A warning to tribute bands...

[Griffinator]

You do need more excellent musicians to cover a variety of bands.

 

Or at least do it effectively.

[HammondDave]

I was in an excellent cover band when I moved to Los Angeles 15 years ago. We were the "House Band" for Arrow 93, the local classic rock radio station here in L.A. at the time. We had five members and covered just about everything... note for note.

 

Of course, being the keyboard player, I had to cover a lot of horn parts. It always sucked. We avoided these songs when we played high profile gigs (we would open for many of the classic rock superstars at Arrow concerts).

 

We would have been so much better with real horn players, or just not play songs with horns in them.

 

We were blessed with a singer who could cover, and sound like just about any rock singer, from Jim Morrison to Ian Gillan.

 

So I wonder if it is more challenging to play in a good cover band than in a tribute band... Again, I would never know as I never played in a band that concentrated exclusively on one band.

[PinkFloydDudi]

It depends on the cover band.

 

I agree completely, though when one assembles a "tribute" band, one tends to ensure that all the correct pieces are in place to execute everything that particular band has published, which makes for a more tailored sound than, say, a five-piece male-fronted band (guit, bass, keys, vox, drums) trying to execute something that was written for a female vocalist, or a song that requires extensive backing vocals when only one or two members of the band are capable of vocals, or any number of other "not quite the right fit" scenarios.

 

I would take it a step farther and say that "vocals" are the main difference. You can have a killer band play "Dont Stop Believing" note for note with the CD, but if you didn't pick your singer specifically as a Journey singer, he likely isn't going to be as spot on.

 

The more songs you cover with distinct vocals, the more this would be true. Geddy Lee, Robert Plant, Steve Perry...or in my case, Dave Matthews - it would be very difficult to find a singer that can pull off those tunes and vocally sound similar to each of those guys.

 

Not saying it is impossible...but...

 

=)

[PinkFloydDudi]

I was in an excellent cover band when I moved to Los Angeles 15 years ago. We were the "House Band" for Arrow 93, the local classic rock radio station here in L.A. at the time. We had five members and covered just about everything... note for note.

 

Of course, being the keyboard player, I had to cover a lot of horn parts. It always sucked. We avoided these songs when we played high profile gigs (we would open for many of the classic rock superstars at Arrow concerts).

 

We would have been so much better with real horn players, or just not play songs with horns in them.

 

We were blessed with a singer who could cover, and sound like just about any rock singer, from Jim Morrison to Ian Gillan.

 

So I wonder if it is more challenging to play in a good cover band than in a tribute band... Again, I would never know as I never played in a band that concentrated exclusively on one band.

 

Thing is, for us keyboard players, it is all just notes on a page. We click a button to change our sound so that our keyboard went from sounding like Wakeman to Richard Wright... not quite as easy for the singer.

 

I'm not sure, from a keyboard players standpoint, which would be harder to perform in. I guess cover band because you would have to program sounds that cover a much wider range? Aside from that though, it would completely rely on what songs are being cover/tribute to.

 

I would think playing in a YES tribute band would be a lot harder than a band that covers Styx/REO/Journey? lol.

[HammondDave]

Oh, I have the utmost respect for great signers... I work in opera.. I know how delicate that instrument is.

 

What is amazing is that there are a few singers who really have the ability to sound like almost anyone. Billy Joel used to do singing impersonations early in his career, and he nailed them!

[bluesdisciple]

I saw an Allman Brothers tribute band last weekend. All but one of the songs were off of the Brothers first five albums. The instrumental parts and jamming was spot on and great. Keyboard player had some great chops...though i sensed he was more of a piano player playing organ parts than an organist at heart.

 

Their shortcoming though was the vocals. Neither singer sounded the least bit like either Gregg Allman or Dickey Betts. Not close with regard to sound or tone, but didn't even attempt to match vocal phrasing or delivery of the original singing. And for me, who is an ABB nut, it took a lot away from the show. Made them sound like a cover band playing all songs from one band than a true and real TRIBUTE band. Also made me feel like love of money over love of the ABB was the real motivation behind this band.

 

BD

[HammondDave]

I saw an Allman Brothers tribute band last weekend. All but one of the songs were off of the Brothers first five albums. The instrumental parts and jamming was spot on and great. Keyboard player had some great chops...though i sensed he was more of a piano player playing organ parts than an organist at heart.

 

Their shortcoming though was the vocals. Neither singer sounded the least bit like either Gregg Allman or Dickey Betts. Not close with regard to sound or tone, but didn't even attempt to match vocal phrasing or delivery of the original singing. And for me, who is an ABB nut, it took a lot away from the show. Made them sound like a cover band playing all songs from one band than a true and real TRIBUTE band. Also made me feel like love of money over love of the ABB was the real motivation behind this band.

 

BD

 

My first band was a cover band but we played every Allman Brothers song from their first two albums. We had two guitar players with gold Les Pauls... but only one drummer. I loved playing that music.

 

You are right... if the vocalist does not even copy the phrasing, you might as well forget it. Gregg is a great blues singer.

[Jazzmammal]

You don't need anyone's permission to perform their songs or have to pay them anything.

 

Wrong. I'm not going to get into it here, it's all over the web and easy to find. We all do it and I will continue to do it but it's not legal. You can not do anything with someone's copywritten material whether you're playing for free or not other than play it in your own home unless it's a legal venue where they're paying the fees. Period. This is not US law, it's international. There's plenty of cases where bands were shut down playing a free concert at a park, a private house party (not their house) and other situations. Luckily for us it doesn't happen very often.

 

I've posted this in various forums over the years and there's always people who say what, no way, I can do this or that, blah, blah, etc.

 

Look it up.

 

Bob

[HammondDave]

You don't need anyone's permission to perform their songs or have to pay them anything.

 

Wrong. I'm not going to get into it here, it's all over the web and easy to find. We all do it and I will continue to do it but it's not legal. You can not do anything with someone's copywritten material whether you're playing for free or not other than play it in your own home unless it's a legal venue where they're paying the fees. Period. This is not US law, it's international. There's plenty of cases where bands were shut down playing a free concert at a park, a private house party (not their house) and other situations. Luckily for us it doesn't happen very often.

 

I've posted this in various forums over the years and there's always people who say what, no way, I can do this or that, blah, blah, etc.

 

Look it up.

 

Bob

 

You are absolutely correct, sir... It's like filming your own version of Star Wars and calling it "Star Wars"... It's intellectual property and protected.

 

But as my entertainment law versed wife tells me, there are some "fair use" exceptions...

[Joe Muscara]

You guys are almost making it sound like you can't play other people's songs without their permission. You can, of course, but someone has to pay for it. That's why many venues have ASCAP/BMI/SESAC stickers on the door, and why other venues say they only want bands that play originals, because they've had a dispute with the PROs and don't want to deal with them. However, even when you play your originals, the PROs are supposed to be distributing the money.

 

At least, that's what copyright law defaults to.

 

(What Bob/Jazzmammal says is right, but I wanted to make it clear that generally you can cover a tune so long as the fees are paid.)

 

Hammonddave, your example of Star Wars is an interesting one. From what I understand of copyright laws (and I am NOT an attorney so FWIW), you could make your own version of a film so long as you pay the fees. But, it seems like people don't or can't, so what's different? Are the fees only set for songs, but not for movies? If that's the case, maybe Lucasfilm sets the fee, and makes it unrealistic.

[Ken Beaumont]

Trademark infringement, Star Wars is a registered trade mark.

[Joe Muscara]

Ah, good point, but that's a different animal than copyright.

[HammondDave]

Yeah... I wonder what the fee would be to remake Star Wars...LOL

 

But seriously, thanks for the information regarding the ASCAP fees. But I must admit I have never seen these stickers on any of the clubs I have played. Although I am sure they are there.

[HammondDave]

Trademark infringement, Star Wars is a registered trade mark.

 

Which takes us back to the OP... Meat Loaf won because he must have trademarked "Meat Loaf"... Therefore, the impersonator was not allowed to use the name in the web address.

[FatMarathoner]

From what I understand of copyright laws (and I am NOT an attorney so FWIW), you could make your own version of a film so long as you pay the fees. But, it seems like people don't or can't, so what's different? Are the fees only set for songs, but not for movies? If that's the case, maybe Lucasfilm sets the fee, and makes it unrealistic.

 

If you were somehow able to make a substantially similar enough film to Star Wars (and who of us could, even given the strides home computing and other technologies have made since 1978?), you would surely be sued by LucasFilms for copyright infringement and have to cough up some bread in lots of forms, e.g., lawyers' fees, statutory fines, etc. That is, unless (i) you fell into one of the "fair use" exceptions that Dave alludes to, like a parody (Spaceballs, anyone?); or (ii) you got a license from LucasFilms to make your version of Star Wars. Copyright applies to films as well as songs, but the songs are easier to copy, particularly to satisfy the similarity tests, which is why were all a lot more familiar with copyright infringement suits of one stripe or another regarding those.

 

The Star Wars brand (name, etc.) is a trademark, but the film itself- and related books and other works of art- are themselves copyrighted. [To say nothing of the countless other intellectual property spawned by the Star Wars enterprise, like patents for the toys, costumes, filming techniques, computer generated modeling, etc.]

 

[Ken Beaumont]

So are all the character names and ships, anything that has an action figure you can bet is trademarked. So while you can create an obvious parody, if you use trademarked names you run the risk of getting sued.

 

So 'Spaceballs' isn't infringing on the trademark.

 

People have created parodies of popular songs for years. I have always wondered if the precedent hadn't been set decades ago, if it would be allowed if the first parody was created in today's legal system.

[Cygnus64]

Film, plays, recording and performing all have entirely different rules. Films need "permission", unless it's a parody etc. Seth MacFarlane said that Lucas liked Family Guy and gave permission to do the FG version. Carol Burnett sued Family Guy for using her mop sketch and she lost. It was parody.

 

There are strange exceptions in every field: Tomita did "The Planets" and the family of Holst had it pulled from stores because they didn't like it (it was later put back). There are a few others like that. Copland didn't mind that ELP did his fanfare, but he said he "didn't get it". Ginastera loved the ELP Toccata, he thought it was better than his own.

 

In plays and musicals, the non PD ones have to be performed "as is" unless one has other permission. I was playing at a small theatre and this obscure musical had some swearing (and some complaints). They weren't allowed to alter it. :idk

[Joe Muscara]

Star Wars and its trademarks are a bad example.

 

But what's to keep me from making a "cover" of an old film just like I would make a cover of an old song?

[Aidan]

I believe Copland perhaps didn't "get" Fanfare because Emerson, fearing the old man would think they'd taken too many liberties with his piece, initially only sent/played him the single edit with none of the improvised section. Copland didn't see the point of that compared with the way Emerson had developed Hoedown. However, when played the full version, he was at least happy for it to be put out.

[therealvicz]

You don't need anyone's permission to perform their songs or have to pay them anything.

 

Wrong. I'm not going to get into it here, it's all over the web and easy to find. We all do it and I will continue to do it but it's not legal. You can not do anything with someone's copywritten material whether you're playing for free or not other than play it in your own home unless it's a legal venue where they're paying the fees. Period. This is not US law, it's international. There's plenty of cases where bands were shut down playing a free concert at a park, a private house party (not their house) and other situations. Luckily for us it doesn't happen very often.

 

I've posted this in various forums over the years and there's always people who say what, no way, I can do this or that, blah, blah, etc.

 

Look it up.

 

Bob

 

You have misunderstood or misrepresented what I said. Any public performance needs to be licensed and royalties are collected by the national PRS / PRO. Non- public performances do not need to be licensed. Disagreements arise over what is public.

 

If you play in a licensed venue you do not have to ask Mr Loaf's permission to sing his song but maybe you are on dodgy ground if you want to prance around with a white hanky and sweat a lot while doing so.

[Ken Beaumont]

Licensing agreements, movie remakes of old films like Planet of the Apes happen all the time. They are essentially covers, each one has licensing listed in the credits. If you can get the original license holder to agree to your terms it could even be free.

 

Movies are extremely expensive to produce so most cases are gonna cost a share of the box office proceeds.

[Michael Wright]

If you play in a licensed venue you do not have to ask Mr Loaf's permission to sing his song but maybe you are on dodgy ground if you want to prance around with a white hanky and sweat a lot while doing so.

Sh*t that's funny! "Mr Loaf".........killer!

[ProfD]

If musician(s) are not interested in writing, composing and performing original music, there are more than enough songs in the public domain to fill several sets. No license required.

 

The lyrics might be a little corny since most public domain songs were published in 1922 or earlier.

[Cygnus64]

If musician(s) are not interested in writing, composing and performing original music, there are more than enough songs in the public domain to fill several sets. No license required.

 

The lyrics might be a little corny since most public domain songs were published in 1922 or earlier.

 

Well, the lyrics won't be as nuanced and profound as todays trained musicians, who also have great literary skills.

 

And I was like...

 

Baby, baby, baby oooh

Like baby, baby, baby nooo

Like baby, baby, baby oooh

I thought you'd always be mine (mine)

 

Baby, baby, baby oooh

Like baby, baby, baby nooo

Like baby, baby, baby oooh

 

 

[FatMarathoner]

And even those tunes wouldn't be available if Sonny Bono were still alive (and in congress):

 

Sonny's Legacy (besides being married to Gregg Allman's ex)

[J. Dan]

[video:youtube]

[Ekewaka]

And even those tunes wouldn't be available if Sonny Bono were still alive (and in congress):

 

Sonny's Legacy (besides being married to Gregg Allman's ex)

 

Disney Inc has also played a big role with the copyright extensions, they have always been afraid that Mickey Mouse et rest would become public domain and they would lose the rights for merchandise, films and so on...