Winston Psmith Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I went out the other night to see John Hammond Jr. and Roy Bookbinder at a local club, as part of a weekend-long Blues festival. No amps, no bands, no BS, just two guys with guitars in their laps. Roy came out on stage, with his guitar case in hand, pulled out his guitar, sat down, sang a few songs and told a few stories, and then packed up his guitar, and left. It was like watching a happy little gnome play the Blues. John Hammond Jr. came out with two guitars, a resonator, and a small guitar that looked like a Martin parlor guitar. His style was raw, even primitive, but I have seldom witnessed such a display of power on any guitar! I wouldn't want to sit too close if you put an electric in his hands. I also couldn't help but see how alive these guys were, even though their styles were different, and it brought up a thought I'd had before - the old Blues guys seem to outlive the once-young Rock guys. Buddy Guy and B.B. are still rocking out, John Lee Hooker lived into his eighties, Hammond and Bookbinder are both around seventy. You just have to wonder. . . . FWIW, I can appreciate the seeming incongruity of two New York White guys as apostles of the Blues, but these guys got their music from the source. "Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King http://www.novparolo.com https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 "You don't have to black to play the blues, but it sure does help!" That oughtta be a mug... Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Sounds like a great show Winston. Glad you enjoyed it. You sure don't have to be black to play the blues, I lived a work life that I hated every day. I am qualified to play Stormy Monday Blues, not because I am black, but because I had a job that I hated every single day and every single hour. I was chained like a slave to it because I had kids to feed. I payed my dues. Now that said, other than work, I lived a great life so far. I have always had a lot of fun and at 70 years old, I am wondering if I will ever "grow up". I hope not............. The best blues player I ever heard or saw was Roy Buchanan, and he was as white as you can get....... He seemed like a tortured soul to me, so I assume he was qualified. To play like he played I think you must suffer internally with depression or some other thing. However I still do pay homage to the early black blues guys that started the whole genera. Back in those days if you were black, your whole life was infiltrated with blue feelings because of the stupid injustices they had to endure. They were the most qualified, I am just barely qualified......... dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 As for the long life thing... I think part of it is buying into the mythology. While blues players are as likely as anyone else to drink hard, do drugs, and indulge in other risky behaviors, it seems like some rock & rollers see all that as part of the job description* and/or goal, so they start earlier and do it harder. It's as if they HAVE to be blitzed & crazy to have any cred, while the bluesmen just do it for the "normal" reasons. * hence, mottoes like "Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll!" and "Live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse." Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I think anyone who drinks or does drugs beyond their ability to control and quit, do have the blues. I was a heavy drug user back in the day. I did an 8 ball of toot or more every single day for 5 or 6 years. And this was after a 20 year run of psychedelics, and occasional crank as well. One day I saw that it was hurting me badly, so I just stopped that day. I have never had a hard time stopping anything that hurt me. Tobacco, overeating, all no problem or only a small problem to eliminate. But just imaging if you can't stop. That in my humble opinion is the blues amigo. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 White players like Clapton, Winters, Trucks, Carlton, etc., can make it happen on the guitar. But they can't make it happen like BB, Muddy, Buddy, etc., can on the vocals... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I'll agree only to the others excluding Winters. He USED to handle the blues vocal excellently, but lately his health is too poor to manage even that. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Psmith Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 As for the long life thing... I think part of it is buying into the mythology. While blues players are as likely as anyone else to drink hard, do drugs, and indulge in other risky behaviors, it seems like some rock & rollers see all that as part of the job description* and/or goal, so they start earlier and do it harder. It's as if they HAVE to be blitzed & crazy to have any cred, while the bluesmen just do it for the "normal" reasons. * hence, mottoes like "Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll!" and "Live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse." I hear you, really -part of my point, in a way. The folks who went deep into the nihilist myth are mostly gone, drugs, suicide, cancer. Guys who really lived hard, like the old Bluesmen, well, I think they just knew better than to throw their lives away. Sure, there are some sad exceptions, like Mike Bloomfield, but again, he was part of that generation of young guys who learned the music from the old guys. "Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King http://www.novparolo.com https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I'll agree only to the others excluding Winters. He USED to handle the blues vocal excellently, but lately his health is too poor to manage even that. Whitefang Clapton sings some good blues too (as do other white blues vocal artists), but they just lack that little extra special something that black blues vocals have IMHO. As far as playing goes, they're all good! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEHpicker Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I disagree with the whole concept of pain, depression and suffering being mandatory in order to play the blues. That's BS.I know too many phenomenal guitarists and singers that have lived mostly happy and fulfilling lives but can absolutely bring the house down.It's sounds like some cool, exclusive club where the only way to be a member is to live a tortured life. NOT. Everybody goes through difficulties. Everybody gets depressed. Some more than others. That doesn't make them blues artists. The "blues" is just another genre of musical style. Even though blues tunes are usually about something sad or depressing, I don't think being that way is the magical ingredient that enables the artist to evoke emotional nuances into their playing or singing. IMHO SEHpicker The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 <--- here's a cool blues tune based upon real life experience. +1 SEHpicker you don't have to be in pain, depressed or suffering to play and sing the blues. Many tunes are written based upon hard times though with dreams of things getting better. Like Johnny B. Goode that has a cool little blues story that becomes a Rock and Roll have'n fun dance tune! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The blues isn't about "pain and suffering" per se. No need to have had a "tortured" life. But WHO'S going to be more convincing in say, singing a love song? Someone who's really known or been in love? Or some downy faced boy who's just warbling the words? Who can better convey the heartache of having the love of their life walk out on them...someone who's had it happen, or someone who hasn't? I think you get where I'm coming from... Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEHpicker Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The blues isn't about "pain and suffering" per se. No need to have had a "tortured" life. But WHO'S going to be more convincing in say, singing a love song? Someone who's really known or been in love? Or some downy faced boy who's just warbling the words? Who can better convey the heartache of having the love of their life walk out on them...someone who's had it happen, or someone who hasn't? I think you get where I'm coming from... Whitefang Yeah Fang - I do hear what you're saying and I understand the concept of opening up your heart and letting it all out. But I think the same can be said about joy. To me, music is more about being joyous and expressing that feeling. When I'm down I don't really feel like playing nearly as much as when I feel really good. When I feel good I play better! :idk SEHpicker The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Yes exclude JW! ask any of those old blues cats if JW is a bluesman of the first order, I bet they will say a resounding YES! http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hey, did any of you guys see or hear Winter's unused footage of his Woodstock performance? I understand there's a CD of it available. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Yes exclude JW! ask any of those old blues cats if JW is a bluesman of the first order, I bet they will say a resounding YES! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4KxCIvmwhg <--- here he is with an old blues cat in a classic interview. Can't exclude him when talking about vocals when comparing him to guys like BB and other black vocalists. BB loves his playing and welcomed him to sit in with his blues licks at a gig (BB did not like to let others sit-in at this club and this was a white guy asking to? All of the other blues cats love him as well and there is no doubt he gets the highest of accolades. I still hear something in the vocals of the black artists (like you will hear in the interview when BB sings) that I have not heard from Johnny yet. I do agree however that he is a blues icon and sings very well in the genre. Johnny admits to blurring the lines between rock and roll and blues in other interviews as one of his favorite things to do. I have to agree with him and I love to do the same thing. We both [pick] on the same tunes like Johnny B. Goode and Highway 61...but as BB said, he is lightning fast. I heard some good blues chord chops coming out of JW on this interview vid as well! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hey, did any of you guys see or hear Winter's unused footage of his Woodstock performance? I understand there's a CD of it available. Whitefang http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWjt5wl_P00 <---- here's a clip, not sure if it was unused? Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I disagree with the whole concept of pain, depression and suffering being mandatory in order to play the blues. That's BS. I know too many phenomenal guitarists and singers that have lived mostly happy and fulfilling lives but can absolutely bring the house down. It's sounds like some cool, exclusive club where the only way to be a member is to live a tortured life. NOT. Everybody goes through difficulties. Everybody gets depressed. Some more than others. That doesn't make them blues artists. The "blues" is just another genre of musical style. Even though blues tunes are usually about something sad or depressing, I don't think being that way is the magical ingredient that enables the artist to evoke emotional nuances into their playing or singing. IMHO Skill is one thing but to eek out those tortured soul blues notes takes more than skill. It has another ingredient I think. I have heard a lot of excellent players, awesome players in fact, that could bring the house down every night they step onstage. Bringing the house down has nothing to do with those folks who have that extra bit of "blues" in their melodic sense. Excellence in guitar is one thing, and that extra something, is a whole other thing. That is my $.02. I don't know what it is, I just try to imitate it a little. In fact I have heard guys that could hardly play, that have that extra something, I like to call it tortured soul because that is what it "looks" like to me. But I really do not know the full story on it. And if I have to be a tortured soul to get it, I will pass and that decision is easy to make...... Some blues players do not seem blue to me at all. I have seen BB live and sat right in front of him. And he was as happy looking as can be. He did not seem a bit tortured or "blue" to me. He just plays those few notes per measure in a pretty way, but he ain't got that tortured soul thing at all. I just call it "tortured soul" but I really don't know what it is or what else to call it. And I have heard it in other genera songs as well. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 For some players, the blues is about wallowing in your sorrows. For others, its about warding them off and exorcising them ("A shared pain is divided, a shared joy is multiplied"). BB King is of the latter variety. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Larry, thanks for the clip link to Winter's Woodstock gig. "Unused" refers to the fact none of the footage was used in the final cut of the documentary. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 <--- you're welcome Fang, here's a longer 10:25 minute clip. Looks like he's playing a Fender hockey stick 12 with half of the strings taken off...lots of close ups on the leads too... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingerstylin Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I know this doesn't follow the thread, but does anyone know the chords to "Big Bug in My Beer"? - thanks! Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 <--- C F & G...just play along with this video and you'll get'er done. Welcome aboard Fingerstylin! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 There are several flipsides as well-I had someone whisper in my ear-`best bluesman on the island` when I lived in Taiwan even though I didn`t consider myself a blues guy at all and now even more that`s not me-I sure can appreciate and listen to some good blues, but it`s not my direction. I guess `Bluesman` is more easy to pronounce than `Black guy who plays guitar`-I wonder if Tony MacAlpine ever gets that. Then there`s an artist like Beth Orton-she`s had more than enough tragedy in her life to qualify playing the blues and you can hear it in her vocal delivery-but she`s not connected to blues music at all. I feel like I`m more influenced by folk than blues, that music often comes from hard places in life as well. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Black guy who plays guitar Good to know- not enough of us. I still remember attending rock & metal concerts in the 1980-2000s and not only seeing few black performers, but realizing that the ones I DID see were rarely outnumbered by the ones in the audience...even counting myself. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Well I don`t like to walk around with an us and them mentality, about anything. I get really irked at someone getting at me about supporting `our` music-don`t EVEN get me started. Someone like Wyntom Marsalis-I respect him musically. As far as his point of view-I respect him musically. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Agreed. I don't get behind the us vs them mentality. Its why I go to shows I WANT to see, not the ones I'm SUPPOSED to see. Its why I loved Perry Farell for Lollapalooza. Its why I taught my rap-only cousins how similar hard rock & metal artists were to their idols. But it IS still occasionally unnerving being THE black guy in a stadium of thousands or a bar that has bikers as half its clientele just to see this band or that. There are still those who haven't gotten the memo that black people are...well..people. (Especially in the Southern USA...) Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 <--- you're welcome Fang, here's a longer 10:25 minute clip. Looks like he's playing a Fender hockey stick 12 with half of the strings taken off...lots of close ups on the leads too... Well, you know YouTube...there's a column on the right of the page with a list of related and other clips. So I clicked on a few of those as well. I watched 10 minutes of Winters "Live at Montreux" until I had to turn it off. My PC's speakers were MELTING! But there was another clip that caught my attention...Johnny and Edgar doing "Frankenstein"(1970). I knew Edgar was multi-instrumental, but had NO idea he was that good a DRUMMER! It was claimed the riff was something Johnny had played around with for a while but didn't do much with at first. Interesting stuff. Winters always seemed to be unfairly underrated by everyone but other guitarists. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Yeah, the Edgar connection interviews caught my eye too...+1 on interesting stuff... Speaking of Woodstock, Janis Joplin could bridge the gap between Hippy, R&R, Soul and Blues on her live performance of Take Another Little Piece of My Heart. She had a great blues voice IMHO. Another great artist from that era that could belt out a good blues vocal is Joe Cocker... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Don't forget Gregg Allman as another white guy that could belt out the blues. His "Whipping Post" vocal is at the top of this kind of list. Wouldn't you like to hear, at their prime, how either Winters or Cocker would make that song sound? Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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