Iconoclast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Anyone recommend a volume pedal that plays well with the XK-3C and is on the cheap side. I have a Yamaha FC7 ($39!) that kind of works with it but the sweep never seems to match up to exactly 0-127. I'm trying to use Mainstage with it and the problem is magnified since it rarely sends the proper value to mainstage. Is this just a Hammond thing? Or will a better (more expensive) pedal fix this issue? The Hammond Pedals seem kind of gouge-y on price. You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The XK-3c has an Expression Gain adjustment (pg. 62 #15) to correct for pedals that do what yours is doing. The Hammond pedal uses a light source and light sensor with a V shaped filter between them to make sure the data stays smooth and dirty/worn pots don't become an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Also, make sure you have the Expression Curve (Pg. 62 #16) set to 2 (a straight line) since the data is being used by something else. The curves send more or less data in a given amount of pedal travel. Your software may have trouble if the data is coming at it too fast. If the arc of travel of the FC-7 is smaller than the Hammond's, the data is already being compressed into a shorter distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Thanks for the response. I have been using both the parameters you described and I guess it's just not quite precise enough for me. Seems like I'm either hitting the max way too early or I can't get the pedal to shut the volume to zero when I need it. I can probably make the FC7 work but I was hoping there was a different pedal that was more plug/play/precise without being pricy. When you reference the Hammond pedal, to which pedal are you referring? You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 A real hammond doesn't actually go all the way to 0 with drawbars out A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 I could definitely chalk it up to precise digital replication of analog imperfection. I was just hoping that since my cheapo FC7 plugs into my S90 and runs perfectly from 0-127 every time with no calibration that there might be some other sub $140 solution that provides OCD people like me (and keyboard players in general) a solution that doesn't offend their sense of symmetric universe. You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I could definitely chalk it up to precise digital replication of analog imperfection. I'm sure I'm not the only one who gagged on that. This is the way real organs behave and it's the way they're supposed to behave. I'm rather fond of authentic behavior. I have an EXP-100 pedal on an XK-3 (not 3c). It sends the full range of 0-127, as do all three of my FC7 pedals. By default, a value of 0 will not silence the organ. There is a page of parameters on the XK-3 that allows you tweak the overall level adjustment, as well as the amount of high and low roll off you get out of the pedal. I had no problem tweaking it to your liking. Set all three parameters (LEV HF LF) to off. The 3C is different. There are many folks around here who are familiar with both, but I'm not one of them. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thanks for the response. I have been using both the parameters you described and I guess it's just not quite precise enough for me. Seems like I'm either hitting the max way too early or I can't get the pedal to shut the volume to zero when I need it. I can probably make the FC7 work but I was hoping there was a different pedal that was more plug/play/precise without being pricy. When you reference the Hammond pedal, to which pedal are you referring? I was referring to the Exp-100f. I don't have an FC7 so I can't check one to see how the '3c reacts to it. I think most if not all pedals will reach 0 when fully raised and will get to 127 just before they are fully floored. For those that don't the gain adjustment will correct for the shortfall or overage. As mentioned above the Expression minimum parameter can be set to "Off" and that will cause the '3c to go silent when the pedal is raised but the MIDI value range should be 0 - 127 no matter what that setting is. When you move the pedal does the MIDI Monitor display a smooth change in values? If not and the number appears to jump around, this may indicate a dirty or worn pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Never owned a B/C3 but I got 500sq feet keys and guitars that all go to silent when the volume is at zero. Had the LEV at OFF. I'm starting to think that I misunderstood what HF and LF meant. My excuse would be the Hammond manual and it's direct from Japanese translation? If your FC7's work fine with it, that's great news as you can buy a crate full of them for the same as an EXP100. I guess I'll just continue to tweak. Sorry about the pharyngeal reflex but if you read my post in the context, you may see attempted humor. A guffah or scoff might be appropriate also. I have no agenda or axe to grind, I just want my rig to work, and save a couple of bucks and the Hammond manual is of limited value. You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you have a room full of keyboard gear, you should be well acquainted with Japsweedlish by now. Actually, it's not a volume pedal, it's an expression pedal. Volume and expression are different MIDI controllers and do different things. Volume is typically post everything. Expression is typically pre everything, so stepping on the gas will drive your tubes harder as well as increase level. The XK-3 doesn't even support MIDI volume, but you can put the expression pedal on the other side of the preamp if you want it to behave like a volume pedal. I forget where that setting is, and I'm too lazy to get up and look. Yes, you do have to set all three parameters (LEV HF LF) off to get the behavior you want. On the real deal, highs are affected more than lows. Additionally, the XK-3 lets you choose between EXP-100, PED1(NORM), PED1(REV), and MIDI for expression input. If you're not getting the full MIDI range of 0-127 from your FC7, either change normal to reverse, or reverse to normal. I forget which. If you have it set wrong, and you're too lazy to read the manual, you'll probably go out and buy an EXP-100 pedal. Please don't ask me how I know this. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This might also be one of your issues with the FC-7. Check this out: http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=322584 and the above adaptor can be purchased here: http://music.ashbysolutions.com/misc.htm 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This probably doesn't help with the FC7 but I have an M-Audio M-Gear EX-P (I think it is the same pedal as the Roland EV-5). I connected it to my '3c to compare to the EXP-100f. With the control knob on the pedal fully open the value changes from 127 down to 0. With it fully closed the value ranges from 127 down to 125. I can set the pedal type in the '3c to normal or reverse and it works fine either way. I can also set the switch on the EX-P to either M-Audio or Other and it works fine. There is one anomaly. With the pedal set to Other and the '3c set to Norm. it will only reach 126. When moving the switch on the pedal the MIDI values change and return to the first value ie:0 8 22 10 0 or 127 116 99 111 127 so it appears the '3c does some kind of check and correction. When I moved the EX-P as fast as I could (by hand) I could get as few as 8 data values in one direction. With the EXP-100f (by foot) I got at least double that. I don't know that my foot moves the pedal slower, but the travel distance is greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoooombiex Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I use a Moog expression pedal. They are pretty cheap, well made, and work fine. Different shape than a normal organ pedal, but it works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 After further review it seems like I had two different issues both related to min volume 1. The FC7 works just fine now with the Hammond alone. I didn't have the HF/LF settings at zero, and even with LEV at zero AND MON displaying zero with the heel down, you will still get volume with any value but "OFF" in LF and HF. Simple eh? 2. I think Delaware Dave has the solution to my other problem. The FC7 will not send a value of zero thru to Mainstage. The heel dn position consistently sends a min value of 40. The value changes smooth enough that I don't think it's a dirty pot. I either need to get a different pedal or an adapter. You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Are you using an external zone? If so (you probably have one turned on) the minimum volume may be set at 40 (pg. 92 #20). Try changing that to 0. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I was just about to run off to GC and checked your post. That probably saved me some time. Yes, I spent all yesterday with the manual and google translator and didn't catch that. That was definitely the problem. Sorry Delaware Dave, JMcS has found the solution. That was a great post though and I'm saving that information. Today I deep dive into the Yamaha S90XS manual. Standby for more stupid questions. You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The EXP-100f is expensive but it really is the best expression pedal on the market. I have an FC7 too and it's fine, but for Hammond work, the EXP-100f is essential, imo. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yes, I spent all yesterday with the manual and google translator and didn't catch that. That was definitely the problem. Until I can take a well written English manual and translate it into fluent Japanese I'm not going to complain about their efforts to translate it to English. Maybe I've been lucky to have had to deal with similarly written versions of technical manuals for many years but I don't usually have trouble figuring out what is meant. Years ago the company I worked for received the English translation manual and then spent hundreds of thousands of dollars re-writing it, bringing field technicians in to go over it and then testing them to see if they understood it, tweaking the text and on and on. We even pissed off the marketing VP because we would delay product launches getting the training and technical manuals ready so we could start the technical schools. And when all was said and done, we ran in to as many techs who couldn't understand the re-written manuals. Eventually we just started printing what we received. When we write in English we write something close to what we mean but everyone understands exactly what we meant. If you read the text of the English translation manuals, it usually says exactly what was meant but we have trouble understanding it. I think this comes from trying to force what was written into a sentence structure we grasp in our heads. Just read the words and pick out the meaning. I think it also helps to just read the book cover to cover a number of times without trying to figure some problem out. IMO, YMMV, Yada Yada Yada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've lived overseas and worked with many foreigners. I've made a living operating technically advanced machinery. I try not to be ethnocentric --BUT-- The GDP of English speaking countries (and I count Canada...sorry Quebecers) is about 4 times what Japan's is. Never been to Japan actually but I've been plenty of places in Asia where people can speak English just fine if there's a dollar to be made! Back to our regularly scheduled thread. I have to thank you guys for your help as I now know more about volume pedals than I ever thought possible. You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've lived overseas and worked with many foreigners. I've made a living operating technically advanced machinery. I try not to be ethnocentric --BUT-- The GDP of English speaking countries (and I count Canada...sorry Quebecers) is about 4 times what Japan's is. Never been to Japan actually but I've been plenty of places in Asia where people can speak English just fine if there's a dollar to be made! Back to our regularly scheduled thread. I have to thank you guys for your help as I now know more about volume pedals than I ever thought possible. Maybe, but the manufacturers have to make a profit too so spending a lot of time and money on a finely translated manual is just an extra cost. They probably figure, nobody reads the manual here either, why bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Domo go kyoryoku arigatogozaimashita JMcS-San You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Domo go kyoryoku arigatogozaimashita JMcS-San Its all Greek to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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