 if a particular piece of gear makes you happy and makes your life better? Who are you punishing by holding back from buying? Clearly NEO sold out of the Vent V1 and people are still trying to get them. You also have to factor currency exchange rates which put the dollar at a disadvantage to the german euro. That's not guidos fault, why should he take a paycut because of a currency imbalance set daily by whoever sets that rate? Also NEO is small and doesn't have the manufacturing power to price things like roland could. When the Vent first came out I was impressed that a tiny company from outside the US could impact the Organ playing world with an almost universally loved product. It doesn't bother me to spend a little more to support that. Man , Keyboard players sure come off as cheap.

[Craig MacDonald]

Speaking as a guitarist, we like small stompboxes that fit on our pedalboards. I think that Neo released the mini vent for guitarists.

 

There were then well documented problems with the mini vent, so Neo's technicians had to work on the returns from disgruntled customers. This means they couldn't work on the Vent 2. (By this time, the original vent had been discontinued).

 

The Vent 2 is now behind schedule, so I think that NEO resurrected the original vent, sprayed the cover red, and sold it as a "limited edition". At the same time, they put out a keyboard version of the mini vent to garner extra profits, and divert attention from the fact that the Vent 2 is going to be late to market. Plus, they are probably worried about the competition from GSI.

 

SSM, (conspiracy theorist extraordinaire)

 

Well that would explain this poorly thought out mini-vent for Keyboards.. Clearly it's a product that they've "tossed" out there to bridge the gab between the original ventilator, which is out of stock/production, and the Ventilator II, which isn't being delivered on time. Let's not forget that it also gives them time to gauge the competition from HS and GSI..

 

In reality the mini-vent for keyboards may make perfect business sense given the problems that Neo Instruments is having. I just hope that keyboard players find the product that is right for them, rather than the product that is right for Neo Instruments bottom line.

 

BTW, if you're willing to spend $600 on a red ventilator, you'll probably want to pick up a $370 mini-vent too, but then again you might want to wait for mini-vent to come out in red too!!

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Why is price such a big issue? What is an extra $100 if a particular piece of gear makes you happy and makes your life better? Who are you punishing by holding back from buying? Clearly NEO sold out of the Vent V1 and people are still trying to get them. You also have to factor currency exchange rates which put the dollar at a disadvantage to the german euro. That's not guidos fault, why should he take a paycut because of a currency imbalance set daily by whoever sets that rate? Also NEO is small and doesn't have the manufacturing power to price things like roland could. When the Vent first came out I was impressed that a tiny company from outside the US could impact the Organ playing world with an almost universally loved product. It doesn't bother me to spend a little more to support that. Man , Keyboard players sure come off as cheap.

 

KAS this has nothing to do with being cheap and everything to do with value and pricing something appropriately given the market place..! While new lower priced products are entering the marketplace, Neo is recycling it's product in different sizes and different colours.. and charging a premium price for it..

 

That's BS..

[Joe Muscara]

IMNSHO, Craig, you are spending WAY too much time thinking about what Neo is up to and their business practices. You have no idea (and neither do I) unless you hear it from Guido Kirsch himself or a rep from Neo Instruments.

[Six-string-man]

I'm really interested to see what's in the Vent 2 when it finally ships. Neo might have to go back to the drawing board since the Burn arrived.

 

No-one is going to buy the Vent 2, unless they drastically cut prices, or it is demonstrably better than the Burn.

 

I expect very little from the Hammond Suzuki pedal - even though it's a Hammond, and everything else is just a clone.

 

SSM

[AnotherScott]

doesn't this make you wonder why they didn't just use the same $.50 guitar/keyboard pushbutton in the mini-vent, rather than making two completely different versions of the same product?

It sounds like you're assuming that both version of the Mini-Vent are internally identical, and all they needed to do was add a switch to reduce two production models into a single model. But maybe the associated electronics that would allow that switch to actually perform this function would cost more than $.50. Maybe the guitar version doesn't include the electronics for the 122 speaker simulation. Maybe there are more internal differences than you are assuming there are. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong here, just that it sounds like you're kinda pulling things out of the air which may or may not be correct.

 

 

The mini vent is £247 in the UK. I believe this is around $370.

 

This is more than I paid for my Burn.. WOW..

You have to compare prices in the same countries and currencies at the same time, and take into account whether each price includes VAT, etc.

 

The current price of the Burn is 379 Euros. The current price of the Mini Vent is $295 Euros. So it's over a $100 difference. We don't know, though, whether the Mini Vent for organ will cost the same as the plain version. If it does need some additional electronics beyond what is in the "guitar" version, they could conceivably end up charging more for that unit as well.

[Tonysounds]

I rest my case once again.. the keyboard version is an afterthought.. just a sticker on the outside of the box.. ;-)

does the fact that it was a happy accident/"afterthought" diminish its usefulness?

 

Lets address your last point first.. the Drawbar organ in the VR-09 is NOT an afterthought, drawbar organ has been a part of the V-combo family for years now!! If you don't like it don't buy it! What you can't seem to see here, because your nose is stuck too far up in the air, is that the VR-09 is tremendous VALUE.. and if you look at everything I have said about the VR-09 it's all about the VALUE! The VR-09 set a new price point for a drawbar organ, and it's been quite successful!

 

Which brings us to the Ventilator.. The original, was great value, despite it's high price.. it was an outstanding 122 simulation and there was nothing that could really compete with it.. It was new, it was innovative, and it was clearly the best (and I was one of the first to own one, and a huge advocate of it!!). Now we get to the mini-vent, and I'm sure it sounds just as good as the original but all indications are that it sounds exactly the same, and does less (less feature/functionality). So the question now is what is the right price point? This product is not boldly going where no man has gone before.. it's just a smaller package that doesn't do as much and by the way, things are different now.. they actually have some REAL competition.. and the competition is coming from clones like the Mojo who's internal sims are dramatically improved, and other new products like the Burn (which does so much more than the original vent for less) and perhaps we'll even see the Hammond Suzuki "real leslie" pedal (if it ever comes out, and I think we all know that it's probably going to suck)..

 

I have nothing against the Mini-vent if it's priced right.. and I think $150 is about the right price, but something tells me that it's going to sell for a lot more than that. I also think that keyboard players have different requirements, and this mini-vent is designed for guitar not keyboards.. This is where the afterthought issue comes in.. They merely added a different input, and put a sticker on the box... that's it. This kind of approach is NOT what made the original ventilator successful.

 

I hope this explains things.

 

Actually, no, it explained nothing as it regarded my question. Dont worry about my nose being in the air (pot/kettle/black), pull your head out of .the clouds, and re-read my question.

 

On third thought, dont bother. I cant bear to read another retread of this argument. I guess well just ACTUALLY HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE if it sounds as good and is a value or not before passing judgment.

 

Novel idea, huh?

 

Oh, and speaking of not going boldly, thats the VR09 to the T. I had the first VCombo. I liked it. But its organs, and its pianos, and its synths, were watered down versions of things in their other products, but it had a nice feeling keyboard (unlike the VR09). Dont like it, dont buy it is sage advice. I also wouldnt dissuade anyone else looking for value from finding it where they can. If its the VR09, awesome. Just try to use the same thinking, ok?

 

I just find the hypocrisy in your review fascinating, but not as fascinating as your inability to recognize it. And MY nose is in the air?

 

[Six-string-man]

doesn't this make you wonder why they didn't just use the same $.50 guitar/keyboard pushbutton in the mini-vent, rather than making two completely different versions of the same product?

It sounds like you're assuming that both version of the Mini-Vent are internally identical, and all they needed to do was add a switch to reduce two production models into a single model. But maybe the associated electronics that would allow that switch to actually perform this function would cost more than $.50. Maybe the guitar version doesn't include the electronics for the 122 speaker simulation. Maybe there are more internal differences than you are assuming there are. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong here, just that it sounds like you're kinda pulling things out of the air which may or may not be correct.

 

 

The mini vent is £247 in the UK. I believe this is around $370.

 

This is more than I paid for my Burn.. WOW..

You have to compare prices in the same countries and currencies at the same time, and take into account whether each price includes VAT, etc.

 

The current price of the Burn is 379 Euros. The current price of the Mini Vent is $295 Euros. So it's over a $100 difference. We don't know, though, whether the Mini Vent for organ will cost the same as the plain version. If it does need some additional electronics beyond what is in the "guitar" version, they could conceivably end up charging more for that unit as well.

 

 

 

 

The Burn price includes VAT & delivery. The Vent price includes VAT, but delivery is extra (assuming that the Vent comes from Thomann.

 

SSM

[Delaware Dave]

Can you provide context on "the current new kid on the block doesn't sound better than the old kid on the block"?

My perspective comes from listening to the many Burn videos. The Burn sounds good and I would use it but, to my ears, the Vent sounds better; it simulates the overtones of the leslie cabinet better and I like the overdrive better

OB1, I don't think that DD actually has the "new kid on the block" (the Burn).. so I'm not sure what he's based his comments on..

Craig, you purchased a Burn on what basis? Just the features? You ignored the audio/videos that were on the website originally? Of course you didn't, you listened and made your decision to purchase it. I listened and based on what I heard I didn't think it made sense to roll the dice based on what I heard. My basis is from listening to videos of KRK (Marco) as well as your soundcloud clips as well as other clips that are posted. Again, it's good but i'ts not a vent killer from a 122 sound perspective. Sorry.

I have both.. Vent and Burn, and I can tell you that the Burn is just as capable of creating as beautiful a 122 leslie as the Ventilator is.

Well, I'm still waiting to hear that, but haven't yet. It does a good job simulating the 147 amp but not as good as the Vent simulating the 122 amp and overdrive. And even if it were "just as good", that would not be a driver for me to replace the Vent with the Burn, it would have to sound better. I'm use to a 122 sound and the Vent is the best at providing that sound to my ears.

it's in a different league capabilities wise.

I made no comment to the "other" capabilities that the Burn offers. I want to see what the Vent II offers from a capability point of view and if it upgrades the sound of the original Vent. I can wait; I'm in no hurry to upgrade the Vent. If the Vent II offers similar capabilities as the Burn and has up'd the ante with the sound that would be more appealing to me than to 'upgrade' to the Burn but in fact not upgrade the 122 sound. And if the Vent II costs $50-100 more than the Burn but the sound engine and features are upgraded, then in my mind I would justify the additional cost. And if the Vent II's sound engine isn't upgraded then I'll just keep what I have and walk away still happy.

 

[Tonysounds]

Craig, I LOVE all the colorful adjectives youre throwing out there, afterthought, not a well-thought out product, tossed off, Cheap. Im sure your years of experience inventing new products, manufacturing them, marketing them, ascertaining marketplace needs and expectations, delivering on those needs and expectations, all the while inventing more new products, gives you an insight and expertise into this that the rest of us goobers here on the forum can only marvel at.

 

Im just glad that you have the extra time to Vent your non-experiential vitriol here. You are a boon to the forum, and to faux leslie using keyboardists everywhere. The rest of uss actually have to TRY stuff to form an opinion.

 

And way to go from refraining from yet another patented Craig MacDonald Hammond snipe. And I wonder why I spend less time here than before.

 

[AnotherScott]

The Burn price includes VAT & delivery. The Vent price includes VAT, but delivery is extra (assuming that the Vent comes from Thomann.

Ah yes, it depends where you are. In Germany, Thomann's shipping would be free. Elsewhere there would be a charge. But at least that is closer to an apples-to-apples comparison of what the two cost, at the same time, in the same place, with the same currency. As opposed to comparing a no-VAT no longer available introductory price in one country and currency to a with-VAT current price in another country and currency.

[Bif_]

IMNSHO, Craig, you are spending WAY too much time thinking about what Neo is up to and their business practices. You have no idea (and neither do I) unless you hear it from Guido Kirsch himself or a rep from Neo Instruments.

+1

 

I'm really interested to see what's in the Vent 2 when it finally arrives.

 

No-one is going to buy the Vent 2, unless they drastically cut prices, or it is demonstrably better than the Burn.

SSM

 

The marketplace will speak with cold, hard cash and determine who made the best business decisions.

 

Frankly I don't know how all this turned into a 'Vent versus Burn' smackdown.

 

I have a Vent and love it. If I didn't have it I would have easily considered the Burn and likely bought one for the introductory price. I think the Burn is impressive, but I'm not going to sell my Vent and buy a Burn because I don't have a need to do so, even if everyone said the Burn sounded better.

 

The Vent and Burn are neat luxuries during a time when keyboards offer more options, sounds, price ranges, etc., than ever in the history of musical instruments.

 

Doesn't seem like much to argue about.

 

Greg

 

 

[Tonysounds]

+1

[Six-string-man]

The Burn price includes VAT & delivery. The Vent price includes VAT, but delivery is extra (assuming that the Vent comes from Thomann.

Ah yes, it depends where you are. In Germany, Thomann's shipping would be free. Elsewhere there would be a charge. But at least that is closer to an apples-to-apples comparison of what the two cost, at the same time, in the same place, with the same currency. As opposed to comparing a no-VAT no longer available introductory price in one country and currency to a with-VAT current price in another country and currency.

 

I think I've been complimented! Thanks AS.

 

Actually, it's even closer to apples/apples than you might imagine, I'm in the UK, the Vent comes from Germany, the Burn comes from Italy.

 

SSM

[Craig MacDonald]

Bif this isn't a Vent vs a Burn "smack-down" it's merely a thread about a new Red model of Ventilator that has expanded into a discussion of cost vs features, as compared to the changing marketplace..

 

It just happens that some of us seem to recognize that Neo Instruments is simply recycling their products in different shapes, colours and sizes, while the competition are bringing out new lower cost products, with many more features.