Yamaha CP-5

[Dave Bryce]

I got one of these a few days ago, and I am just loving it to bits. The action is great, it's easy to move around on (haven't had to crack the book yet), and it sounds totally killer. So far, the CFIIIS is more to my taste than the S6...but I'd gladly use either.

 

Anybody else using one?

 

dB

 

 

[Dana.]

it's easy to move around on (haven't had to crack the book yet)

Congrats on making everyone else who's tried to navigate it feel dumb.

[ProfD]

dB, please delete this thread as I've been thinking about replacing my Motif with one.

[Josh Paxton]

Congrats, and I'm glad you're digging it. But I gotta say...

 

it's easy to move around on (haven't had to crack the book yet)

 

You are the first person I've ever heard say anything other than the exact opposite of that. The non-intuitiveless of the interface was one reason why I stopped using mine. Other minor reasons included weight and physical bulk, but mainly it was the fact that while the CFIII was great, all the rest of the sounds failed to do it for me. Oh, and the CFIII sufferend noticeably when summed to mono.

 

Still, if it's working for you, then again I say congrats!

[Bobadohshe]

It's sick, right?

 

I would love one.

[Dave Bryce]

You are the first person I've ever heard say anything other than the exact opposite of that. The non-intuitiveless of the interface was one reason why I stopped using mine.

Really? Wow - it made sense to me right away. Hold down what you want to edit - Pre-amp, FX, PWR Amp - and push enter. Program buttons become quick access page buttons in edit mode. Knobs have a second layer at top level when you push them. That basically seems to let me do most of the tweaking and editing that I've wanted so far.

 

Maybe it's just that different interfaces make sense to different people.

 

Other minor reasons included weight and physical bulk

Yeah, it's a heavy bear for sure.

 

but mainly it was the fact that while the CFIII was great, all the rest of the sounds failed to do it for me.

I like the EPs and strings, and I use other things for clavs, organs, etc...so I didn't really dig into the other sounds. I really wanted this mainly for piano feel and sound, and I think it delivers in spades.

 

Oh, and the CFIII sufferend noticeably when summed to mono.

Interesting. At the risk of bringing the Wrath of Anker, I run in stereo...so I didn't check that. On anything I own.

 

dB

[Dave Ferris]

After switching over to the the Nord Piano for my gigs since Nov., my CP5 has literally sat in its case untouched. Just the other day I set the Yamaha up for grins and was just futzing around on it with phones. Man it blows the Nord away just from a playing experience, no comparison. I was pretty much used to the Nord and forgot how responsive and easy it was to get around on the CP5.

 

The S6 piano is pretty decent through phones or recorded, I don't think it fares all that well through speakers live though.

 

I still have it for sale but haven't been too pro-active about selling it. I was getting offers for $800-1000 on the LA CL so I basically said later for that.

 

This might be kinda nuts but I'm waiting for a friend in town, in fact the only guy I know that actually owns a CP1, to decide if he wants to sell it. I'm not sure I'd get much use out of it gigging around, I'm not sure why I even wanna go there except he mentioned a price that got my attention...and I'm a sucker for a great deal.

 

When I A/Bed the two last year down at Yamaha , there was quite a difference in the sound. So that's part of the reason I guess. Anyway I'd still have to sell mine first.

[Dana.]

I think where the CP5 really shines is the finger-to-sound connection. Playing the AP and EP sounds on that action is an experience unrivaled by any other stage piano or workstation, including Kronos and the V-Piano.

 

When I A/Bed the two last year down at Yamaha , there was quite a difference in the sound.

+1

 

The sound is better on the CP1 and it has better presets.

[Dave Bryce]

The sound is better on the CP1

The sound of what? The output level? Acoustic pianos? Electric pianos?

 

Obviously, the FM is better on the CP1.....

 

dB

[Dana.]

The sound of what? The output level? Acoustic pianos? Electric pianos?

 

Obviously, the FM is better on the CP1.....

As I think Dave Ferris was getting at, definitely the acoustic pianos. I can't say why exactly but I thought the same thing when I A/B'd the CP1 and the CP5 (with headphones). The CP1's pianos sounded more... refined?

 

The CP1 also has a few more variations on the CP80. Not a factor to kanker but maybe to others.

[Dave Bryce]

Interesting. I've never A/B'd them. I typically don't A/B things - I usually just judge them on their own merits.

 

I have played both though at different times, and think they're both excellent instruments. So far, nothing about the CP-5's pianos have left me wishing I had the CP-1.

 

dB

 

 

[Dana.]

I have played both though at different times, and think they're both excellent instruments.

No doubt about that.

 

I only A/B'd them because I had heard a demo of the CP1 that used sounds that I couldn't find in the CP5.

[johnchop]

I usually just judge them on their own merits.

 

Seriously, how do you get to 15,000+ posts doing that?

[Dave Ferris]

Perhaps it's the D/A converters, a higher quality chip ? (Wow if Jim Williams were here, he'd say $2500 more for a $79.95 chip ?!!) In any case the CP5 CF Grand sounded like it had a blanket over the speakers in comparison to the 1.

 

Also there is an extra pre-amp stage in the CP1-I'm not sure that affects the AP CF sounds but from what I was told the EPs benefit more from this extra stage.

 

I didn't spend a lot of time *there*-but from just a cursory comparison the EPs sounded fuller, had more resonance and just a darker more flattering quality to them..

 

Bush had the CP1 and did extensive programming on it. He's obviously better qualified then me to speak about the technical end of things. I just always go with my ears.

 

I'm not even sure you'd hear all of this live, especially going through a pair of musical instrument speakers. In the studio, within the context of classical/jazz/lyrical solo piano or jazz trio I think the difference would be fairly noticeable to the more discerning ear.

 

Bottom line, they both are very good-the best I've found for a portable (semi maybe) acoustic piano substitution.

[burningbusch]

What you really need to do is to set them up the same and run them through the same MIDI file, recording the output. Then slice it up so you hear a few seconds of the CP-1 followed by the CP-5 with the same phrase and so on. You need to have the comparisons back-to-back and only a few seconds in duration. I don't trust in store demos for something this, IMO, subtle. Even a few decibles in volume difference can translate to a perceived difference in tone (and response if you're playing it live).

 

I had the CP-1 for about a year and have played the CP-5 on several occasions. I am skeptical of a meaningful difference. I am much more skeptical that any difference is worth 2x the money.

 

We had a similar discussion in the past regarding the Rhodes on the Motif sounding different between the 1st edition and the ES. Here's a file I made. Can you hear any difference?

 

Motif vs. Motif ES (Rhodes)

 

Dave, congrats on the CP-5. Did you find the additional banks of presets/users without looking at the manual?

 

Busch.

[kanker.]

Oh, and the CFIII sufferend noticeably when summed to mono.

Interesting. At the risk of bringing the Wrath of Anker, I run in stereo...so I didn't check that. On anything I own.

Yeah, pretty much the only reason I didn't get one is the crappy mono summing. The Rhodes and Wurly freaking kill. It's a shame Yamaha didn't bother to take mono into account.

[AnotherScott]

We had a similar discussion in the past regarding the Rhodes on the Motif sounding different between the 1st edition and the ES. Here's a file I made. Can you hear any difference?

 

Motif vs. Motif ES (Rhodes)

I wonder if maybe the velocity scaling of the keyboards was slightly different between the two models. That would make them appear to sound different in actual playing, in a way that a MIDI file would not reveal.

[mikecorbett]

What you really need to do is to set them up the same and run them through the same MIDI file, recording the output. Then slice it up so you hear a few seconds of the CP-1 followed by the CP-5 with the same phrase and so on. You need to have the comparisons back-to-back and only a few seconds in duration. I don't trust in store demos for something this, IMO, subtle. Even a few decibles in volume difference can translate to a perceived difference in tone (and response if you're playing it live).

 

I had the CP-1 for about a year and have played the CP-5 on several occasions. I am skeptical of a meaningful difference. I am much more skeptical that any difference is worth 2x the money.

 

We had a similar discussion in the past regarding the Rhodes on the Motif sounding different between the 1st edition and the ES. Here's a file I made. Can you hear any difference?

 

Motif vs. Motif ES (Rhodes)

 

Dave, congrats on the CP-5. Did you find the additional banks of presets/users without looking at the manual?

 

Busch.

 

I recently compared my M06 with my Motif XS . No difference in sounds that had the same name... I mean no difference. Scary, cause there probably is no difference I reckon in certain sounds between the original Motif and the Motif XF , 4 generations later!

[mikecorbett]

and to answer your question, I can hear no difference between the Es and the original in the sample you posted.

[Josh Paxton]

I had the CP-1 for about a year and have played the CP-5 on several occasions. I am skeptical of a meaningful difference.

 

As am I. See this thread for my reasons.

[Dana.]

As am I. See this thread for my reasons.

But you were comparing boards that had different actions. The CP1 and CP5 have the same action, so a comparison between the two removes the psychology from the equation.

[Dave Bryce]

Dave, congrats on the CP-5. Did you find the additional banks of presets/users without looking at the manual?

If you mean Pre/Usr 1, 2 and 3...yep. Nice idea to use the tri-colored LED to indicate those banks.

 

The unit I got did not come with a manual, so I haven't seen it at all.

 

dB

[Josh Paxton]

But you were comparing boards that had different actions. The CP1 and CP5 have the same action, so a comparison between the two removes the psychology from the equation.

 

Ah, I had forgotten that the 1 and the 5 had identical actions. In that case you're right. As you were then.

[Bill H.]

I just checked in to start a CP-5 thread and here this one is already! How about that?

 

One popped up fairly locally and I'm thinking about picking it up for use in a praise band.

 

My questions (if I may to Dave or anyone else):

 

Some reviews mention that the notes of the CF grand are characterized by short decays followed by static loops. Any truth in that, and how noticeable is it?

 

How editable are the other sounds? Can you access filter and envelope settings? Can you bring layers in real time over the pianos? (This feature would be very important for this app.)

 

What is a good used price? The guy is asking $1700 but I really can't justify paying that for a volunteer outfit. It's been listed for at least a couple of weeks so I imagine that there will be some wiggle room.

 

It's a couple of hours away so I can't just run down the street to try it out.

 

Mono is n/a. We are proudly stereo, and the sound system is a permanent install that takes full advantage of that.

 

Edit: The wooden action is a big selling point - and not just for me. We get guest piano players in from time to time and it would make them feel more comfortable and at home.

[Dave Bryce]

Bill -

 

Haven't heard any short decays or loops at all. No idea what that's about.

Not sure about filters or envelopes, but I haven't gone looking for them.

Layers in real time - yes.

Used price - no clue.

 

dB

[Dave Ferris]

Can you bring layers in real time over the pianos? (This feature would be very important for this app.)

 

What is a good used price? The guy is asking $1700 but I really can't justify paying that for a volunteer outfit. It's been listed for at least a couple of weeks so I imagine that there will be some wiggle room.

 

 

Yeah it's real easy to bring in layered sounds/pads/ string or control the volume of splits via the dedicated knobs on the left side panel.

 

I had mine listed on CL for $1700. Only had one real serious inquiry in about a month, the rest were low ballers like I mentioned earlier.

 

I said I'd sell to a Kcer for $1600 + ship or local pickup on my ad here. I think $1700 is reasonable since even my connect's best price is just a tad under 2K + ship.

 

If you can get it for $1600 I'd think that would be a pretty good deal, depending of course what kind of shape it's in.

[Mark Schmieder]

I think what stumped many of us wasn't the editing, but actual patch selection beyond the basic voices. I had to bring a printout of a section of the manual with me to the store so I could access enough sounds to actually evaluate the overall sound set.

 

I suppose most buy it just for acoustic and electric pianos though, and don't bother trying to have it replace a ROMpler for gigging duties.

 

Glad to hear that patch editing itself is easy, at least. I didn't get around to trying that, other than for the usual of turning off reverb/effects and applying EQ to each patch.

 

This one is still on my radar, but by now I am hoping for a Summer 2012 update that will be available in September.

[Pale]

Another CP5 owner here! I've been enjoying the board for 2 months now.

The first time I played it I had trouble navigating through dreadful user interface. I have to adjust my stand - now I think the user interface is ok. There is a learning curve you have to master but after that it's easy. I admit there is a bit more button pushing than on some other keyboards, but it's fast and logical (once you are in the CP5 mindset).

 

As for filter/envelope settings - there is a dinamic filter "effect" in the effect and amp section (so you can actually assign 2 filters to the same sound) with attack, decay and some other parameters. It doesn't really respond the way you would expect, but it does offer some tweaks to your basic sounds. Btw, effect section is pretty cool, there is really a lot of different effects with loads of parameters to tweak. I still did not manage to go deep into sound editing since I was always more player than tweaker. But if you want to tweak you can tweak all day long.

 

One thing I didn't expect to be useful is the audio input. I have found it super useful and I am using it on a daily basis. I always have my Zoom H4N or my smartphone connected, so I can play with recordings/mp3s/youtube (btw, HTC Desire fits perfectly in the CP5's screen depression). I also use it as a microphone input for the gigs where I do backing vocals. Local volume control is pretty useful thing. Unfortunately, that input is MONO. So don't count on listening to stereo recordings through that input.

 

Both pianos work for me. At first I though that the S6 was rubbish and CF was superb. I'm digging the S6 more and more, especially after figuring out which EQ tweaks make it work. I can't really describe it, but the CF piano is more present,brighter while the S6 is more woody, mellow sounding piano. I have also found that the S6 sounds superb one day, while it doesn't sound good at all the other day (same settings!). It's kind of mood dependant, while the CF usually sounds good all the time. Anyway, I dig both of them.

 

I can't speak a lot about live gigs,I've only done a couple of live gigs with CP5 - I couldn't find a bag/case that would match my car size and weight/price/quality demands. I have found 1-2 bags that would be a good choice, but all shops around here are out of stock and won't be restocking them for a month or two. So I had to borrow a bag for a few occasions, and do the rest of the gigs with the old gear. I'm still trying to find a proper bag (hard case is not an option due to weight), so if you have a good recommendation please do recommend.

[Dave Bryce]

Still haven't looked at the book, and I'm now moving around on the sound programming levels pretty easily. I really like having such quick access to multiple layers - I'm a fan of sound stacking.

 

I'm pleasantly surprised by the quality of the strings and analog brass sounds I can get out of the CP-5. Fat, full and very playable...and yes, I did find the filter/cutoff and resonance parameters.

 

I really like this instrument. Given my style of playing, my hands and ears really seem to be in tune with it.

 

dB

[dazzjazz]

I would have bought one if the interface was logical.

It will interesting to see what the next series from Yamaha has - they should take a few lessons from Nord in the interface dept. I still remember their first sampler in the late 80s - no-one could figure that out!