HammondDave Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Personally I apologize to the forum members, and especially to Craig, for anything I may have written that could have been mistaken as a post of confrontation. I thought I made it clear what my motives are, and they certainly are not to embarrass anyone (especially myself). There are members of this forum who take their instruments very personally, and I appreciate that. I also think we all agree that we want to make manufacturers aware of what musicians like to see in their products, and when they do not offer sufficient customer service. Some of us are somewhat passionate about this. So now its time to move on.... Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messiaen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Apart from bitching about each other its been a very useful thread about an interesting new instrument. I know nothing about Hammonds or clones so not able to comment on whether its accurate or not. Out of many keyboards i've tried its certainly been the most FUN, for tweakability its great. It is what it is, a compromised product, that trys to do a lot at a very low price. I do hope roland fix the bugs, and increase potential, new sounds etc, then i might pull the trigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 any clues on how to get the organ mode to responde to ext controller midi transpose Are you sure that the notes are transposed ? Yes piano tones etc play the transposed notes How are they transposed ? Tranposed on CDP100 per casio manual Did you try sniffing the MIDI output of your controller to see what messages Got No sniffer are sent ? Tell us what kind of message you see when playing. NA I think that the organ will not process pitch bend messages (contrary to the synth section for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 This has been a good thread, despite perhaps a bit too much defensiveness from the polar spectrum of the haters vs. rabid fans (LOL). I've been lukewarm at best on the VR-09 after playing it and seeing demos at NAMM. However, I do see a niche fit for a board like this in my arsenal, very much like Craig's use as purely a backup or cheap date kind of gigs. I may be getting one for just this reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Sometimes the "cheap dates" are the most interesting ones.... Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnermike Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I've been quiet for a while on this thread. I was one of the first posters to buy a VR-09 and report on it. I still find it to be a very good value for the money, a keyboard that would certainly be found "giggable" by many KB players more talented and skilled than I am, and a decidedly light and easily loadable/transportable KB---important when one is 63 years old and has recurring lower back issues. I think its organ tones and rotary sim is unmatched by any other KB on the market for less than $1700. I think its APs and EPs are very decent. Its keybed is perfectly acceptable TO ME. But I admit here that I have returned it--not because it's inherently a bad product, but because it doesn't fit my skill set (which is admittedly pretty rudimentary) and my IMMEDIATE needs with my current band. First, I play lots of songs with straight drawbar organ tones, which the VR09 handled really well. I also play lots of songs that need layering keyboard sounds over a rotaried organ, which the VR-09 couldn't deal with (as it leslied those KB sounds sounds too, producing an awful effect. Big issue for me). Second, I play in transposed keys a lot, and I also switch registered personal sounds within individual songs. The VR-09's not allowing systemic transposing across registrations (it always returns to the key of C when switching user registrations) made life during the performance of a song an issue for me (I am playing left hand bass on a 2nd lower keyboard, and simply do not have time and/or enough hands to deal with more button pushing, mid-song). I didn't want to wait to see if Roland would ever fix these two things with updates, so I returned the VR-09 while I could still get my money back. All this said, I still say that Roland broke some important new ground with the VR-9 (a <$1000 KB with a great (IMO) drawbar'ed organ and leslie sim that weighed only 12 lbs.). I continue to use my SK1 as my main board, even though I truly hate its overly fast FAST rotary sound (so much so, that I use a Roland RT-20 rotary pedal with it). So, today, I have no back-up board that can cover things if the SK1 fritzes. I wait for one of the major KB makers to produce something similar to the VR-09, in its price range or less, and without the rotaried layering and transposed key change issues. I'll bet on Casio to do that. Quote KB: Hammond SK1 Bass KB: Yamaha MX49 KB Amps: CPS SS3, linked to TurboSound IP300 Bass KB amp: Fender Rumble 500 combo www.mikemickxer.com www.reverbnation.com/mikemickxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voxpops Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 This has been a good thread, despite perhaps a bit too much defensiveness from the polar spectrum of the haters vs. rabid fans (LOL). I've been lukewarm at best on the VR-09 after playing it and seeing demos at NAMM. However, I do see a niche fit for a board like this in my arsenal, very much like Craig's use as purely a backup or cheap date kind of gigs. I may be getting one for just this reason. "Lukewarm" is precisely the response that I had to it, and yet I still bought it (after initially dismissing it). Just a few minutes ago I was using it to work out some parts for recordings that we're doing at the moment, and it was useful on a recent gig. I don't think it will go down in my personal musical-endeavors history book as the greatest keyboard I've ever owned, but it's proving to be a handy tool, and can be fun to play due to the live controls and sound that cuts through nicely. To be honest, I really don't think it warrants the extreme views at either end of the spectrum, as it's an OK board at a realistic price - very middle-of-the-road in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I've been quiet for a while on this thread. I was one of the first posters to buy a VR-09 and report on it. I still find it to be a very good value for the money, a keyboard that would certainly be found "giggable" by many KB players more talented and skilled than I am, and a decidedly light and easily loadable/transportable KB---important when one is 63 years old and has recurring lower back issues. I think its organ tones and rotary sim is unmatched by any other KB on the market for less than $1700. I think its APs and EPs are very decent. Its keybed is perfectly acceptable TO ME. But I admit here that I have returned it--not because it's inherently a bad product, but because it doesn't fit my skill set (which is admittedly pretty rudimentary) and my IMMEDIATE needs with my current band. First, I play lots of songs with straight drawbar organ tones, which the VR09 handled really well. I also play lots of songs that need layering keyboard sounds over a rotaried organ, which the VR-09 couldn't deal with (as it leslied those KB sounds sounds too, producing an awful effect. Big issue for me). Second, I play in transposed keys a lot, and I also switch registered personal sounds within individual songs. The VR-09's not allowing systemic transposing across registrations (it always returns to the key of C when switching user registrations) made life during the performance of a song an issue for me (I am playing left hand bass on a 2nd lower keyboard, and simply do not have time and/or enough hands to deal with more button pushing, mid-song). Now this is a show stopper for me DAMN! I need to quick switch from horns to piano to organ on the fly and stay in the transpose I started with for the horns. switching registrations to find im back at C is BAD on both my previous bds Fantom FA76 & Alesis Qs7 staying in master global kbd page let me quick change transpose for all patch changes "favorates etc I didn't want to wait to see if Roland would ever fix these two things with updates, so I returned the VR-09 while I could still get my money back. All this said, I still say that Roland broke some important new ground with the VR-9 (a <$1000 KB with a great (IMO) drawbar'ed organ and leslie sim that weighed only 12 lbs.). I continue to use my SK1 as my main board, even though I truly hate its overly fast FAST rotary sound (so much so, that I use a Roland RT-20 rotary pedal with it). So, today, I have no back-up board that can cover things if the SK1 fritzes. I wait for one of the major KB makers to produce something similar to the VR-09, in its price range or less, and without the rotaried layering and transposed key change issues. I'll bet on Casio to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Sorry for that last post "Second, I play in transposed keys a lot, and I also switch registered personal sounds within individual songs. The VR-09's not allowing systemic transposing across registrations (it always returns to the key of C when switching user registrations) made life during the performance of a song an issue for me (I am playing left hand bass on a 2nd lower keyboard, and simply do not have time and/or enough hands to deal with more button pushing, mid-song)." Now this is a show stopper for me DAMN! I need to quick switch from horns to piano to organ on the fly and stay in the transpose I started with for the horns. switching registrations to find im back at C is BAD. On both my previous bds Fantom FA76 & Alesis Qs7 staying in master global kbd page let me quick change transpose for all patch changes "favorates etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenner13 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Each registration can be saved in a specific transposed key. I have not used MIDI with this board yet, so not sure how to get it to respond to a controller's transpose message. I'd have to assume that the upper only responds to channel 4, lower responds to channel 3, and pedal is designated to channel 2. This is MIDI mode 2, I believe. I think MIDI mode 1 is for accessing General MIDI? Need to dig into the manual to verify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenner13 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 There is no global transpose in the VR09; only master tune that does go up or down a half-step: A=440 Hz, A#=466.16 Hz, Ab=415.3 Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 OK thanks to all for the bad news for us "cheaters" So the best work around is save a songs worth of patches as a bank and transpose one bank for each transposed key used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenner13 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Whoops, Craig pointed out on the other thread that the front panel buttons DO in fact function as global X-pose and will hold that key while changing among the presets. Once a registration is chosen, transpose will revert to however that particular registration was saved at. As you exit registration, transpose reverts to 0 or "C". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I never really participated in this thread but if it died it might not be a bad idea. Now we have two threads about a keyboard that no one will care about in six months. I am surprised the moderators have not locked the thread. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 If like my fantom it should not save a local but respond to global transpose on all user & preset patches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 How about some Roland consistancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I never really participated in this thread but if it died it might not be a bad idea. Now we have two threads about a keyboard that no one will care about in six months. I am surprised the moderators have not locked the thread. Sorry I can't agree about 6mos Even Roland flops are blog topics for yrs. I am liking the live sounds of this vr so much I am still willing to live with its significant flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I never really participated in this thread but if it died it might not be a bad idea. Now we have two threads about a keyboard that no one will care about in six months. I am surprised the moderators have not locked the thread. Sorry I can't agree about 6mos Even Roland flops are blog topics for yrs. I am liking the live sounds of this vr so much I am still willing to live with its significant flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 OK but the length of the thread is more what I mean. That's all. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenner13 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Only time will tell whether this thing is will saturate the market, but there will likely always be a cult following. Even though my VK1000 is nearly the farthest away from a real Hammond sound one can get for a clone, I having a hard time parting with it BECAUSE of its unique tones. Heck, have you seen the silly eBay prices on some of the classic consumer grade Yammies and Casiotones from the 80's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Only time will tell whether this thing is will saturate the market, but there will likely always be a cult following. Even though my VK1000 is nearly the farthest away from a real Hammond sound one can get for a clone, I having a hard time parting with it BECAUSE of its unique tones. Heck, have you seen the silly eBay prices on some of the classic consumer grade Yammies and Casiotones from the 80's? You can't underestimate the whims of the consumer.... Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Whoops, Craig pointed out on the other thread that the front panel buttons DO in fact function as global X-pose and will hold that key while changing among the presets. Once a registration is chosen, transpose will revert to however that particular registration was saved at. As you exit registration, transpose reverts to 0 or "C". All is fine...except if you have to change registrations. Lets say you are performing "Rosanna"... or "Africa" (which has several synth sounds that would be impossible to split among the small VR-09 keyboard). You would have to change registrations several times in order to play all these synth sounds during the song... Now this would depend on how many times you play multiple registrations and how often you need to transpose. Still, it's just another head scratching design decision by Roland.... Especially for a "Performance Keyboard". Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Exacly the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekewaka Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 ...well, the other workaround is to learn the song in various keys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 ...well, the other workaround is to learn the song in various keys... I just can't imagine that it would be so difficult for Roland to implement a global transpose that would override the preset registrations... Again, a poor design decision... Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekewaka Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 ...well, the other workaround is to learn the song in various keys... I just can't imagine that it would be so difficult for Roland to implement a global transpose that would override the preset registrations... Again, a poor design decision... It could indeed be handy for blues organ gigs where the guitar player insists on using Eb tuning to be close to his SRV hero across all the songs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 See another sit why I Need this feature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 ...well, the other workaround is to learn the song in various keys... I just can't imagine that it would be so difficult for Roland to implement a global transpose that would override the preset registrations... Again, a poor design decision... It could indeed be handy for blues organ gigs where the guitar player insists on using Eb tuning to be close to his SRV hero across all the songs.... At the expense of sounding like our friend on the other thread, most blues gigs would not require you to use multiple registrations during a song. Where the VR-09 is crippled in relation to the lack of global transpositions over several presets is more applicable to the example I gave above.... Oh oh... Defending he VR-09? What IS my "ulterior motive"? LOL .... such strange paranoia. Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenner13 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 The front panel transpose buttons are soooo easy and are global in their function. Transpose can be save to a registration and while in that registration you can still access all 200+ presets and even access the VA and remain transposed. It is super easy to alter and save registrations, so if there are multiple keys to a given tune/set just save 'em sequentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The front panel transpose buttons are soooo easy and are global in their function. Transpose can be save to a registration and while in that registration you can still access all 200+ presets and even access the VA and remain transposed. It is super easy to alter and save registrations, so if there are multiple keys to a given tune/set just save 'em sequentially. Sure... that's real easy to do on the fly between songs.... "Excuse me guys, but if you want to play "Rosanna" up a sharp I need about five minutes to reprogram my registrations".... Yeah.. Piece of cake... Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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