mcgoo Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Someone just donated a Roland U-20 to our church. Cosmetically it looks new, but there are 4 keys that don't work, right in the middle of the keyboard (just above middle C). The F# & G# only trigger a full on velocity of 127, the G is totally dead & the A only triggers when struck hard. The keys don't physically feel or appear broken. I'm pretty sure if I send it to a tech, the repair bill would be more than the keyboard is worth. If it's as simple as swapping out some broken keys, I can buy the keys fairly inexpensively & perhaps have the board repaired for under $50.00 in parts. So my question is, with the problems I've described, is it likely to be broken keys that need to be replaced, and if so, are they fairly easily swapped out by a NON electrically competent schmuck like me? I haven't tried reinitializing the unit yet, but I'm skeptical that the problem could be a software issue... but perhaps it's worth a try. I don't want to put too much time or expense into the board... it's not exactly a game changer , but the price was right. Thanks for any advice / tips. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 It could be the rubber membrane that sits above the contacts. I had a D-70 that had problems and I got some new membrane and all was good. Open her up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Dirt. It's dirt on the contacts. There is a good chance that you can clean the contacts yourself. Tom "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 It could be the rubber membrane that sits above the contacts. I had a D-70 that had problems and I got some new membrane and all was good. Open her up! Yeah I had the same problem on a close vintage JV80. On that unit it was pretty simple to get to the rubber membranes (which just pull off the contact board). None of the membranes were ruptured so I just swabbed the contacts with alcohol and Q Tips and it solved the mistriggering problem. If you discover broken or worn through membranes I don't know how how easy (or difficult) it is to get replacements anymore. I haven't dealt with Roland Parts in years but they used to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hopefully it's just a wash job, I know I got replacement membrane a couple of years ago from Roland UK for the D-70, so there's a good chance its there if you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgatron Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Dirt. It's dirt on the contacts. There is a good chance that you can clean the contacts yourself. Tom I did this job on a Roland Alpha Juno 2 I picked up for cheap off craigslist last year. open it up and remove the keybed. then remove the keys and lift up the contact strips and clean them with rubbing alcohol and q-tips. then sell it. someone will be along any minute now to say something about the kind of alcohol, but you should ignore them, because you're going to sell the damn thing as soon as it works, and then it's someone else's problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Thanks for the tips all. I'll open it up & see if I can make it work. someone will be along any minute now to say something about the kind of alcohol, but you should ignore them, because you're going to sell the damn thing as soon as it works, and then it's someone else's problem Well, since it was donated to the church by an active member, who loves our music ministry & wants to do something to contribute, fixing it & selling it might be a bit of a slap in the face. If I can't use it, I'll return it, but if I can put it to use I will. So with that in mind, if there's a good & bad alcohol for this purpose then let me know! Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Since what is on the contacts is probably soda (or pop since you are in Indiana ) or coffee you probably will be just as well off to take all the rubber contact strips out and wash them with a little dish soap. If they are hard to get out using something like Formula 409 would probably work well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 So with that in mind, if there's a good & bad alcohol for this purpose then let me know! With these contacts, you have to be careful not to rub too hard. There is a fine carbon coating that is electrically conductive. You don't want to rub that off the rubber membrane. The dishwashing soap may not be a bad idea, if you use a very small amount and rinse it well. The bigger point here is that you don't want to handle this membrane more than you have to. Regarding alcohol, when I was 16, I worked in a drugstore. I learned that denatured alcohol is what you want for many of these projects. It has very little water and no perfume oils or color additives. OTOH, alcohol could dry out the rubber membrane. I would remove it, and blow out the dirt with a can of air. Then I would inspect the membrane. If a Coke (soda or pop) has spilled on the contacts, it's going to be a delicate job to clean the contacts. Take your time, Mr. McGoo. I also learned that there are folks out there who buy lots of laxatives. Yeah. Lots and lots of laxatives. Tom "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJR Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 About every eight months, keys would start cutting out on my old U-20. It became a regular thing to clean the contact strips 1-2 times a year. I would just use water with a small amount of mild dish soap. Then, gently blow off water with a can of compressed air. I know 2 other owners that had the same problem with those keyboards! Not sure what it was about that design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgatron Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well, since it was donated to the church by an active member, who loves our music ministry & wants to do something to contribute, fixing it & selling it might be a bit of a slap in the face. church basements all over the land are full of old organs & keyboards donated by well-meaning parishioners. the only time most people see any keys is at church, so they think they're being helpful, but really they're just dumping the problem ( in this case what seems to be a simple case of dirty key contacts ) in someone else's lap. so go ahead and sell it after you repair it, and put the money towards an instrument that's actually needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 I also learned that there are folks out there who buy lots of laxatives. Yeah. Lots and lots of laxatives. Wow. That's really good to know. I think. I'm sure I'll need that info at some point in my life. Maybe if I start needing them I can find a forum to find out where the best deals / quantity discounts are. And at that point, I'll thank my good friend Tom for the tip. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I also learned that there are folks out there who buy lots of laxatives. Yeah. Lots and lots of laxatives. Wow. That's really good to know. I think. I'm sure I'll need that info at some point in my life. Maybe if I start needing them I can find a forum to find out where the best deals / quantity discounts are. And at that point, I'll thank my good friend Tom for the tip. What you really don't want to know is how many of those people also buy gerbils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 What you really don't want to know is how many of those people also buy gerbils. We didn't sell gerbils. "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 What you really don't want to know is how many of those people also buy gerbils. We didn't sell gerbils. You might not have but there was probably a pet store near by that did. Besides, one never buys their laxatives and gerbils in the same place because you know how people talk. With purchase tracking that is available today somebody somewhere could compile that data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 With purchase tracking that is available today somebody somewhere could compile that data. Mr. JMcS, It was 1971. We had to turn a crank on the side of the cash register to complete the transaction. What were you saying about purchase tracking? "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Today there is purchase tracking combining many locations and companies pay for the data. Back then it was just gossip and done solely for entertainment value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluMunk Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 open it up and remove the keybed. then remove the keys and lift up the contact strips and clean them with rubbing alcohol and q-tips. then sell it. someone will be along any minute now to say something about the kind of alcohol, but you should ignore them, because you're going to sell the damn thing as soon as it works, and then it's someone else's problem Wait, so are you saying that rubbing alcohol is bad for the keyboard/contacts? And frankly, it's pretty crappy to do something that will hurt the instrument and then sell it to make it "somebody else's problem." Not advice that I would expect to see on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgatron Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Wait, so are you saying that rubbing alcohol is bad for the keyboard/contacts? no, what I'm saying is some dimwit was bound to come along and say something about it, even though I've cleaned plenty of things with rubbing alcohol and never had a problem. but as soon as I recommend it, somebody who once read an article about cleaning electrical contacts that recommended denatured alcohol will come along and snivel about it. the reason I said get rid of it is because it's a crappy old keyboard, so crappy in fact, that the owner was willing to give it away rather than repair it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluMunk Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Gotcha. Sorry if I came off snippy, it was my misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 no, what I'm saying is some dimwit was bound to come along and say something about it, even though I've cleaned plenty of things with rubbing alcohol and never had a problem. but as soon as I recommend it, somebody who once read an article about cleaning electrical contacts that recommended denatured alcohol will come along and snivel about it. I don't know where this hostility is coming from, Mr. Yorgatron. However, I am certain that you are not implying I am a snivelling dimwit because I posted the description of denatured alcohol. Please clarify your statement. Tom "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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