Feds raid Gibson (follow-up)

[pinkjimiphoton]

guy i'm talking about is in new york city...forget the name. he didn't have illicit ivory, he had illicit pianos. (because of the ivory) was on the news a couple months ago.

[pinkjimiphoton]

gibson needs 10mm blanks to make fingerboards. feds say despite gibson's source having no problem with selling them the 10mm boards, they can't be more than 6mm. hence, either gibson outsources, or stops using the wood, as importing the 10mm blanks to mill down to 6mm boards is illegal to do here...which is why gibson was closed down. the only way they can continue would be to outsource the work, and have the fingerboards machined in the country the wood comes from.

 

again...i cry bullsh*t on the feds.

 

i see it as: "you need 10mm blanks? then you need to have the work done outside of the country". gibson sees it the same.

 

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I hope you can find out the name- I'd like to se the facts of it.

 

I haven't been able to find record of pianos seized in NY.

 

I found a report to the Hague containing a list of all ivory seizures in the world 1998-2007- the USA is on pg54- but it doesn't break down by city.

 

http://www.ssn.org/Meetings/cop/cop14/Other/SSN_CoP14_ivory_report.pdf

[pinkjimiphoton]

try google. i honestly don't care about researching it atm

 

here's a couple links

 

http://www.squarepianotech.com/?page_id=320

 

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110829/00215015722/feds-raid-gibson-musicians-now-worried-govt-will-take-their-guitars-away.shtml

 

quote:

 

"And since this is a "strict liability" situation, asking the government for help in making sure you're being legal may actually make things worse. Much worse:

 

Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperworkwhich simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.

 

There was never any question that the instruments were old enough to have grandfathered ivory keys. But Mr. Vieillard didn't have his paperwork straight when two-dozen federal agents came calling.

 

Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.

I'm all for not destroying the environment -- and if Gibson is really doing something bad, then that should be dealt with. But some of these other situations just seem flat out ridiculous. Don't the feds have more important things to do?"

 

 

here's a google search for ya if ya wanna go for it.

 

again, i call bullsh*t on the feds...this is a goddamn witchhunt.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=A-440+pianos+confiscated&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually, you might notice upon re-reading what I posted upthread and comparing it, that's the case I mentioned. The pianos may have been seized in NYC, but Pascal Vieillard & his company were in Atlanta, not NY.

 

The people citing the A-440 case as an example of the Feds as jackbooted thugs running over our rights as citizens are simply wrong and are mis-stating the facts of the case. Pascal Vieillard KNOWINGLY filed false import papers on 10 of 11 pianos in order to save money on the documentation of grandfathered ivory, instead smuggling it in a case of furniture.

 

That's not Feds on a witch-hunt- he cheated when he didn't have to just save himself $$ (about $2k/piano) and he got caught. He just didn't want to pay what all other piano importers would have paid.

 

And was he passing the savings onto his customers? Or was he pocketing the difference for himself?

 

He's not a martyr. He's not worthy of sympathy.

 

you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts, man. And the fact is Pascal Vieillard actually did illegally import ivory.

[Scott Fraser]

Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.

[/b]

 

After seeing just a few seconds of that YouTube of Mr. Vieillard playing naked I'm not sure there's a prison sentence long enough to pay for that crime against humanity.

[gryphon]

[pinkjimiphoton]

the feds are outta control, in damn near every aspect. it's not right.

 

making a huge...err...FEDERAL CASE out of stuff that's been dead for longer than any ban seems kinda retarded.

 

you can think what ya want, believe what ya want, support what ya want.. i personally am completely sick of our out of control government playing "team america, world police".

 

are their actions going to restore the dead animals from whom the ivory was poached nigh a century ago to life?

 

is it going to restore nearly extinct rosewood that was overharvested by another country who's greed led to the specie's demise?

 

nope. protecting dead stuff isn't gonna help anyone, nor is confiscating it. like most prohibition, all it will do is CREATE (more of) a black market for it, and increase the incentive for criminals to profit from traficking in it illicitly.

 

it's a retarded waste of resource; from a completely pragmatic triage stance, we need to protect the resources left, not worry about the resources already irreparably wasted.

 

if gibson, as it claims, is buying wood legally from the country that harvests and sells it, legally by that government's standards, so be it.

 

it's our government that is proclaiming it a crime, whether it is ethically is a moot point. it should be more of a concern to the country of origin. if not, that's not gibson's issue.

 

seizing the company, and putting it and it's employees out of business over a couple thousandths of an inch seems rather a waste of resource...

 

of course, our government appears to be very good at that the last few decades.

 

somewhere when all this crap first broke out, i read that gibson was informed if they needed to process this wood to a "u.s." legal thickness, they would have to do so outside this country.

 

and that, my brother, means outsourcing yet another american company's work.

 

and i cry, redundantly, bullsh*t.

 

i guess we need to send the gibson craftsmen over there...and then stuff can be mass produced in china, and assembled here...win one for the american people.

 

way to go, team america.

 

like i said. bullsh*t.

[Fumblyfingers]

This is such a stupid situation with Gibson...and others..... and yes the government is 100% entirely out of control.....I agree with that. Basically, unless things change rapidly in this once great country, we are fucked.

[Scott Fraser]

yes the government is 100% entirely out of control....

 

Sorry, I just can't share that opinion at all. I think it lacks a sense of perspective. Syria is a place with a government out of control.

[webe123]

yes the government is 100% entirely out of control....

 

Sorry, I just can't share that opinion at all. I think it lacks a sense of perspective. Syria is a place with a government out of control.

 

I agree with scott on this one.

 

Saying the government is out of control is kind of a broad term. This may be serious to guitar players and others dealing in exotic woods, but in the general public? I DOUBT SERIOUSLY that people would see it that way.

 

America has lost a lot of jobs, THAT is the most important thing on their minds...getting people back to work and restoring the housing industry will probably be issue No. 1 with a lot of voters.

 

Somehow I doubt Henry J's rants are up there with issues like those.

 

And yes, when a government like syria is cutting up children and sending their bodies back to their parents warning them not to protest, THAT is a screwed up government. Makes what we are talking about seem silly compared to that!

[Fumblyfingers]

You cannot compare what I am saying about this country, to regions in the world like that. That is a whole 'nother realm. I am not even talking in the same terms as governments that commit atrocities against their own and whoever else also. Yes, that stuff is terrible.

 

But my saying OUR government is out of control, is just a figure of speech.

 

Compared to how it has been in the past or compared to how it should be behaving or looking at how the constitution is being walked all over and how this President has said he will bypass Congress whenever he wants something and is not getting it etc etc etc....yes, I'm saying the US government is out of control.

 

Figure of speech.

 

But throw Syria into the discussion.........of course it makes our government look like the greatest thing ever. Of course it makes our citizens plight appear minuscule by comparison. But that is not the point is it? We are not talking about Syria here. I said what I said about this government.

 

Why do I say this about our government? Well, that's the rub........if I go deep with this....I would be breaking the rules and engaging in political discourse so I cannot go there. I am just voicing my opinion in keeping with what has already been said here in this thread with no interruption or warning from administration.

 

So I will leave it there. Nothing anyone here could say to me would change my mind about how I feel anyway. So we would just argue pointlessly. I have spent the last four or five years hard core researching on my own, as much as I can and reading as much as I can...with as open a mind as I can. I am pretty convinced at this juncture.

 

But bottom line.......we need to consider...... it is the USA who goes to everyone's rescue when they are hurting.......we help topple their tyrants, we ship them food, loan them money, help build their infrastructures etc etc etc.....not only that, they need the money we pay them for their products.

 

In the case of Gibson's deal......are we raping their forests, are we screwing their people over financially, are we taking advantage of the little guy? No, no, no? Okay....what's the big deal? Gibson being able to make their guitars and sell all around the world is GOOD for the US economy. Why mess with that?

 

Is what Gibson is alleged to have done anywhere near as disastrous or scandalous as the government lending $600 MILLION dollars to an energy company we know is failing? Even when close advisors said don't do it.......and not too long after that that company goes belly up. $600 mil *POOF* out the window.

 

Where is the accountability there? But let's really jack with Gibson over a technicality.

[pinkjimiphoton]

this isn't about syria, this is about the good old usa.

 

the one where we were raised with truth, justice, and the american way....where we were the fuckin' GOOD guys.

 

it's not my america anymore...we were sold out by previous administrations.

 

hell yes, this is probably, hell, definitely the best place to live on the planet.

 

and by god, i intend to do whatever i can...and do....to keep it that way.

 

our government is out of control. this is america, not some fascist fucktard land where the government rules the people.

 

WE are supposed to RULE the GOVERNMENT.

 

that's why this democratic republic ELECTS them. but it's not the same, hasn't been since the fed incorporated long before we were born, rendering us effectively cattle.

 

i say bullshit on them.

 

they work for US. and if they don't, and they don't, and haven't, it's time for them to be removed, deposed, and disposed of by whatever means necessary for america to be restored to the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

cuz this ain't it.

 

no, it's NOT syria, thanks to people like us fighting to keep our freedoms.

 

but it's not team america, world police, either...which more and more is how we are seen and portrayed by the rest of the civilized world.

 

enough....if someone wants to suck up to the national socialists destroying my country, and tell them what a great job they do as they destroy the constitution some of us hold holy, that's their perogative.

 

i, for one, just like my ancestors since before this country was even a nation, will do whatever is in our power to defend our country, it's people, and the constitution that is supposed to bind us. a nation isn't a government, or land.

it's WE, THE PEOPLE.

 

united we stand...divided, the whold damn thing slides down the goddamn pipes.

 

so...while i will never agree with this retarded action on the part of our shared (for better or worse) government, i will support your rights, irregardless of me agreeing or not, to state your cause...right or wrong. you are a person, my peer, my equal. you are an american.

 

the government, however, is NOT. they are an EXTENSION of our society, not the be-all, end-all, or all powerful...they were never intended to be that. they are not an entity, they are not an american...they are a business, and a goddamn corrupt one built on inflation to distract from the bullion they don't possess.

 

jefferson reccomended overthrowing it every 7 years or so.

 

we're 2 centuries and a couple decades overdue.

 

semper fidelis. wake up, before this becomes as fucked up as other places.

 

rant done.

 

i cry bullshit on the feds....and those who support their bloated and uncontrolled actions.

 

pink jimi photon, proud to be an american, descended from our forefathers.

[Dannyalcatraz]

In the case of Gibson's deal......are we raping their forests, are we screwing their people over financially, are we taking advantage of the little guy? No, no, no? Okay....what's the big deal? Gibson being able to make their guitars and sell all around the world is GOOD for the US economy. Why mess with that?

 

Because at this point, we only know what Gibson is telling us and what is in the warrants. That's it.

 

We don't know what- if anything- the government has found out from the raids, and what they knew beforehand. Those warrants could be based on eyewitness testimony from foreign sources or even a whistleblower within Gibson or Gibson's network of suppliers

 

For all we know, Gibson could be hiring African warlords for materials they obtained by enslaving villages and poaching elephants & South African abalone, and they've just done a good job of concealing it.

 

So I won't be judging either side until this show reaches the end.

[gryphon]

Yeah, but we've all read the fed warrant and it said nothing about South African abalone.

[Dannyalcatraz]

It didn't say anything about poaching elephants for ivory, either. The point is, whatever provided the impetus for the raids, they're only going to allege the stuff they have the strongest proof for in order to get a warrant. Everything and anything else will follow their examination of the seized material and computer data.

[webe123]

You cannot compare what I am saying about this country, to regions in the world like that.

 

I not only CAN but just DID! Why? Because for some people, what we are talking about seems far more important that it actually is compared to other places in the world.

 

 

But it is people like you that is making a mountain out of a molehill. Compared to other countries, our problems are FAR less terrible.

 

But my saying OUR government is out of control, is just a figure of speech.

 

Your griping didn't seem that way to me. It seemed like you were making a big deal out of something that was not a government conspiracy. At least not as far as I am concerned! If Gibson is guilty, then they should pay the price and if the government cannot come up with a decent reason to prosecute, then they need to let Gibson go..it really is as simple as that.

 

Compared to how it has been in the past or compared to how it should be behaving or looking at how the constitution is being walked all over and how this President has said he will bypass Congress whenever he wants something and is not getting it etc etc etc....yes, I'm saying the US government is out of control.

 

Your dislike of the president is of NO importance to me because I think you are dead wrong about him, but that is another discussion for another time. And what do you think congress has been doing....HUH? They have the LOWEST approval rating in congressional history. Can't help it if they are republican, but that is the way it is.

 

But throw Syria into the discussion.........of course it makes our government look like the greatest thing ever. Of course it makes our citizens plight appear minuscule by comparison. But that is not the point is it? We are not talking about Syria here. I said what I said about this government.

 

No, if you would learn to read, I was responding to another post ABOUT SYRIA! Go back and read the post! That post WAS NOT made by me. I just happened to agree with what was said. And YES it IS stupid and selfish to think that this government is so messed up , when there are a lot worse places that have horrible governments. If you don't like this government, there are planes and trains everyday going out of America.

 

Why do I say this about our government? Well, that's the rub........if I go deep with this....I would be breaking the rules and engaging in political discourse so I cannot go there. I am just voicing my opinion in keeping with what has already been said here in this thread with no interruption or warning from administration.

 

Yeah you have a rub alright and it is all wrong and based entirely on what you suspect, not facts.

 

 

So I will leave it there. Nothing anyone here could say to me would change my mind about how I feel anyway. So we would just argue pointlessly. I have spent the last four or five years hard core researching on my own, as much as I can and reading as much as I can...with as open a mind as I can. I am pretty convinced at this juncture.

 

Believe what you want and I will do the same, but I think you are dead wrong on a lot of points.

 

But bottom line.......we need to consider...... it is the USA who goes to everyone's rescue when they are hurting.......we help topple their tyrants, we ship them food, loan them money, help build their infrastructures etc etc etc.....not only that, they need the money we pay them for their products.

 

Yes we do come to the rescue a bit too often, but we are also one of the most prosperous nations in the world. What would YOU have us do? Turn our backs?

 

In the case of Gibson's deal......are we raping their forests, are we screwing their people over financially, are we taking advantage of the little guy? No, no, no? Okay....what's the big deal? Gibson being able to make their guitars and sell all around the world is GOOD for the US economy. Why mess with that?

 

Beacuse you don't seem to get the FACT that what they are accused of IS BREAKING THE LAW!Weather or not they are actually guilty is up to a court to decide. But if it IS proven what they have done, then they should pay a price. Simple as that! No one should be above the law. Don't like the law? Great, then get it changed! Until then it remains the law and will be enforced!

 

Is what Gibson is alleged to have done anywhere near as disastrous or scandalous as the government lending $600 MILLION dollars to an energy company we know is failing? Even when close advisors said don't do it.......and not too long after that that company goes belly up. $600 mil *POOF* out the window.

 

Yeah and I guess you would NEVER give the president credit for taking out the no. 1 terrorist in the world ...OR saving the auto industry. Keep in your little dream world. It is a lot safer there!

 

Where is the accountability there? But let's really jack with Gibson over a technicality.

 

You want to talk about accountability? What about the way congress has gotten the lowest approval rating..YET INSIST on giving tax breaks to the wealthy. The truth is there are a LOT of things in the government you can find wrong with. Not just this small deal with Gibson. 'nuff said.

[webe123]

this isn't about syria, this is about the good old usa.

 

the one where we were raised with truth, justice, and the american way....where we were the fuckin' GOOD guys.

 

it's not my america anymore...we were sold out by previous administrations.

 

hell yes, this is probably, hell, definitely the best place to live on the planet.

 

and by god, i intend to do whatever i can...and do....to keep it that way.

 

our government is out of control. this is america, not some fascist fucktard land where the government rules the people.

 

WE are supposed to RULE the GOVERNMENT.

 

that's why this democratic republic ELECTS them. but it's not the same, hasn't been since the fed incorporated long before we were born, rendering us effectively cattle.

 

i say bullshit on them.

 

they work for US. and if they don't, and they don't, and haven't, it's time for them to be removed, deposed, and disposed of by whatever means necessary for america to be restored to the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

cuz this ain't it.

 

no, it's NOT syria, thanks to people like us fighting to keep our freedoms.

 

but it's not team america, world police, either...which more and more is how we are seen and portrayed by the rest of the civilized world.

 

enough....if someone wants to suck up to the national socialists destroying my country, and tell them what a great job they do as they destroy the constitution some of us hold holy, that's their perogative.

 

i, for one, just like my ancestors since before this country was even a nation, will do whatever is in our power to defend our country, it's people, and the constitution that is supposed to bind us. a nation isn't a government, or land.

it's WE, THE PEOPLE.

 

united we stand...divided, the whold damn thing slides down the goddamn pipes.

 

so...while i will never agree with this retarded action on the part of our shared (for better or worse) government, i will support your rights, irregardless of me agreeing or not, to state your cause...right or wrong. you are a person, my peer, my equal. you are an american.

 

the government, however, is NOT. they are an EXTENSION of our society, not the be-all, end-all, or all powerful...they were never intended to be that. they are not an entity, they are not an american...they are a business, and a goddamn corrupt one built on inflation to distract from the bullion they don't possess.

 

jefferson reccomended overthrowing it every 7 years or so.

 

we're 2 centuries and a couple decades overdue.

 

semper fidelis. wake up, before this becomes as fucked up as other places.

 

rant done.

 

i cry bullshit on the feds....and those who support their bloated and uncontrolled actions.

 

pink jimi photon, proud to be an american, descended from our forefathers.

 

Blame the government all you want, but if people do not take a stand or make changes , then they deserve what they get.

 

 

[Fumblyfingers]

Because at this point, we only know what Gibson is telling us and what is in the warrants. That's it. For all we know, Gibson could be hiring African warlords for materials they obtained by enslaving villages and poaching elephants & South African abalone, and they've just done a good job of concealing it.

 

 

Why not rather take the stance that it is probably taking so long because the government/feds more than likely messed something up.....overreached with their power etc etc?

 

I know the warlords comment was in jest etc but think about it.......why not joke instead about the government trying to bribe people to testify against Gibson or something like that? Why put it on Gibson?

 

Yes, only Gibson is saying anything but they are also asking for their day in court. I just can't buy into the argument that it's because the feds are still building their case that they have not charged them yet. They have had about 3 years overall already. How long do they want, need, think they can have ....... WHILE they hold confiscated inventory? It is not like it's drugs or weapons, bombs etc. It is some wood that a respectable company, an iconic American company is using for guitar manufacture. Something they paid for with legal money, their money.

 

I mean, whatever did happen to the right to a speedy trial? Is that out the window like so many other things?

 

I think almost everyone agrees........if Gibson pulled some gnarly move here, they need to pay for it. If old Henry is personally responsible in some way.......maybe he should be called to step down by the board. Whatever!! If they did something heinously wrong...........sure, let the feds come down hard on them.

 

But the way the government is handling this is piss poor. And nothing anyone say's will change the way people like myself and PJP think about it.

 

All this time. Two raids a couple years apart. And nothing? The massive power of the government, the long arm of the law, all their unbelievable resources and our money.....and they cannot pull this case together?

 

Please!

[Fumblyfingers]

 

No, if you would learn to read.......you don't seem to get the FACT that what they are accused of IS BREAKING THE LAW..........Keep in your little dream world. It is a lot safer there!.........Yeah you have a rub alright and it is all wrong and based entirely on what you suspect, not facts............. you are dead wrong on a lot of points.

 

Let me ask the mods here publicly. Is this acceptable? Did I once insult or put to task this webe123 during the course of this thread? Enough to have him insult me.....my ability to read, to tell me I live in a dream world......etc. Small stuff, but you know....... it is directed and is designed purely to provoke.

 

So I want to know. Is this going to be allowed to fly? Because if so, I got a lot to say to this.....person.....and it ain't gonna be pretty. Those of you on the mod side know me well, and I swear, I am holding back with all I have right now. I don't need you to fight my battles and nor do I care what happens to my membership.......but for now, I am going with the rules here and not blasting this webe123.... person.

 

So I would like this to be ironed out by you please. It is not the first time this member has provoked me as you know.....and not just me either.

 

I'm guessing the victim card is coming.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Why not rather take the stance that it is probably taking so long because the government/feds more than likely messed something up.....overreached with their power etc etc?

 

Because, as I've said before, I know how these things work; I know the process.

 

The agencies gather evidence. At some point, if they gain enough evidence to support a warrant, they go to a judge and swear one out. If the judge believes the allegations support issuing a warrant, he does so. (Lowest burden of proof.)

 

The warrant gets served, evidence gets seized. Seized evidence gets analyzed.

 

If further evidence of the acts alleged in the warrant OR evidence of any other criminal activity is found, the investigation continues & expands up until the point when the agencies submit their evidence to the prosecutors.

 

The prosecutors then analyze the evidence themselves to see if the evidence supports bringing formal charges. (Next highest burden of proof.). If it does not, the investigation may continue, but it could end.

 

If the prosecutors think they have enough for an indictment, they proceed down that avenue- including depositions and interrogatories.- but realize that there will be all kinds of legal maneuvering before, during and after the case is presented to a grand jury or other kind of Pre-trial hearing.

 

Anyone who hasn't been deposed at this point may be subpoenaed. More legal maneuvering will occur. Maybe there will be some plea-bargaining. Maybe there will be some ADR.

 

And only after all of that do you get to a trial.

 

This all takes time, sometimes lots of it.

 

It took 6 years for R. Kelly to come to trial after his arrest for child porn, after all, and there were orders of magnitude fewer bytes of data to sift through than in the Gibson case.

 

Yes, only Gibson is saying anything but they are also asking for their day in court. I just can't buy into the argument that it's because the feds are still building their case that they have not charged them yet. They have had about 3 years overall already. How long do they want, need, think they can have ....... WHILE they hold confiscated inventory? It is not like it's drugs or weapons, bombs etc. It is some wood that a respectable company, an iconic American company is using for guitar manufacture. Something they paid for with legal money, their money.

 

I mean, whatever did happen to the right to a speedy trial? Is that out the window like so many other things?

 

They still have the wood because it is evidence. They will have to produce it at trial in the condition in which it was seized. If returned to Gibson for use, it can't be used as evidence. This cuts both ways, though. If it were NOT kept in its current condition, Gibson's experts could not then examine it and produce reports that they believe the Gov't was wrong. (Gov't experts get first crack at examining the evidence, since they have the burden of proof.)

 

As for speedy trials, I addressed that upthread: it takes 2 to tango- if Gibson's attorneys weren't doing their jobs, this case would probably be over by now.

 

Gibson, like any other defendant, cannot be compelled to testify againdpst themselves. The government cannot make them say where any incriminating emails, memos, bank transfers or other electronic data may be found. The agents will have to sift through the gigabytes or terabytes of data themselves and find it (if it exists). Assuming all the word processing on a seized computer is as done as MS Word File, there are about 65k pages per gigabyte. Emails? About 100,000 emails per gig. Excel averages around 165k pages per gig. (And there are 1024 gigabytes per terabyte.)

 

So, how many computers were seized? How big were their drives? Were there CDRs, DVDs, flash drives and other removable data?

 

And ALL of that has to be looked at.

 

Then, the Gov't prosecutors will outline their case to the defendants. At that point, the defendant gets to go through all that data themselves to formulate their defense. One advantage for them- if the Gov't found any exculpatory evidence, they have to tell the defense what it was and where it is.

[Fumblyfingers]

Sure I understand that. An accused might pull all sorts of delay tactics. I also understand the evidence thing. What is infuriating to many is that if you couple this with other recent improprieties on the part of the US Gov., other stuff that people are upset about.......... it looks like the gov just doesn't give a damn and is walking all over everyone.

 

I mean....... you hear about statute of limitations. So it makes me wonder....in the case of "a right to a speedy trial", what is considered speedy....or more precisely, what constitutes overly slow?

 

I dunno, this is a subject that can get people hot. On one hand you have guitar players who love Gibson and are perhaps fiercely loyal, you have the environmental crowd who support the Lacey Act and then the socio-political side of it and everything in between.

 

But it seems to me the majority of people would like to see this come to some sort of a conclusion and in the not too distant future.

 

DannyA, I appreciate the balanced sensibility that comes through in your posts, you are obviously knowledgeable about the law and in general seem to have an even keel from what I have seen. Unfortunately, I am rather tweaked right now with what was said at me earlier (not by you of course)....... and as much as I would like to continue discussing this..... I am done with it for right now. I just didn't want to leave you hanging after you commented, quoting something I had said.

 

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The basic answer on speedy trials is this: the Supreme Court developed a four-part test in Barker v. Wingo (1972) that considers the length of the delay, the reasons for the delay, the defendant's assertion of his right to a speedy trial, and the prejudice to the defendant. A violation of the Speedy Trial Clause is cause for dismissal with prejudice of a criminal case.

 

So, the defendant has to assert that he had his 6th Amendment rights violated by not getting a speedy trial. Then the Court will examine length & reason for the delay. Then they will weigh the degree to which the defendant has been prejudiced by being scrutinized by law enforcement.

 

IOW, until Gibson files a motion in court regarding the 6th Amendment rights of its personnel in this case, the issue won't even crop up.

 

So why haven't they done so? Because on some level, the delay serves their purposes as well. It could be as simple as its taking them time to sort through things for their defense. It could also be that they're trying to win in the court of public opinion.

 

DannyA, I appreciate the balanced sensibility that comes through in your posts, you are obviously knowledgeable about the law and in general seem to have an even keel from what I have seen.

 

Thanks- its partly because I'm an entertainment lawyer. Even though I mostly just deal with contracts and almost never go to court, I had to learn all this stuff a long time ago...

 

Another part is that I'm in training to be a professional mediator. If I can't control myself and my tone, I'll be useless interceding between two parties who are at each others' throats.

 

Then, I'm naturally slow to anger...except with my Mom who really knows how to push my buttons when she wants to.

[A String]

Let's try to remember that folks have differing opinions. We aren't here to discuss and compare our political views. We are here to discuss our mutual love of music.

 

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