Roland V-Combo VR-09

[brenner13]

Mike, as an SK1 owner, in what areas do you think the SK1 is unequivocally better than the VR?

 

I need to play a few gigs with the VR-09 to really answer from a position of experience. I promise I will. But right now, the keys (and touch and feel of them) are much better on the SK1.

 

Wow! I just dialed back the keyboard touch to 6 from the default setting of 10 and the EP's came to life for me on this somewhat shallow keybed. Much better control of the velo switching on the AcGtrSld, too.

[simchaleh]

SB, I was looking at the roland website to see how they described the vk engine in the BK-9 and its NOT described as a supernatural instrument, like the VR-09.. So that leads me to believe that the organ in the BK-9 is the VK8 version rather than the new engine in the VR-09.. Have you looked at the description of the BK-9?

yeah. but its hard to tell anything conclusive from the website. one would imagine or hope at least that they would use the same engine from the vr09 on the bk9 and same tones for the organ parts, especially since theyve come out so close together, and they both are using drawbars. they do mention that theres some tones that do have the supernatural tone thingy.

 

heres the only lead from the website i could get:

" Also included are 500 all-new tones, specially selected for the BK-9 from the expansive Roland libraries. The Virtual Tone Wheel sound engine puts legendary organ tones at your fingers, with front-panel harmonic bars and a rotary effect for authentic organ performance."

 

i was curious also if its just the same idea as the bk5 but with updated interface and controllers (which is a huge plus since the bk5 is lacking on board controllers very much) or if it more of an upscale arranger with better more proffesional tones. i guess i should open up a seperate thread for this, but once we got on the topic, and you are a great connection for someone who can speak directly with roland.

 

thnks. sb

[Josh Paxton]

More thoughts after spending a full evening with it...

 

I'm now thoroughly convinced that this board will do exactly what I need it to do, which is to serve as a compact, lightweight, all-in-one board to get me through quick-and-dirty cover band gigs. (Actually they're long and dirty, but who's counting?) In the past month I've bought and returned both a 61-key Krome and an MX61 for that purpose, hoping they would do the job. They didn't. This one will.

 

I mentioned earlier that I was pleasantly surprised by the feel of the keys, and that hasn't worn off after a few hours of playing. It's certainly not a high-end keybed, but it's a decent step above other low-end keybeds I've played recently. It seems (subjectively, and without a side-by-side comparison) a bit less shallow than either the Krome or the MX61. (Whether it actually is, or whether that's simply a result of programming, I can't say.) More importantly, the keys seem sturdier -- especially more so than the Krome, which made me worry I was gonna snap a key off every time I did an organ smear. Someone upthread said they liked it better than the Sk1 keybed. Personally I would not say that; I think the Sk1 feels better (as does the unweighted Nord, and the Mojo, and the unweighted Kronos). But I have no problem making music with it and playing expressively. Probably the most telling thing I can say is that when I gave it the initial, highly rushed run-through earlier, I didn't notice or think about the feel of the keys at all; I just sat there and played, and had fun doing it. Contrast that with the Krome, whose keybed made me recoil in horror after about two chords.

 

The piano sounds are better than I was expecting, especially after an earlier post remarking about how the loops audibly kick in after a second or so. While I can hear what that person was talking about, it's nowhere near as audible as it is on, for example, the SV-1 pianos, which I played happily for a long time. I like these pianos a good deal better than the ones on the MX61, which I thought sounded suspiciously like the Yamaha rompler I had circa 1996. They're not in the same league as the Krome's, but of course that is the Krome's major selling point.

 

The EPs are admittedly a bit of a letdown. Only one Rhodes and one Wurli, a little plastic-sounding, only three velocity layers, and more jumpy and hard to control than the APs. But I will definitely be trying out brenner13's suggestion of adjusting the touch setting. Even if that doesn't help, they're still good enough to do what I need them to do. I'd call them comparable to the MX, not as good as the Krome.

 

Clavs... eh, they're rompler Clavs. If you wanted a serious Clav emulation, you wouldn't be looking at this board. These will get you through "Superstition" and "Funky Music." 'Nuff said.

 

As for the organ, I don't have much new to add to the already lengthy discussions. It's not in the same league as the costlier clones, but it is far, far better than any rompler organ, which was one of the big reasons I couldn't live with either the Krome or the MX. It will work just fine for my purposes.

 

The other miscellaneous sounds are plentiful enough and tweakable enough to cover my other miscellaneous needs. The only area where I see myself needing to explore much beyond the presets is to get some good pop brass section patches. Even though the brass section presets aren't quite what I want, they leave me optimistic that I'll be able to get it.

 

A note on the power supply. I should preface this by saying that external power supplies have never bothered me, and I'm of the opinion that people who complain about them need to (wo)man up, quit their whining and learn how to take care of their gear. That said, the connection on this one seems more robust than most I've encountered. The cable is substantial, it has a right-angle plug, and the jack on the back panel is surrounded by a sturdy rubber ring that the plug fits snugly into. I can't imagine anyone worrying about Bad Things happening from bumping into it.

 

Random note: happily the VR fits nicely inside the gig bag for the Nord Stage 2 Compact, which is the board it's replacing on my gig. When I put it on my back with nothing else in the case, it practically feels like the case is empty, which is a downright beautiful thing. But since the VR is a few inches shorter than the Stage 2, there's enough space left at one end for an FC-7 pedal. Then the front pocket can hold the power supply, sustain pedal and a couple cables, which would let me eliminate my cable bag entirely if not for the other stuff I compulsively carry in there. Though frankly, the idea of being able to carry literally everything I need in one bag is so appealing, it may be enough to wean me off of carrying all that crap.

 

On one hand, it seems a little strange to be so happy about a board that frankly is the cheapest, lowest-quality keyboard I own. But I got it to do a specific job, and all indications are that it will do that job very well, making my life simpler and more enjoyable in the process. I'll report back again once I've had it in the trenches.

[AnotherScott]

happily the VR fits nicely inside the gig bag for the Nord Stage 2 Compact, which is the board it's replacing on my gig.

Wow. First we have someone using the VR-09 as an SK1 replacement, and now someone using it as an NS2-73 replacement. While I saw the huge potential appeal of the board, I have to admit, I would not have thought it would have had so much appeal to people who already owned those other boards. (Not that I don't understand the appeal of minimal weight, but these other boards are not particularly heavy to begin with.)

[Bill W]

I was wondering what you guys think of the synth engine in the VR-09. Is it actually a VA or just a ROMpler? I installed the iPad app, but without the keyboard, it's kind of hard to tell exactly what it is.

[garnermike]

More thoughts after spending a full evening with it...

 

I'm now thoroughly convinced that this board will do exactly what I need it to do, which is to serve as a compact, lightweight, all-in-one board to get me through quick-and-dirty cover band gigs. (Actually they're long and dirty, but who's counting?) In the past month I've bought and returned both a 61-key Krome and an MX61 for that purpose, hoping they would do the job. They didn't. This one will.

 

I mentioned earlier that I was pleasantly surprised by the feel of the keys, and that hasn't worn off after a few hours of playing. It's certainly not a high-end keybed, but it's a decent step above other low-end keybeds I've played recently. It seems (subjectively, and without a side-by-side comparison) a bit less shallow than either the Krome or the MX61. (Whether it actually is, or whether that's simply a result of programming, I can't say.) More importantly, the keys seem sturdier -- especially more so than the Krome, which made me worry I was gonna snap a key off every time I did an organ smear. Someone upthread said they liked it better than the Sk1 keybed. Personally I would not say that; I think the Sk1 feels better (as does the unweighted Nord, and the Mojo, and the unweighted Kronos). But I have no problem making music with it and playing expressively. Probably the most telling thing I can say is that when I gave it the initial, highly rushed run-through earlier, I didn't notice or think about the feel of the keys at all; I just sat there and played, and had fun doing it. Contrast that with the Krome, whose keybed made me recoil in horror after about two chords.

 

The piano sounds are better than I was expecting, especially after an earlier post remarking about how the loops audibly kick in after a second or so. While I can hear what that person was talking about, it's nowhere near as audible as it is on, for example, the SV-1 pianos, which I played happily for a long time. I like these pianos a good deal better than the ones on the MX61, which I thought sounded suspiciously like the Yamaha rompler I had circa 1996. They're not in the same league as the Krome's, but of course that is the Krome's major selling point.

 

The EPs are admittedly a bit of a letdown. Only one Rhodes and one Wurli, a little plastic-sounding, only three velocity layers, and more jumpy and hard to control than the APs. But I will definitely be trying out brenner13's suggestion of adjusting the touch setting. Even if that doesn't help, they're still good enough to do what I need them to do. I'd call them comparable to the MX, not as good as the Krome.

 

Clavs... eh, they're rompler Clavs. If you wanted a serious Clav emulation, you wouldn't be looking at this board. These will get you through "Superstition" and "Funky Music." 'Nuff said.

 

As for the organ, I don't have much new to add to the already lengthy discussions. It's not in the same league as the costlier clones, but it is far, far better than any rompler organ, which was one of the big reasons I couldn't live with either the Krome or the MX. It will work just fine for my purposes.

 

The other miscellaneous sounds are plentiful enough and tweakable enough to cover my other miscellaneous needs. The only area where I see myself needing to explore much beyond the presets is to get some good pop brass section patches. Even though the brass section presets aren't quite what I want, they leave me optimistic that I'll be able to get it.

 

A note on the power supply. I should preface this by saying that external power supplies have never bothered me, and I'm of the opinion that people who complain about them need to (wo)man up, quit their whining and learn how to take care of their gear. That said, the connection on this one seems more robust than most I've encountered. The cable is substantial, it has a right-angle plug, and the jack on the back panel is surrounded by a sturdy rubber ring that the plug fits snugly into. I can't imagine anyone worrying about Bad Things happening from bumping into it.

 

Random note: happily the VR fits nicely inside the gig bag for the Nord Stage 2 Compact, which is the board it's replacing on my gig. When I put it on my back with nothing else in the case, it practically feels like the case is empty, which is a downright beautiful thing. But since the VR is a few inches shorter than the Stage 2, there's enough space left at one end for an FC-7 pedal. Then the front pocket can hold the power supply, sustain pedal and a couple cables, which would let me eliminate my cable bag entirely if not for the other stuff I compulsively carry in there. Though frankly, the idea of being able to carry literally everything I need in one bag is so appealing, it may be enough to wean me off of carrying all that crap.

 

On one hand, it seems a little strange to be so happy about a board that frankly is the cheapest, lowest-quality keyboard I own. But I got it to do a specific job, and all indications are that it will do that job very well, making my life simpler and more enjoyable in the process. I'll report back again once I've had it in the trenches.

 

Yes, I did not earlier mention the external power supply hook-up in my long review, but it is a very solid connection and world's more reassuring that the SK1's input plug. With every plugging in of the SK1, I find myself thinking "this plug-in is gonna fail some day soon." The Roland's is tight-fitting and firmly implanted.

[Craig MacDonald]

Yes, I did not earlier mention the external power supply hook-up in my long review, but it is a very solid connection and world's more reassuring that the SK1's input plug. With every plugging in of the SK1, I find myself thinking "this plug-in is gonna fail some day soon." The Roland's is tight-fitting and firmly implanted.

 

I guess this is one area that the VR-09 is better than an SK1 (along with it's VA synth and better split layer capabilities).. So much for all of the nay-sayers who've been dissing the VR-09 for build quality... For the record I think the build quality fit/finish is perfectly fine, and perhaps even better than I might expect for a $999 keyboard. This inexpensive keyboard has worked perfectly out of the box, whereas the SK1 and the NUMA (that I paid twice as much for) were both defective out of the box!

 

Seems to me that everyone who's ordered this thing and spent some time with it, is really liking it and surprised at how good the organ sounds.

[Craig MacDonald]

I was wondering what you guys think of the synth engine in the VR-09. Is it actually a VA or just a ROMpler? I installed the iPad app, but without the keyboard, it's kind of hard to tell exactly what it is.

Bill, the VR-09 engine is being referred to as "supernatural" which, in Roland-speak, basically means it's a modelled instrument. To what extent it's modelled I don't know.. the tones could be sampled, and then everything else beyond that is modelled (such as C/V, percussion, leakage/crosstalk etc).. but it's definately a modelling engine.

[brenner13]

Seems to me that everyone who's ordered this thing and spent some time with it, is really liking it and surprised at how good the organ sounds.

 

+1

[Craig MacDonald]

FKS, thanks for the review.. I agree with most of your assessment, but personally I don't have a problem with the EP's.. once you get in and start playing with them, you can get them sounding pretty good..

 

YES the VR-09 is really light and easy to carry around. I dropped back into the store I bought my VR-09 from yesterday to see the Roland Rep about my iPad editor problem (which is now fixed) and I had my VR-09 and my iPad under my arm, and I thought to myself.... this, with an X-stand and K10, could be my gig rig..!! I had this sense of freedom, that I can only imagine felt like being incarcerated for 30 years and finally being released out into the world.. well maybe it wasn't quite like that, but it was a cool feeling..

 

 

[brenner13]

I was wondering what you guys think of the synth engine in the VR-09. Is it actually a VA or just a ROMpler? I installed the iPad app, but without the keyboard, it's kind of hard to tell exactly what it is.

Bill, the VR-09 engine is being referred to as "supernatural" which, in Roland-speak, basically means it's a modelled instrument. To what extent it's modelled I don't know.. the tones could be sampled, and then everything else beyond that is modelled (such as C/V, percussion, leakage/crosstalk etc).. but it's definately a modelling engine.

 

I think only the organ is designated as "SuperNatural" in the VR09. If the "VA" Bill W is inquiring about refers to the synth section, those are just PCM's, but you can layer 3 PCM's on the upper part and 3 on a lower to make some phenomenally enormous synth noise. Each PCM has its own set of filters, LFO's, tunings, wave shapers, and the like...really fun and easy with the iPad.

[AnotherScott]

This inexpensive keyboard has worked perfectly out of the box, whereas the SK1 and the NUMA (that I paid twice as much for) were both defective out of the box!

I remember you didn't keep the Numa, but you kept the SK1, right? So it sounds like, like Mike, you are looking at the VR-09 as an occasional (or maybe permanent?) SK1 replacement? (Sorry if you may have addressed this... 34 pages is too much for me to scan!)

 

I had my VR-09 and my iPad under my arm, and I thought to myself.... this, with an X-stand and K10, could be my gig rig..!! I had this sense of freedom

If you can get by with less volume, now you could look at replacing the 32 pound K10 with a 19 pound ZXa1... that's very noticeably lighter, and many of us think it sounds better besides.

[Bill W]

I was wondering what you guys think of the synth engine in the VR-09. Is it actually a VA or just a ROMpler? I installed the iPad app, but without the keyboard, it's kind of hard to tell exactly what it is.

Bill, the VR-09 engine is being referred to as "supernatural" which, in Roland-speak, basically means it's a modelled instrument. To what extent it's modelled I don't know.. the tones could be sampled, and then everything else beyond that is modelled (such as C/V, percussion, leakage/crosstalk etc).. but it's definately a modelling engine.

 

I think only the organ is designated as "SuperNatural" in the VR09. If the "VA" Bill W is inquiring about refers to the synth section, those are just PCM's, but you can layer 3 PCM's on the upper part and 3 on a lower to make some phenomenally enormous synth noise. Each PCM has its own set of filters, LFO's, tunings, wave shapers, and the like...really fun and easy with the iPad.

 

Thanks guys...so it's basically just a good old Roland PCM synth. I'll grab the documents to see what's in the waveform list.

[Craig MacDonald]

Sorry Bill, my mistake, didn't see the VA reference, when I read/respond to these things on my iPhone I often am limited by my inability to properly read the messages.. (combination of old age and perhaps it's time for a new prescription??) Thanks Brenner for correcting me on this..

 

That said, it's really an odd question, asking of a VA synth is modelled..? I think the answer is sort of yes... it uses these PCM sample/loops as the basis for the sounds and then it uses various algorithms to modify the resonance and ADSR characteristics etc.. I'm assuming that the filters are designed to emulate typical analog filters.. so that's modelling right?

 

Same as the organ... the tones themselves may be sampled (or not, they could be algorithms), but how they are treated (percussion/C/V etc) is done via modelling algorithms.. likely the same thing with the VA synth.. it starts with a bunch of short loop/samples and everything else is modelled. (I would think)..

 

 

[Bill W]

Thanks, Craig. I was trying to figure out whether this would be closer to the Jupiter's engine or the Fantom's engine (which I'm very familiar with). It looks like the "waveform list" is top secret...it doesn't appear in the documentation.

[Craig MacDonald]

This inexpensive keyboard has worked perfectly out of the box, whereas the SK1 and the NUMA (that I paid twice as much for) were both defective out of the box!

I remember you didn't keep the Numa, but you kept the SK1, right? So it sounds like, like Mike, you are looking at the VR-09 as an occasional (or maybe permanent?) SK1 replacement? (Sorry if you may have addressed this... 34 pages is too much for me to scan!)

 

I had my VR-09 and my iPad under my arm, and I thought to myself.... this, with an X-stand and K10, could be my gig rig..!! I had this sense of freedom

If you can get by with less volume, now you could look at replacing the 32 pound K10 with a 19 pound ZXa1... that's very noticeably lighter, and many of us think it sounds better besides.

 

NO I returned both the NUMA and the SK1, and that was unfortunate.. I LOVED the sound/feel of the NUMA.. and it is arguably the best single manual hammond clone out there (with the exception of the KeyB solo, perhaps.. ). The SK1 had excessive noise in the Extra Voices, and once I played with it for 48 hours I realized that it wasn't going to work for me.. (poor/limited Extra Voices and on split/layers one part HAD to be Organ).

 

I love the K10 and my 11STEPS classic rock band plays pretty loud, so I think I'll probably be sticking with the K10, but I'll have a look at that ZXa1, thanks for the suggestion.

[Craig MacDonald]

Thanks, Craig. I was trying to figure out whether this would be closer to the Jupiter's engine or the Fantom's engine (which I'm very familiar with). It looks like the "waveform list" is top secret...it doesn't appear in the documentation.

 

Bill, I'm not that familiar with the new Jupiter series, and I could be wrong, but from what I've seen/heard the VR-09 synth is basically the same one that's in the new Jupiter series with exactly the same PCM sample set etc.. SO I think the answer is that it's a Jupiter style synth. BTW, I think that having Rolands premier Jupiter synth engine in this $999 keyboard is amazing.

[brenner13]

Thanks, Craig. I was trying to figure out whether this would be closer to the Jupiter's engine or the Fantom's engine (which I'm very familiar with). It looks like the "waveform list" is top secret...it doesn't appear in the documentation.

 

The PCM list is identical to the new Jupiters'. If you have downloaded the app, you can view them by pressing the wave button on the synth screen until the red light next to PCM illuminates. Then tap the number field next to that to cause it to highlight blue, then press the numbers again. At the bottom of the pop-up list press select or cancel to exit. A tad clunky at first, but once you've done it...

[AnotherScott]

NO I returned both the NUMA and the SK1, and that was unfortunate.. I LOVED the sound/feel of the NUMA.. and it is arguably the best single manual hammond clone out there (with the exception of the KeyB solo, perhaps.. ). The SK1 had excessive noise in the Extra Voices, and once I played with it for 48 hours I realized that it wasn't going to work for me.. (poor/limited Extra Voices and on split/layers one part HAD to be Organ).

Ah. So you liked the Numa Organ better than the SK1 as an organ, but picked the SK for its extra voice functionality which ended up not being good enough anyway... but the VR-09 "extra voice" functionality is good enough. Interesting. If Numa had more market presence (and better support), it sounds like Hammond might be pretty tightly squeezed from both sides.

 

As for the difference between the Numa Organ and the KeyB, based on the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2465896/I_m_still_Lovin_my_Numa_Organ_

I think it may be a matter of which organ settings it has loaded into it. That is, if the KeyB default is the A100, I think the Numa might sound the same if you loaded the downloadable A100 files into it, since they apparently do use the same underlying engine. But I would be curious to see if there's any difference if anyone ever had the opportunity to play the two side-by-side with the same organ models loaded into them. (An unlikely scenario, I admit!) Of course, there are still aesthetic and ergonomic differences. And I wonder if the KeyB might be more immune from the glitches that seem to invariably plague anything that comes out of Studiologic. But I have to say, having recently acquired a Numa, I'm very happy with it, there's just something very satisfying about playing it. The rotary speed control was out of calibration (that's Studiologic for you), but it was an easy mechanical fix that voxpops helped me through. (Thanks again, Vox!)

 

[Craig MacDonald]

AnotherScott, yes I loved the Numa, but I experienced the reliability and poor support first hand (in hindsight I think I had the loose control panel cable problem).. In the case of the Numa if their support was better I would have accepted a replacement, but the crappy support scared me.. so did the lack of documentation, and the quirky midi controller issues. Yes different situation with the SK.. I wanted the SK to be an all-in-one that I could use for small gigs, and the EV's were so medocre and not comprehensive (didn't even have warm strings) so I realized that the it wasn't going to work for me.

 

So I agree that it's lucky for Hammond that the Numa had some issues otherwise... AND as you point out, if you're looking for a "clone with benefits" (hammond clone plus extra voices).. I think that the extra voices on the VR-09 (including a fully functional top of the line Jupiter VA synth) are far superior to the SK's extra voices. The other thing I prefer about the VR-09 is that it has a joystick for pitchbend and modulation. Most keyboard players that appreciate and use these VA synth tones, are going to want a joystick. It's a big plus/must for synth stuff, and another plus for the VR-09 over the SK.

 

I've said this a dozen times.. the VR-09 is a suprisingly good sounding organ, the VA synth is top of the line, and the other voices are all good to great quality.. this VR-09 is great value.

 

 

[Josh Paxton]

Wow. First we have someone using the VR-09 as an SK1 replacement, and now someone using it as an NS2-73 replacement. While I saw the huge potential appeal of the board, I have to admit, I would not have thought it would have had so much appeal to people who already owned those other boards. (Not that I don't understand the appeal of minimal weight, but these other boards are not particularly heavy to begin with.)

 

Yeah, I admit it's a little counterintuitive to "upgrade" to a new board that's demonstrably inferior to the old one in almost every way. But weight isn't the only factor. There's also physical size. On the gig I'm using it for, we're packed onstage tightly enough that those few extra inches really do make a noticeable difference. I wouldn't have thought that was the case until I used another 61-note board on the gig while the Nord was in the shop, and saw how much easier it made negotiating the logistics.

 

And that segues nicely into the other factor: the reason the Nord was in the shop was because of gunk that had accumulated inside due to the environment of the venue (not for the first time either; more like the third or fourth in the year and a half I've had it). It's a Bourbon Street club, and it's a pretty filthy place. Among regular players in that scene, it's common knowledge that the environment shortens the lifespan of gear considerably -- and that's even without the factor of having drinks spilled on it, which is way more likely than in most other venues. If I'm gonna continue to put an instrument through that, I'd rather it be a thousand-dollar board I don't care much about, than a $3600 one I'd really like to keep around for a while.

[Craig MacDonald]

Thanks, Craig. I was trying to figure out whether this would be closer to the Jupiter's engine or the Fantom's engine (which I'm very familiar with). It looks like the "waveform list" is top secret...it doesn't appear in the documentation.

 

The PCM list is identical to the new Jupiters'. If you have downloaded the app, you can view them by pressing the wave button on the synth screen until the red light next to PCM illuminates. Then tap the number field next to that to cause it to highlight blue, then press the numbers again. At the bottom of the pop-up list press select or cancel to exit. A tad clunky at first, but once you've done it...

 

Brenner,

 

I'm just scanning this list and realizing that the Jupiter VA has a pretty comprehensive list of waves that goes well beyond what's set up in the default voices that come with the VR-09.. So for example there isn't a "bagpipe" sound in the synth section.. HOWEVER, the VA synth has a bagpipe wave, so can easily create a bagpipe sound using the Jupiter engine and store it as a registration.. AND since you can store unlimited registrations on a USB stick, you really do have access to a lot more soundsthan you might think, including acoustic sounds.

 

I also have to say that this Jupiter Synth and the editor seems pretty well organized and easy to understand.. just select the wave you want as a starting point and the rest is pretty straight forward.. wow I'm really loving this thing..

[Craig MacDonald]

 

And that segues nicely into the other factor: the reason the Nord was in the shop was because of gunk that had accumulated inside due to the environment of the venue (not for the first time either; more like the third or fourth in the year and a half I've had it). It's a Bourbon Street club, and it's a pretty nasty place. Among regular players in that scene, it's common knowledge that the environment shortens the lifespan of gear considerably (and that's even without the factor of having drinks spilled on it, which is way more likely than in most other venues). If I'm gonna continue to put my gear through that, I'd rather do it with a thousand-dollar board I don't care much about, than a $3600 one I'd really like to keep around for a while.

 

FKS, we've discussed this issue before and gotten the "why would you not want to perform with your "A" rig", comments from some folks, but you've explained it perfectly.. for some of us a few inches makes a lot of difference, and do we really want to take a chance on having beer spilled on a $5000 gig rig when a $999 rig will get us through the gig.

 

I agree that having a $999 keyboard damaged is much less tramatic... at the same time I'm really getting attached to this thing..

[voxpops]

I have to say, having recently acquired a Numa, I'm very happy with it, there's just something very satisfying about playing it. The rotary speed control was out of calibration (that's Studiologic for you), but it was an easy mechanical fix that voxpops helped me through. (Thanks again, Vox!)

You're welcome, Scott. I, too am pleased with the Numa. My only real criticism of the sound is the very slightly muffled quality (I think it was Busch who brought this up - mentioning that it sounded like it had a blanket over it). I think if it had mid-EQ available on board, a more forward sound could be dialed in - but that's just my preference. The slightly screwy MIDI implementation is irritating, but not fatal, and the only other on-going mini-issue I have is that my hands sometimes adhere too strongly to the keys during smears/glissandos.

 

Compared to the VR-09's organ, the Numa is smoother (less digital-sounding), and has far better CV and percussion. The rotary on the Numa is definitely more authentic than the default Roland sim, but there is no choice of sim or adjustment available - so on balance the Leslie emulation is pretty much a wash. I found the distortion on the Roland to be pretty much unusable with organ, but on the other hand the Roland's tone control was very useful in changing the character of the organ sound. Of course, these are just my opinions!

 

I do think the VR-09 is great value, and should appeal to a lot of people. However, I remarked to one of the GC reps that I thought it maybe tried to do too much, resulting in too many compromises. It's not a Nord killer by any means, but the much more usable synth section gives it a boost over a number of competitors. One of those competitors is the XW-P1. For the time I owned it, I used it as a controller for VB3 (placed a netbook on that useful rubber pad), and used the onboard synth section in addition to the outboard organ. Like the VR, the XW has (IMO) barely acceptable pianos, a great solo synth (with quite a different character to the VR). Unlike the VR, it has a substandard organ/Leslie. However, at $499 vs $999 it's a tough call.

[Josh Paxton]

So much for all of the nay-sayers who've been dissing the VR-09 for build quality... For the record I think the build quality fit/finish is perfectly fine, and perhaps even better than I might expect for a $999 keyboard.

 

I agree completely. This seems like a perfectly well-built, rugged, gig-worthy instrument, despite the lack of materials like wood and metal that are occasionally fetishized around here. (A hint for the fetishists: Remember the "One word: plastics" line from The Graduate? Turns out that guy really was onto something.)

[AnotherScott]

The rotary on the Numa is definitely more authentic than the default Roland sim, but there is no choice of sim or adjustment available - so on balance the Leslie emulation is pretty much a wash.

Based on that description, I'd have to give it to the Numa. I'd rather have one authentic but unadjustable sim than a sim that, despite a myriad of adjustments, never sounds as authentic as the one. Heck, my real Leslie 122 only had one sound. ;-) (Okay, yes, you could move the belt to get a choice of, I think, 3 rotational speeds.)

 

I found the distortion on the Roland to be pretty much unusable with organ

...

Unlike the VR, [the XW-P1] has a substandard organ/Leslie. However, at $499 vs $999 it's a tough call.

The unusable distortion on the XW was where I felt it most fell down as an organ (at least for a rock player).

 

How would you compare the keybeds of the XW and the VR?

[Craig MacDonald]

Compared to the VR-09's organ, the Numa is smoother (less digital-sounding), and has far better CV and percussion. The rotary on the Numa is definitely more authentic than the default Roland sim, but there is no choice of sim or adjustment available - so on balance the Leslie emulation is pretty much a wash. I found the distortion on the Roland to be pretty much unusable with organ, but on the other hand the Roland's tone control was very useful in changing the character of the organ sound. Of course, these are just my opinions!

 

I do think the VR-09 is great value, and should appeal to a lot of people. However, I remarked to one of the GC reps that I thought it maybe tried to do too much, resulting in too many compromises. It's not a Nord killer by any means, but the much more usable synth section gives it a boost over a number of competitors. One of those competitors is the XW-P1. For the time I owned it, I used it as a controller for VB3 (placed a netbook on that useful rubber pad), and used the onboard synth section in addition to the outboard organ. Like the VR, the XW has (IMO) barely acceptable pianos, a great solo synth (with quite a different character to the VR). Unlike the VR, it has a substandard organ/Leslie. However, at $499 vs $999 it's a tough call.

 

I agree that the Numa is a bit more authentic sounding than the VR-09, but I really like the VR organ, much more than I anticipated I would, but I don't think the VR is digital sounding at all.. The new leslie sim is nice and warm.. However, I'm not a real fan of the distortion either, but it's less the nature of the OD tone and more the fact that I want more sublte OD.. Like many clones the distortion is way too much.. By 12:00 you're into Jon Lord territory, and who would ever want to go beyond that? I think this MAY be an example of your suggestion that the VR-09 is trying to do too much? This extreme overdrive may be prefect for use with the guitar samples, but it's way over the top for organ. I would really like to see Roland provide less Overdrive and more granularity. As it stands the O/D does nothing from 6:00 to 9:00 and then hits Jon Lord OD at 12:00.. it needs to be introduced more smoothly, and MAX OD should be half what it is now.

 

I don't think it's a "Nord Killer" or an "SK1 killer" but the VR-09 is going to cause a lot of people to ask themselves why they're paying almost twice the price for a Nord or Hammond, and this may result in some people choosing a less expensive alternative, and perhaps even some price adjustments on the Nord/Hammond side.

 

I don't agree that the Casio XW-P1 is a real competitor to the VR-09, the drawbar organ, and Rolands Jupiter VA synth + ipad editor?? No way.. no comparison. IF someone chooses a Casio over this VR-09, I think it will almost always be for budgetary reasons only.

[voxpops]

How would you compare the keybeds of the XW and the VR?

Gosh, I parted ways with the XW some time ago, so my memory may not be too accurate. I do remember that I had no problem with the XW's keys for my uses (synth/organ), so it was fine. The VR was raked at a severe angle when I played it yesterday, so I didn't get to play its action from an optimal position, but it felt good - tight, fast and responsive for (again) organ and synth. I was disappointed with the pianos, so I didn't play pianistically very much.

[AnotherScott]

the VR-09 is going to cause a lot of people to ask themselves why they're paying almost twice the price for a Nord or Hammond

Plus the difference in price could get you a PX-5S to boot!

[HammondDave]

do we really want to take a chance on having beer spilled on a $5000 gig rig when a $999 rig will get us through the gig.

 

 

So instead of paying $100 a year for musical equipment insurance to get COMPLETE accidental coverage for a top notch gig rig, you compromise sound and ergonomics so that you don't feel so bad when someone spills a beer into your $999 organ????

 

Does not make much sense to me....