Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Laurence]

Do the registrations as they are saved now include the iPad edits on tones? I suspect they do not, but haven't had a chance to try it yet. I've updated, but haven't experimented with the keyboard since the update.

[Craig MacDonald]

Two things make me think that the "load one registration" feature may allow us to load deep synth data..

 

1. That will be necessary if we are going to be able to download synth sounds from the axial website.

2. The vrsyn001.dat file

 

I'm going to test a few things tomorrow..

[High Diving Act]

Congrats on the release of this update all... finally. Though I no longer own the vr09..im still a fan. Hopefully the Axial site proves fruitful.

[Craig MacDonald]

Do the registrations as they are saved now include the iPad edits on tones? I suspect they do not, but haven't had a chance to try it yet. I've updated, but haven't experimented with the keyboard since the update.

 

Laurence, unfortunately you are correct.. at this time the "load one registration" feature does not load deep synth parameters.. it seems to only load registration level data which does not go beyond the ADSR level. This is very curious since the documentation that comes with the update says that this will allow us to load new registrations from the AXIAL site, but if we can't load deep synth data and get new syntgh sounds, that kind of defeats the purpose of it the AXIAL site (which is all about synth tones).

 

The way the VR-09 seems to work is that every VA Synth program seems to have a secondary buffer where edits can be stored. However, there is only one buffer and any registration that uses that original synth program shares that same buffer. If you make any changes at all to that original synth sound (in that buffer) you affect all programs that share that original synth program. You CAN go back and forth between the original synth program by exiting the registration, and re-entering the registration, in which case you go back and forth between the original sound and the altered sound in the registration.. This tells me that the original programs are in protected rom memory.

 

So there's a bit of a mystery here... saving a registration set on USB seems to create/save a VRSYN001.DAT file as well as a UPG File (which I believe contains registration set info). The fact that a VRSYN file exists suggests to me that VR synth data is being saved (or will be), AND because it's numbered (001) you have to assume that under some circumstance the VR-09 will be able to save multiple VRSYN files. It seems to me that this is functionality that has yet to be enabled.. Maybe there will be some scheme that registration sounds/sets from the AXIAL site will contain a secondary VRSYN file that overwrites the synth buffers as appropriate.

 

Clearly there is still some functionality left to be enabled if we are going to be able to load registrations that contain new synth programs, because right now a registration that you load in will NOT overwrite the synth data that exists in the VR-09.

[Laurence]

Thanks Craig. I was afraid of that because in spite of the wording of the iPad editor function, it really is saving the deep edits at the tone level. While the iPad editor deep editing is very cool and surprisingly good, this limitation hobbles it to the point where It really is of no practical use. Hopefully this will change before the development on this product loses momentum.

 

On the bright side, I believe the distortion and reverb are now capable of subtler wet/dry settings.

 

There is still vibrato/chorus on the percussion and anything layered with the organ is still routed through the Leslie effect. Delay effects other than the triple tap delay are still way too wet.

 

It is a nice update and we are better off than we were, but there's still a long way to go.

 

[Laurence]

It would be a piece of cake for Roland to add the last little bit of code needed so that we could overwrite and rename the factory tones. We can already do that except that you can't rename them or save them to flash memory, and you can only call them up by recalling a registration. The actual tone rewriting architecture is already there though. Add that last little bit of functionality and the VR-09 would become arguably the best budget keyboard out there by miles. They may not have done this already simply because they don't want to compete with their higher end boards at this price point. They will have to do something like this if they are going to make proper use of that tone downloading site.

[AnotherScott]

It would be a piece of cake for Roland to add the last little bit of code needed so that we could overwrite and rename the factory tones.

It's really impossible to know from the outside what would be a piece of cake. It's possible that the things you want to overwrite are stored in ROM and cannot be over-written, and the amount of rewritable memory in the unit to store custom settings is exhausted with what it already does.

[Craig MacDonald]

i have to agree with AnotherScott, who knows how easy it is to add these features... however, I am very suspicious about this vrsyn001.dat file.... i suspect that this either contains or can contain the deep synth data.. I think that this functionality is there and it simply has not been have enabled yet, but I'm just guessing!!

 

I think that Roland has been pretty good with the updates and listening to their customers.. This is a much more capable instrument then when it first came out.. I hope it continues to get even better.. BTW I've been playing the VR-09 through my new Burn effects unit and it sounds really good..

[brenner13]

Roland has just released a new system update Version 1.02 which now includes the ability to load an individual registration from USB.

Here's the link...

http://bit.ly/INU5ZY

 

Thanks for sharing the info and the link, Craig. Great new function, however still rather limited. Surely there will be a follow up vers to expand the registration loading to include the deeper synth settings? I have a great pipe organ, several nice synths, and a bagpipe patch I'd like to share.

[brenner13]

Hi people!

 

A newbie here... I have an old XP-50, and I'm thinking to replace it with the VR-09. Would it be worth in terms of sound quality - tweakability? I don't need nor use the sequencer, just good "bread and butter" sounds for gigging. Your opinions would be helpful to me.

 

Hello and welcome. I've had almost zero experience with XP-50, so have limited advice. However, I replaced my Yamaha EX5 with the VR09 for live gigs because my groups needed more tweakable organ tones. There are several sounds I miss and will probably never quite get exact, but my classic rock cover group has started to focus a little more on the 80's genre and I love the quick programming of the VR09 and have been able to convincingly emulate the synths of that era with little effort. The VR09 compliments a Fantom X7 very well for the gig rig.

[brenner13]

Not that I could find.. There's a program called "andes mood" that is flute-ish, but it's more like a pan flute or something like that.. The N-Flute is a great sounding flute, I just wish it didn't behave so strangely.

 

If you can find a nice sounding flute that doesn't behave this way please let me know!! One thing that was discussed earlier is that the PCM Waves have a couple of flute waves.. maybe that's what you're thinking about..?

 

PCM#'s 279 Flute Wave and 280 Flute Push. Gonna work on this later today.

I personally love the included SuperNatural sounds and really dig the expressive way they play, but I've not tried to emulate Mellotron with them. This "N"Flute is definitely more for solo playing and works fairly well to cover Ian Anderson...er...as close as any synth can. A lot of dissenters out there about D-Beam, but the N-Control options are wonderful.

[WesG]

Has anybody actually found a use for the D-Beam, other than reverb tank crashes?

[Craig MacDonald]

WesG,

 

I use the D-Beam to adjust the filter on the synth sounds.. Here is an example of this youtube video of my classic rock band 11STEPS performing Frankenstein:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEnLkuluik&feature=c4-overview&list=UU6UMvR1StEQeB0USdrJZv2A

 

(please excuse the odd clam here and there..) you can see me use the D-Beam at the 3:30 mark, where I use it to rhythmically adjust the filter.. I haven't tried it on the VR-09 but I would assume that I could use the D-Beam on the VR-09 synth in the same way..

[brenner13]

VR09 sadly has no filter capability with the D-Beam...apparently this was a cost cutting factor to stay within budget. I use the Big Gong sparingly and have tried the Mark Tree, but they are pretty loud with no way to adjust the SFX relative volume. I've set up a decent pedal steel patch and use the Pitch setting on D-Beam but again, sad to report that it is fixed to bend a full-step down...no edit available. As mentioned earlier, N-Control 1&2 for those select sounds are fantastic, but most of the time I have D-Beam controlling Rotary Fst/Slow...as silly as some might think it looks, sometimes it is faster and easier to quickly wave a hand to change speeds than with the slightly small dedicated button, a flip of the pitch bender, or a press on the expression pedal. However I keep triggering the beam when reaching for the Overdrive knob.

[Craig MacDonald]

errr.. apparently i have made a mistake.. That is a very odd omission!! Including the hardware D-Beam and not a little bit of code to enable it to control some basic synth parameters.. I'm going to have to mention this on the Roland Blog..

 

I also do use the D-Beam to control leslie speed sometimes it's just more convenient.. initially I preferred this to the joystick because I would often accidentally turn the leslie sim off , however this has been fixed in the new OS.. with the implementation of the parameter to set disable the leslie on/off using the joystick.

[brenner13]

Agreed...strange omission. Filter sweep is the ONLY D-Beam function I ever use on the Fantom.

BTW, D-Beam SFX go through the effects chain including the rotary...no way to bypass, but I like the Gong all phasey or flanged.

[WesG]

Okay, that was pretty awesome, now I wish the VR-09 could do that!

 

 

[brenner13]

WesG,

 

I use the D-Beam to adjust the filter on the synth sounds.. Here is an example of this youtube video of my classic rock band 11STEPS performing Frankenstein:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEnLkuluik&feature=c4-overview&list=UU6UMvR1StEQeB0USdrJZv2A

 

(please excuse the odd clam here and there..) you can see me use the D-Beam at the 3:30 mark, where I use it to rhythmically adjust the filter.. I haven't tried it on the VR-09 but I would assume that I could use the D-Beam on the VR-09 synth in the same way..

 

Fantastic! Well played, sir.

[Craig MacDonald]

Thanks..!!! BTW that's my Roland GAIA that I am playing on that video..

[brenner13]

Okay, I'm running out of presets to override...the thing won't let you edit PCM's on most of the piano section presets, and there are only a few clunkers in the synth section that I want to write over however even some of those seem to be hard wired samples and cannot be edited. I'll probably never use most of those SFX sounds but they are so fun just to jack around with. Ended up wasting most of my programming time dinking around with all the neato tones. Finally found one I can live without under the Bass button called Carmelcorn. There is no "initialize patch" option, so have to manually go into each of the 3 parts and set everything to zero on the iPad. This patch is strange in that there seems to be some kind of pitch LFO randomizer going on deeper in this preset than the iPad editor will allow access to, so my non-"N"Flute attempt sounds like a very sick Chamberlin that has stretched tapes warbling about and the motor running a 1/3rd too fast.

 

Unfortunately, I'm booked solid the rest of the week and gig on Saturday, so no chance until next Sunday to try this on another preset to see if that pitch mod is on the preset or part of the flute PCM...that is if I can find another preset I want to overwrite!

[Kevmo]

I may be joining a led zep trib band so am very interested in ur mellotrons

[To B3]

So... finally, after an almost endless search and a number of come and go's, I'm a proud new VR-09 owner.

 

Could not play it for too long other than in the store and very briefly in my house, as me and my wife are in process of moving to a better place too and things are like crazy in between the boxes and bubble wrapers.

 

But I have to say that I loved most of that little board so far. With some minimum menu diving and knob twisting, I came with some aged B3 sounds with lots of leakage and clicks, the way I like, with some interesting compressed pianos 70's style (from Let It Be to Freddie King, to Elton John albums, everything was there with some knob twisting, at least good enough for a band mix). And I even liked the wurlitzer sound, that seems sampled from the little 200A speaker, a sound I appreciate very much. You can do many things with the tone, compressor and the effects. The interface is comparable to my beloved Nord Electro, and the VR09, which I initially thought would be a backup or complimentary board, proved itself to be even more valuable. The construction, feel of the keys and playability were satisfatory too.

 

The clavs sounded good and very tweakable too. Missed the pedal wah option tho. Guess I'm gonna have to use my real wah with it.

 

Did not mess with synths yet, as I dont use them much.

 

The downs: the "no effects on the left hand of a split" thing annoyed me... Really wish that Roland could fix this some way... And could not pull a rhodes on my taste.

 

If you guys can point me to where the tweaks were discussed(all of them, B3, pianos, fake mellotrons, etc), I would be immensely grateful.Searched and did not find it.

 

Another thing, did not install the new OS yet. Had a little doubt reading the insructions on the Roland site. On that part:

 

"Leaving the power to the VR-09 switched off; connect the USB Memory to the "USB MEMORY port".

Hold down the ROTARY SOUND [ON/OFF] and ROTARY SOUND [FAST/SLOW] button and turn on VR-09.

The update process starts with displaying on the screen the repeatedly as follows.

"Updating..."

* The indicator of the ROTARY SOUND [ON/OFF] button will be blinking slowly on updating."

 

Do I need to keep pressing the rotary buttons through the entire process or I leave it when the "updating" message appears? Sorry for the dumb question, but I never updated a keyboard OS before and do not want to screw up this

 

So far, so f**kin good!

[Ken Beaumont]

Yes as soon as updating appears you can safely stop holding the buttons. I have updated mine 2x without issue.

[To B3]

Thanks, gonna try soon!

[Craig MacDonald]

ToB3, Congrats...!

 

YES the lack of effects on the lower split is a bummer.. there are a number of things that I would like Roland to fix.. they've been pretty good, fixing a number of the "show-stoppers" so I can't complain too much.

 

Tweaks.. I change my organ settings a lot depending on whether I'm listening to the VR-09 through my studio monitors, or my K10's and whether I'm using a Ventilator of my Burn These days I just bump up the compression a bit, and I sweep the tone control from fully counter-clockwise to fully clockwise to see what sounds the best with outboard gear.

 

Mellotron-ish sounds are pretty easy.. up the compression a bit (again), and add some overdrive for that raw tape sound, and then adjust the tone control to your liking (for me that's almost fully clockwise).. Same for the mellotron choirs, start with the choir program. Flutes are a problem because Roland chose to put the supernatural flute in the VR-09 rather than just the basic flute.

 

I'm sure you're going to enjoy the VR-09 and you'll find ways to work around most of the issues.

[To B3]

What about those High Gain/Low Gain settings for organ, any particular setting that you like?

 

And tweaks or tricks for Wurly/Rhodes/Clav?

[Craig MacDonald]

What about those High Gain/Low Gain settings for organ, any particular setting that you like?

 

And tweaks or tricks for Wurly/Rhodes/Clav?

 

To B3,

 

I use completely different settings when listening to the VR through my studio monitors, vs through my K10's vs using the Ventilator or the Burn. However, the process I follow to get a sound I like is basically the same whatever speakers/amp I use.. it's as follows:

 

First choose the leslie sim that you like.. type 1 vs Type to is really like a horn rotor balance.. type 1 is very bright and type 2 is very mellow, so all of the tweaking starts with choosing the leslie sim.. THEN you move to tweaking tone colour, then upper/lower gain and other parameters.

 

Set all the parameters kind of flat (not too much noise or keyclick) and set the upper/lower gain to 0 and then bump compression to about 12:00 o'clock, then edit rotary parameters and listen to the two leslie sims.. try adjusting the tone control from bottom to top with both type 1 and 2 and choose a basic leslie type and tone colour that you want to use as your starting point. Pick the basic setting/tone that sounds best to you through your outboard gear and THEN go tweaking in the menu.. set your leakage and keyclick as you like it and then set your your high/low gain.

 

HOWEVER, once that's done, you need to sweep the tone control from bottom to top again, to re-establish the sweet spot, again, because all of the tweaking you do in the menu has an effect on the tone colour. It's kind of a "rinse and repeat" process.. especially the relationship between tone control, high/low gain, and overdrive.. Overdrive also affects the tone colour so as you change the OD so you may want to go back and adjust the tone or the gain settings. You really have to repeat this process a couple of times until you've got a sound you're satisfied with.. (on my VR-09 I use the type 2 leslie which is mellower so my lower gain is 0 and my upper gain is 3 this seems to give me the right tone for my classic rock stuff). Once you've got it, save it as a registration!! Like anything you'll probably continue to tweak next time you sit down at the keyboard as you listen to it with fresh ears! BTW the more you do this the more you'll understand the nature of the tone control, gain and overdrive. Watch the overdrive it's really sensitive.. I typically have it set so it's barely noticeable..

 

On the clavinet increasing the compression seems to give you more of the subtle click/pick on the clavinet sounds which I really like. So, like the organ, when I select a clav first thing I do is bump up the compression so I get more click. With the organ, compression seems to even out the volume of a single note vs a chord in the way that is similar to how a real Hammond does, whereas on the clavinet sounds you get more picking sound.

 

Good luck hope this helps.

[To B3]

Thanks, helped! What about the pianos, anyway to aproximate the wurlitzers more to Faces/Ray Charles territory and the Rhodes to a darker Herbie tone? Any tweaks on the AC pianos to make it more Beatlesque or Freddie King records/Derek and The Dominos like? Compression to the bone?? I liked to use a little spring reverb on them (on everything, actually)

[Craig MacDonald]

To B3, hopefully someone else will pipe in here and provide some suggestions on the AC/EP tones.. I have things set the way I like them for classic rock stuff.. you're obviously looking for a very specific sound, and I'm not sure that my sounds would suit you, but I find that compression always seems to help the a bit ;-)

 

If no one has any suggestions, maybe you can experiment and let US know what you find that works for you!

[To B3]

Not so specific on reality. But if you can share your settings for classic rock in general or specific songs (a style that I too play), I'm sure that they can serve as starting points, at least.