Keyboard Controller Question....

[allan_evett]

I've recently been in market for a weighted, graded action controller - preferably 76 keys, compact, and under 40 lbs. Something on which for smaller stage gigs I can play piano, yet also control at least two zones. Assignable sliders, knobs, pitch/mod, etc.. Price point at or under $1k, preferably less. Used for controlling SampleTank for iOS, or a Muse Receptor; possibly my MBP, if it can be adequately secured. I've used a previous rep sample PX-3 for this application, but that's no longer an option; my choice on that. Great 'board for certain applications, but mine ultimately wasn't one of them.

 

So I did some research, and ultimately what I decided to try was a Fatar VMK-176. Getting an absurdly good price on a B-stock unit helped greatly; a little $$$ ventured, not a huge issue to resell if necessary. While it is a single zone MIDI controller, I figured that as long as I could create multi-sound scenes within the Receptor, or on a VST Workstation I could arrive at what I needed from using 'MIDI Learn' functions with the various control elements on the VMK.

So far so good, well sort of.... I've done a couple setups within Kontakt - on both the MBP and Receptor - which are workable. Assigning volume controls between instruments works fine, i.e. piano/string layers and so forth. Though from reading up on HALion Sonic it looks to be a much better host - as well as having tons of useful sounds. Looking at that for when I use my MBP; don't see a 'Receptorized' version, yet. Meanwhile, I'm planning to try some other approaches within the Receptor. Unfortunately, SampleTank for iOS is a no go with the VMK, at least for faking zone control via MIDI learn and applying it to the up to 4 channel ST Performances; that's a cool feature, but apparently I'd need a true zone-able MIDI controller. Too bad, as the VMK / iPad could be a great mini rig.

 

So the VMK-176 is usable for the situation, though it will involve a fair amount of homework to create the faux zone controls, etc.. Plus it won't work effectively with ST for iOS. At this point I'm considering other, less homework intensive options that will also work with ST iOS Performances. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be anything of reputable quality that will do the job as strictly a soundless controller; CME is not an option, and I'm inclined to avoid the Oxygen 88 - as it's my understanding that the 'sound-to-finger' connection hasn't progressed much beyond the KS-88.

That leaves quality keybed ROMpler pianos that double as controllers, and I'd be getting over the $1K mark pretty fast. Unless there are any other instruments or ideas I've missed, I'll likely be making a decision before week's end: either hang onto to the VMK, or most likely pick up a CP50; I can get a new one for a great price, and have a lead on a used one for even less. True, it's over 40 lbs; but having moved one before, it's got a slim, easy to grip profile; and at least I'd have MIDI zones with which to work. Too bad there's not a 76 key version, though; ideally I wanted to stay a bit more compact, width-wise.

 

Thanks for wading through all of this. I know that there are some creative technoid minds here who also appreciate the need for a great sound-to-finger connection. I'd like at least a little more input on this.

[johnchop]

Allan,

 

As you are controlling modules, wouldn't the sound-to-finger connection rely on--or at least be improved by--proper velocity scaling in the host app? Yeah, that's a pretty nit-picky level of tweaking one might have to do, but I've found even some scaling presets can take a sound from "just ok" to "really expressive". So, I'd imagine that if the throw and heft of the action, the "sound-to-finger" issue is really more of software adjustment than something inherent to the controller.

 

As for the under $1K... yeesh... I dunno. I was going to suggest a digital piano.

 

-John

 

PS: I can't imagine a Receptor-hosted Halion Sonic any time soon, give its protection scheme.

[AnotherScott]

The board you want doesn't exist, as you seem to have realized, but I think the Yamaha MOX8 comes closer than the CP50. Lighter weight, and good MIDI controller functionality that isn't too complicated. Lower priced options that might work, with some additional trade-offs in functionality, could be the Kurzweil SP4-8 or possibly even Yamaha CP-33.

 

If you need more assignable controls for whatever you pick, possibly add something like a Novation Zero SL.

[Ashville.Guru]

As you are controlling modules, wouldn't the sound-to-finger connection rely on--or at least be improved by--proper velocity scaling in the host app? Yeah, that's a pretty nit-picky level of tweaking one might have to do, but I've found even some scaling presets can take a sound from "just ok" to "really expressive". So, I'd imagine that if the throw and heft of the action, the "sound-to-finger" issue is really more of software adjustment than something inherent to the controller.

This.

 

Have you considered the CP33, at $999? I assume you wouldn't like the SP4-7's keybed...

[allan_evett]

Thanks for the insights and suggestions so far, everyone. Here's what I'm thinking:

 

The MOX88, while a great compact 88 in its own right, is not quite a good fit for my situation. Its focus leans toward studio/computer based production (for which it looks terrific), vs. live performance. This is especially made evident by a slightly odd user interface: 'Performance Creator' , and the resulting Performance mode don't provide quick, front panel mix control for layered, or split voices. One needs to use Song Mode for that. Master Mode appears to offer capable front panel control of external sounds. But if one wants to mix and adjust a combination of internal Voices / external sounds then it's back to Song Mode.

This instrument is not what I'd call a performance controller, compared to the controller layouts found on a Kurzweil PC3, Roland RD700 (any version), or the Kawai MP6. Beyond basic Voice Mode, it appears designed more for DAW production.

 

Tweaking the host software for sound-to-finger connection is indeed a must. So far, the VMK-176 is working nicely with Pianoteq 2; not too much velocity adjustment was needed. Still trying to work out the high end of the keyboard tone in PT2, as there is an artificiality to the 'natural' sustain that I've always had an issue with. I've been able to tone it down, but never quite eliminate it. I've tried using the new pianos in Komplete 7; they're OK, but nothing like playing a Yamaha AWM or SCM Voice.

 

As well as the CP50, the CP33 is definitely on my radar. Tons of good comments both here and elsewhere online about the CP33. While I have played one previously, I've listened to a few demos lately. It's a lot of keyboard for the $$$, fairly compact and relatively light too. Very impressive pianos, two zones, and pitch/mod wheels. I plan to download the manual later today.

 

While the VMK does seem to play decently with my softsynths, I'm not convinced yet that it's the right keyboard for the job. Perhaps the CP33 - at a price point between the VMK and CP50 would be a better overall choice.

 

 

[Dana.]

Does the CP33 have "plug and play" USB? That would be a concern for me. I've had trouble installing drivers in the past.

[AnotherScott]

Performance mode don't provide quick, front panel mix control for layered, or split voices. One needs to use Song Mode for that.

In your circumstance, then, what is the downside of using Song Mode? I mean, if it solves the problem, then it's not an issue, unless Song Mode has some other limitation for you.

 

If you want that control in Performance mode, though, there are some options... you can use a front panel knob for one sound and an expression pedal for the other; or if you happen to have an iPad, you can use their Performance Editor Essential app, I think these will address the issue (among other possible workarounds, that are probably a bit more complicated).

 

Nothing is perfect... Yes, the CP33 does have the advantage of having two on-panel sliders, but it has the disadvantage of being limited to two zones, whereas the MOX lets you have four; and the MOX has assignable knobs, CP33 does not...

[Joe Muscara]

Does the CP33 have "plug and play" USB? That would be a concern for me. I've had trouble installing drivers in the past.

The term you're looking for is class compliant.

[Dana.]

The term you're looking for is class compliant.

I wasn't looking for a term.

[kanker.]

The term you're looking for is class compliant.

I wasn't looking for a term.

Yeah, he's not even good at installing drivers. Terms are just more knowledge to get in the way of donuts.

[Joe Muscara]

[allan_evett]

The term you're looking for is class compliant.

I wasn't looking for a term.

Yeah, he's not even good at installing drivers. Terms are just more knowledge to get in the way of donuts.

 

I'll take 'class compliant' any day; don't do drivers well at all, nor any clubs. I can take 9 holes of golf and make a day of it.

[humannoyed]

 

I've come close to replacing my Yamaha P90 with the CP33. I love the size and weight of the P90 which is nearly the same as the CP33. I am also still happy with the AP sounds and love the action feel, which I am pretty sure is the same as the CP33 but... the P90 sucks as a controller. At least I can do a simple split with a different midi channel for each side. Since I haven't played the CP33 I don't know if it much of an upgrade if any sound wise. Anyone played both?

 

I would probably get the MOX if the action was the same as these DPs. I played a P95 which I thought had inferior action, and I am under the impression the MOX has the same action as the P95. Can anyone confirm that?

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the insights and suggestions so far, everyone. Here's what I'm thinking:

 

The MOX88, while a great compact 88 in its own right, is not quite a good fit for my situation. Its focus leans toward studio/computer based production (for which it looks terrific), vs. live performance. This is especially made evident by a slightly odd user interface: 'Performance Creator' , and the resulting Performance mode don't provide quick, front panel mix control for layered, or split voices. One needs to use Song Mode for that. Master Mode appears to offer capable front panel control of external sounds. But if one wants to mix and adjust a combination of internal Voices / external sounds then it's back to Song Mode.

This instrument is not what I'd call a performance controller, compared to the controller layouts found on a Kurzweil PC3, Roland RD700 (any version), or the Kawai MP6. Beyond basic Voice Mode, it appears designed more for DAW production.

 

Tweaking the host software for sound-to-finger connection is indeed a must. So far, the VMK-176 is working nicely with Pianoteq 2; not too much velocity adjustment was needed. Still trying to work out the high end of the keyboard tone in PT2, as there is an artificiality to the 'natural' sustain that I've always had an issue with. I've been able to tone it down, but never quite eliminate it. I've tried using the new pianos in Komplete 7; they're OK, but nothing like playing a Yamaha AWM or SCM Voice.

 

As well as the CP50, the CP33 is definitely on my radar. Tons of good comments both here and elsewhere online about the CP33. While I have played one previously, I've listened to a few demos lately. It's a lot of keyboard for the $$$, fairly compact and relatively light too. Very impressive pianos, two zones, and pitch/mod wheels. I plan to download the manual later today.

 

While the VMK does seem to play decently with my softsynths, I'm not convinced yet that it's the right keyboard for the job. Perhaps the CP33 - at a price point between the VMK and CP50 would be a better overall choice.

 

[allan_evett]

Performance mode don't provide quick, front panel mix control for layered, or split voices. One needs to use Song Mode for that.

In your circumstance, then, what is the downside of using Song Mode? I mean, if it solves the problem, then it's not an issue, unless Song Mode has some other limitation for you.

 

If you want that control in Performance mode, though, there are some options... you can use a front panel knob for one sound and an expression pedal for the other; or if you happen to have an iPad, you can use their Performance Editor Essential app, I think these will address the issue (among other possible workarounds, that are probably a bit more complicated).

 

Nothing is perfect... Yes, the CP33 does have the advantage of having two on-panel sliders, but it has the disadvantage of being limited to two zones, whereas the MOX lets you have four; and the MOX has assignable knobs, CP33 does not...

 

Thanks, Scott. Yes, I could use Song Mode. However it is strange how Yamaha designed this keyboard, considering that Performance Creator on the S70XS will allow for slider volume control of the voices; it just has more intuitive and comprehensive interface directly tied into Performance Mode, etc..

 

In trying to get the best deal on any of these Yamaha keyboards, I've found much larger discounts on the CP33 and CP50, vs. the MOX8. The MOX is the highest priced of anything I've checked out.... Likely a different pricing structure. I ran into that with Kawai with the ES-6 vs. MP-6. Much better discount on the ES, but no on-board controllers. The MP-6 is a well designed piano/controller though, and priced very close to what I can get the CP50 for. Tempting...

[ProfD]

IMO, the Yamaha CP33 is a great deal considering the quality of sounds, action and MIDI capability for less than a grand.

[AnotherScott]

Thanks, Scott. Yes, I could use Song Mode. However it is strange how Yamaha designed this keyboard, considering that Performance Creator on the S70XS will allow for slider volume control of the voices; it just has more intuitive and comprehensive interface directly tied into Performance Mode

I agree, it is aggravating that Yamaha did not implement the use of the 4 knobs as 4 volume controls in Performance mode. I don't know if there was a technical issue in doing it, or if it really was a genuinely stupid oversight, but it's still a good board, and there are, as we've discussed, ways to deal with that issue.

 

OTOH, in some ways, its Performance mode is better than that in the S70XS, too. I often play LH bass, and want to change just the RH sound. On the MOX8, I can set it up so that I can play LH bass, hit a button, and see a list of the names of 16 sounds in the LCD screen that correspond to the 16 buttons which will alter the RH sound, and I have arranged sets of 16 sounds in the User bank for this purpose. So I can call up that screen and directly pick whatever sound I want, without having to scroll through sounds or memorize where something is or use cheat sheets. The S70XS doesn't have any such display capability. (Though in more Yamaha interface idiocy, the displayed names are ordered horizontally, while the buttons they reference are laid out vertically!)

 

The MP-6 is a well designed piano/controller though, and priced very close to what I can get the CP50 for. Tempting...

The MP-6 is a very nicely designed board, and unlike the MOX, even has something of a clonewheel organ built in. Unfortunately, it's 47+ lbs, about 15 lbs more than the MOX8.

[paddysmith]

Grate job.......

[allan_evett]

Thanks for the clarifications, Scott. Too bad the markup is so tight on the MOX8; a couple of folks who can give me essentially a cost deal on the CP have very little room to move on the MOX - which is beyond what I can swing without going into more debt. Heck, if I didn't have any qualms about borrowing more $$$$, my new Nord Stage 2 76 would already be here - talk about a great solution: compact, weighted 76 with 3x2 zoning, plus killer sounds and lots o' knobs for tweaking and 'MIDI learn'. The perfect small gig wonder board that would also have plenty of studio and bigger stage applications....

 

The VMK-176 plays great with the MacBook, but not so much with the Receptor. That's entirely a Receptor issue though; I have a hate/love relationship with that PITA awesome module. I trust the Receptor for control from the second tier keyboard in my larger setup, but to take it out as my only sound source ? Yikes.... I can sell it in good conscience, but with the caveat of highly recommending studio use only.

 

So unless something more positive happens from this 'experiment' before the end of the week I'll be ordering something else, keyboard/controller-wise.

[AnotherScott]

BTW, one reason it is so useful to be able to change just the right-hand sound is that the common alternative of creating different "performances" that include the same LH bass sound with different RH sounds is that the LH bass will "glitch" when you change from one Performance to another. If you just change the RH sound, the LH bass can play through without a problem. That's very handy when you need to change RH sounds in the middle of a song.

 

I actually don't usually recommend the MOX8 only because, for about the same price, you can get a MOX6 and any of a number of lightweight 88-key pianos, and have the advantage of having both weighted and unweighted actions at your disposal. I happen to prefer when the 88 isn't so deep, which is why I'll probably sell my MOX8... but there are times it's come in so handy, I keep going back and forth!

[Ashville.Guru]

Allan, I'm sorry, but I just don't get it.

 

Look at the two extremes in the big picture.

1. You could go hardware only, old school. Big advantage - you get a hassle-free, reliable setup. You're likely to not completely happy with some sounds/action/features on your rig.
2. You could go the laptop route - which means doing some homework, and setting up things right. Big advantage - utlimate flexibility, customization. You've got the ideal rig - you can mix'n'match studio-quality sounds of your choice with the action(s) of your choice - no compromises whatsoever.

The Receptor attempts to give you the best of both worlds - sonic mix'n'match flexibility + hassle-free setup. Most of the times, at least; in some unlucky contexts, you get neither.

 

But your (intended?) setup has a new fly-in-the-ointment: the iPad. To quote BurningBusch from another thread:

I have an ipad 2. I'm using it less and less for music and now largely just consumptive BS. I know we're in this "post-PC" world, HA HA HA HA HA, but a basic computer is still a 1,000 x better than an ipad for serious music applications.

So you've got neither the sonic quality of a laptop, nor the flexibility. Nor the hassle-free setup of old-school hardware, either. Yet, you're sacrificing a lot of very good controller options, to accommodate it into your rig...! Sorry, but I just don't see the wisdom in this. Yes, you get the slim form factor. But given the poor sonic advantage, and the huge compromises with your keys, I have to ask - how much is the form factor an advantage over your MBP? Get a decent laptop stand and you're good to go! You'd need some kind of mounting for the iPad too, anyways...

 

You mentioned securing the MBP - there's the Kensington lock system. And if that doesn't work for you, here's what I do: it takes me less than 30 seconds to disconnect my laptop, stash it into my backpack, when I need to take a loo break or something.

 

With the iPad, it seems you're sacrificing way too much and gaining way too little.

[allan_evett]

Some good points... What I'm trying to do here is create a solid, lighter 'B rig'. Though for the 'A rig' I'm taking a long look at your advice to incorporate the MBP vs. the Receptor. Typically for about 60% of the gigs I use a Kronos 88, and Motif XF7 MIDI connected - via Voce MIDI Drawbar - to the Receptor. The remainder of the time that rig either won't fit the stage, or the rig/strike situation is unfavorable (opening act gig, fest, tiny stage on top o' the bar w/unstable stairs....). True, for software instruments the MPB does offer a lot more sonic options, and is much more stable, IMO. With a host workstation like HalionSonic, and a secured laptop stand it'll be a good set up. I have the Quik-Lok Laptop stand and attachment, the trick now is to find a quality second tier that supports it. I'm on my third, replacement Quik-Lok 604 2nd tier, so that's become the stand in my workspace - albeit with some help from gaffer's tape. With no laptop stand available for my AX-90B, and the 'three years in production' IQ-300 not yet available for my IQ-3000, I'm going to have to look into a 3rd party, universal 2nd tier that'll connect to the IQ. I believe both K & M and On-Stage offer a few different options.

 

For the 'B-rig' the iPad has worked fine, 2nd tier, with a Edirol PCR-800. It sits quite securely on the bottom tier keyboard c/o an Otterbox Defender case. Switching between single tones in SampleTank iOS and iOS Garage Band Organ has worked well.

Previous bottom tier 'board had been a 'past warranty' PX-3, w/increasingly loose black keys (unfortunately I'm not the only one who's had that problem). As I went through a similar situation with Roland in the 90's - and spent a small fortune having the keys replaced - I have no desire to repeat that scenario. So I'd thought that the iPad might work out as a compact option for bottom tier with a budget controller - doing some two layer, piano/string type stuff with SampleTank iOS; then I'd use an XW-P1 top tier for the organ/synth stuff. A super light, hassle-free setup, at least in theory. In reality it will likely work out better to keep the PCR-800 / iPad combination in place, and simply upgrade slightly from the PX-3. Hence the recent CP-33, and CP-50 thoughts. The CP-50 offers more than the PX-3, the CP-33 a bit less. A Roland RD-300GX could split the difference nicely, but they are tough to find used. And the few new ones I've seen are priced higher than what I can get a CP50 for.

BTW, as my rig - either scenario - needs to be two tiered, I've decided that I'm not comfortable with the idea of two, soundless controllers running a laptop, or a laptop and tablet. I now feel that for the sake of back up there needs to be at least one keyboard with a sound engine.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

The CP-50 offers more than the PX-3, the CP-33 a bit less.

Another possibility could be a Kurzweil SP4-8. It only has the one knob, but I believe it is easy to switch it among 5 programmable functions on the fly, and overall I would put it above the CP-33 (or PX3) as a MIDI controller (I'm not familiar with the MIDI controller functionality of the CP-50).

[Ashville.Guru]

Some good points... What I'm trying to do here is create a solid, lighter 'B rig'. Though for the 'A rig' I'm taking a long look at your advice to incorporate the MBP vs. the Receptor.

It wasn't actually a recommendation of a MBP Vs Receptor - for many contexts, the Receptor will perhaps be the better option. You will have to take a call on that.

For the 'B-rig' the iPad has worked fine, 2nd tier, with a Edirol PCR-800. It sits quite securely on the bottom tier keyboard c/o an Otterbox Defender case. Switching between single tones in SampleTank iOS and iOS Garage Band Organ has worked well.

 

So I'd thought that the iPad might work out as a compact option for bottom tier with a budget controller - doing some two layer, piano/string type stuff with SampleTank iOS; then I'd use an XW-P1 top tier for the organ/synth stuff. A super light, hassle-free setup, at least in theory. In reality it will likely work out better to keep the PCR-800 / iPad combination in place, and simply upgrade slightly from the PX-3.

I have a question, something that I genuinely don't know. Sonically, how big of an advantage is the iPad, compared to the onboard sounds of a XW-P1/CP-50 combo? I have no experience with SampleTank, still I understand that their iOS sounds are very good.

 

But how much better are they, compared to onboard sounds of XW-P1&CP-50?

 

Here's how I see it: if I'm going to stick any kinda sound module (especially a non-rackmount one) into my rig, it'd better be worth the effort of lugging+additional connections, etc. If we're talking Ivory/VB3/Omnisphere, it's understandable - the differential in sonic quality is (perhaps) worth it.

 

With SampleTank iOS/Garageband Organ, is the differential that noticeable?

 

I understand that often, it doesn't necessarily have to be "better". One may just be more usable on stage, cut through better, or it might be a personal preference for a different tone. But is it really so in this case?

[allan_evett]

The SP4/8 - from what I've read - is fairly comprehensive as a controller, with at least four zones. I'll download and check out the manual for the details.

The CP50 will control four zones, with a basic list of parameters to cover control assignments. While the CP has three knobs for control, vs. one on the SP, I believe that only one knob is active, per selected zone, at a time; at least that's how I understand it from the manual.

The CP33 will control two zones, with both volume sliders active from the front panel. Looks to cover a similar list as the CP50, programming-wise.

Looks like the CP50 and SP4/8 require a little more jumping around to control individual levels, while the CP33 has the two grab and go sliders. The CP50 wins display-wise though, so it appears one could move around it fairly fast.

 

 

Sonically, the iPad tones I use are solid for 'bread and butter' synth and organ sounds. Actually the GarageBand organ model is stronger than most of the basic ROMpler organs, with the exception of Kurzweil's KB3 mode, and the Kronos CX-3 engine. Plus the touch screen has a Hammond style control interface, drawbars and all.

 

[Ashville.Guru]

Sonically, the iPad tones I use are solid for 'bread and butter' synth and organ sounds. Actually the GarageBand organ model is stronger than most of the basic ROMpler organs, with the exception of Kurzweil's KB3 mode, and the Kronos CX-3 engine. Plus the touch screen has a Hammond style control interface, drawbars and all.

Thanks Allan - that answers my questions.

 

BTW, here's an OT, crazy, out-of-the-box suggestion. I'm just curious as to what you would think about using DJ laptop stand on the floor, something like this? Makes much more sense if you play sitting rather than standing...

[AnotherScott]

The MP-6 is a well designed piano/controller though, and priced very close to what I can get the CP50 for. Tempting...

If one of the points of the B-rig is to be lighter weight, these don't seem to offer too much advantage over your Kronos 88.

 

If you are willing to get up that weight range, you might also look at a Korg M50-88, which is a pretty strong MIDI controller, and you'll probably be very quickly comfortable with it because of how similar much of the interface is to the Kronos.

 

One thing I really like about the M50 as a MIDI controller is that you can create screens full of named buttons for patch selection, and you can have 16 displayed on the screen at once, and switch among them by touching them. You can name them specifically for the GB and ST sounds you want them to call up. This is similar to what I mentioned earlier, about how patch selection is better on a MOX8 than an S70XS, because you can bring up an LCD screen full of 16 custom patch names that can then be selected by single button, but there are some notable differences between the M50 and MOX implementations:

 

... MOX only shows 8 characters of a patch name, M50 typically shows 16+ characters of a patch name, and the patch names are more readable (proportionally spaced)

 

... MOX permits 128 such custom patches for controlling external devices ("Masters"), M50 permits 512 ("Combis")... however, it is easier to change from one set of 16 to another set of 16 on the MOX than on the M50, so if you need more than 16 but fewer than 129, this would actually be a MOX advantage

 

... M50 allows you to leave the screen of 16 names visible at all times as you play and switch among the sounds; the MOX exits that screen when you actually select a sound, and you must hit a button to call the display back up

 

... On the M50, you press the touchscreen on the name of the sound to select it; on the MOX you look at the vertically arranged list of patches on the LCD screen, and then locate the corresponding horizontally arranged button, so it's not as quick to do

 

... OTOH, I think re-ordering the patches is easier on the MOX

 

Like the MOX, though, I believe that while the M50 is perfectly adept at using its 4 knobs to control the volumes of different external sound sources, it does not make it so easy to create simultaneous access to the levels of multiple internal sounds. In fact, I think in this respect, I think the MOX is actually better.

 

Other than that, MOX has the advantage of lighter weight (and, IMO, stronger internal sounds overall if you do need to use them, though that's always subjective and also depends on what sounds you need...).

 

(...and if you wanted to go really lightweight and still have more than 61 keys, the M50 is available in a lightweight 73. It is a bad action for piano, though...)

 

 

[allan_evett]

Tempting as its layout is, the MP6 just wouldn't work, space-wise; too bulky. Keyboard depth is an issue - especially on one of my very steady, and well paying band gigs; the stage is minuscule, and oddly shaped. The PX-3 just fit, so the Kronos is out of the question. Plus, I don't want it getting banged up when rigging; we're literally stepping around each other's gear for that set up; it's the weirdest freakin' stage I've ever played on. There are a couple of other oddball stages in town, too.

 

I don't mind a weight between 40-45 lbs, as long as the keyboard is fairly streamlined - which the CP50 is; it's one of the closest 'footprint' replacements for the PX-3; the CP33 being the closest (the pitch/mod wheels placed above helps greatly). Both the Kurz SP4-8 and Roland RD-300GX are close; the RD is the lightest choice of the bunch. I found one for $1K, via third party on Amazon, but am a little concerned about the seller's status/rep.

 

Don't think an M-50 88 would do it for me; need to have a stronger piano. Obviously doesn't have to be Kronos level, but think CP33 or the Basic RD-300GX tone; those I could use for a solo situation, if need be. The SP4-8 is an attractive option, too - it could always be paired with a Behringer BCR 200, or Novation Zero SL MK2 if I found the single knob too limiting (seems pretty versatile though

- from my initial manual browse).

[Jaime Chimuelo]

I just got a Priva PX3S and a BCF 2000 and can do lots with my hardware rackmount analogs and DSP rack. It costs 675 USD for both and I love the action and control I get with Kontakt.

20 lbs....

[allan_evett]

That's cool, Jaime; glad that rig's worked out for you. Those Behringer control surfaces seem pretty cool. I remember a YouTube video posted here, about a year or so ago, where a guy was demonstrating in depth control of the Kurzweil PC3 VA engine using a BCR 200.

Right now most of my rack modules stay in the studio, as there's typically not enough stage space for a separate rack. But the stacked sounds I can get within my main keyboards usually do the job for my current band.

 

Enjoy the PX3S ! It's a pretty versatile stage piano and sound engine; fun to program, and set up Registrations. Possibly I had an earlier model with a keybed issue, as the black keys on mine ended up dangerously loose. Maybe it was a case of too many piano glisses, and organ smears

[Ashville.Guru]

Tempting as its layout is, the MP6 just wouldn't work, space-wise; too bulky. Keyboard depth is an issue - especially on one of my very steady, and well paying band gigs; the stage is minuscule, and oddly shaped. The PX-3 just fit, so the Kronos is out of the question.

 

I don't mind a weight between 40-45 lbs, as long as the keyboard is fairly streamlined - which the CP50 is; it's one of the closest 'footprint' replacements for the PX-3; the CP33 being the closest (the pitch/mod wheels placed above helps greatly). Both the Kurz SP4-8 and Roland RD-300GX are close;

 

Do you mean length rather than depth? Because if you indeed meant depth, and the PX-3's 11.26" just fits, then there's a problem - the next best is the CP-33, with 13". It looks like the PX3 is the only thing that will fit in there...! The MP6 is only 3/4" more than the CPs.