Singers and transposing

[JeffLearman]

1/2 step transposition is by far the hardest for me. The easiest are a 4th or 5th away. Go figure.

That's because 1/2 step can be *completely* different, where 4ths or 5ths can be somewhat similar. F isn't much different than C, neither is G. Bb and Eb aren't unlike. etc.

Yeah, it's easy to figure. I think it's partly because I do something right (I tend to think in functional terms rather than chords) and partly because of something wrong (I'm using a lot of muscle memory).

 

That said, I can see the similarity between F and F#, one is all white and the other is sort of the inverse, all black. Or so.

yeah, no. I can't do the reverse-video thing on the fly!

If you get the 1 right then everything else can be a passing tone.

yeah ... or passing gas ...

[Bobadohshe]

I just played 'Come Together' in Em last night on a cover gig I was subbing on. Sounds and feels DIFFERENT. Mostly when it went 'C# B A' on the 'Come Together' part.

[Eric Iverson]

I'm a guitarist who only uses capos as a last resort; when playing jazz it's the Mickey Baker chords anyway (voicings with few if any open strings). But we're talking about SINGERS and they can be a royal pain, as we all know.... and a great joy. I prefer the latter, LOL!

Luckily in most of my bands, the singer were able to stick to the key we learned the tune in most of the time! Or would agree to move it up or down 1/2 tone if need be... few of them have perfect pitch anyway!

However, one of my former bandmates, Deanna, really loved the key of B for some reason, so we did a few tunes in that key..... Why not? She tore them up; why mess with a good thing??

[CEB]

Certain keys just seem to have their own individual character, emotion and feeling. Like B minor. There is a lot of heavy duty stuff that was done in B minor. Chopin's Funeral March, Bach's Mass in B minor, The Fugue from the Well Tempered Claiver in book II.

 

B minor is some serious ****.

[JeffLearman]

I've played with some singers I'd like to have strapped a capo onto. Nice and tight around the neck. "There ya go, now hit those high notes!"

[JeffLearman]

B minor is some serious ****.

That's spelled "schmidt".

[Jazzwee]

I had an unusual experience with accompanying a singer who had some sort of perfect pitch. We discussed the keys off piano. I would say a key and she would sing the tune aloud in that key and then say "Yeah -- that works".

 

I was amazed. In most cases, the musical knowledge of a singer is non-existent.

 

[solpincus]

I would usually find their 'right' key . But if they got overly critical & obnoxious about how it was played (despite the fact that they had not a clue what they wanted, despite all the different styles i would offer them ) & if they got insulting AT ALL ? I would coldly find a way to comply with them AT THE REHEARSEL ! By the time the gig came up, I would already have learned all the insides of the tune,the dynamics & especially the dramatic HIGH notes .At the gig, I would then alter the chord beneath their " SELL IT, BABY ! HIGH note with : a raised tension interval exactly one half step above their high note making THEM sound FLAT .

With singers who were earnest, & HUMBLE ( not insulting or demeaning) I would go all out for them, trying to make them sound as good as i could . If they were cocky, yet easy to work with ? I would go all out for them . Many of the singers i worked with were temperamental : but nearly as temperamental as i was ( and AM !)

[mauriziodececco]

I am just a jazz piano student, and i do not have perfect pitch AFAIK, but when i tried to touch the transpose button of my good old RD300SX piano to play with a singer, i was completely lost, and i could simply not make a solo; my brain/hand connection was completely broken, what i was playing did not corresponded to my hands movement and i stopped. Now i rewrite my charts :->, even if my teacher push for memorizing all the songs ...

 

Maurizio

 

PS: i haven't said "a young jazz piano student" :->

[jeff7b9]

I knew 100% that this was going to be about a female singer....

 

Why must the girls ALWAYS change keys?

 

It seems to me that a female is about 700% more likely to change keys than a guy, maybe more.... for the life of me I can't think of a good reason why.

[CEB]

It is a long held idea that is a woman perogative to change her mind.

[JeffLearman]

It is a long held idea that is a woman perogative to change her mind.

I find they're pretty good at changing my mind, too.

[David Loving]

Welcome to the forum, 7 posts in. The transpose button invites disaster and impedes good musicianship. Nobody has mentioned this, but, say you don't want to play in B. Play in C, or Bb and sell them that key. Just try it without telling them what key it is and positively sell it to them. I try to "make" them navigate a GASB tune in its 'real' key first. I agree with CEB about character of keys. Most singers don't know a key from a lock. It amuses me when our vocalist asks what key a song is in.

[Jazzwee]

A pianist and singer are rehearsing "Autumn Leaves" for a concert and the pianist says:

 

"OK. We will start in G minor and then on the third bar, modulate to B major and go into

 

5/4. When you get to the bridge, modulate back down to F# minor and alternate a 4/4 bar

 

with a 7/4 bar. On the last A section go into double time and slowly modulate back to G

 

minor."

 

The singer says: "Wow, I don't think I can remember all of that."

 

The pianist says: "Well, that's what you did LAST TIME!!!!."

 

[Bobadohshe]

It seems to me that a female is about 700% more likely to change keys than a guy, maybe more.... for the life of me I can't think of a good reason why.

 

Because a lot of the Real Book keys are the keys that the crooner guys sang them in.

[Brettymike]

Just save yourself a whole lot of time and trouble ,and keep playing them in their original keys you already know on the keyboard ,and transpose them in the keyboard programming setups.

 

Sure , in the end you would probably be a better musician/keyboardist -- but I BET your money wouldn't increase.

No one would give a rats.

 

Brett.

[Bridog6996]

I've found the the better musician you are, the more gig calls you get, and therefore you make more money, so....

[jeff7b9]

It seems to me that a female is about 700% more likely to change keys than a guy, maybe more.... for the life of me I can't think of a good reason why.

 

Because a lot of the Real Book keys are the keys that the crooner guys sang them in.

 

except that it also applies to gospel, motown, RnB, top 40 etc....

 

Guys will just suck it up and sing it in the key it was recorded in.

 

Women will make everyone else change to suit them.

 

 

- How do you know there is a female singer at your door?

 

- She can't find the key and doesn't know when to come in.

 

 

[frogmonkey]

 

Guys will just suck it up and sing it in the key it was recorded in.

 

Women will make everyone else change to suit them.

 

 

- How do you know there is a female singer at your door?

 

- She can't find the key and doesn't know when to come in.

 

 

In my experience, professional singers expect professional musicianship from the band, regardless of gender. Amateur singers are more likely to sing out of their range.

 

You can't expect a singer to sound good outside of their range, any more than you can expect a tenor sax or a trumpet to play out of its range.

 

There is definitely an exception when the band has a horn section with charts. Then the singer might have to suck it up. Otherwise...

 

Play in the singer's key. It will sound better.