To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 All that Lee Michaels talk made me think... Anyone here doing something like that? No prog or jazz rock stuff... But a more regular kind of band, with vocals and stuff, covers and originals... Some kind of 70´s rock raw sound with a soul/funky blues edge is the initial idea... Would be myself on Hammond Organ, Wurlitzer and Clavinet sounds (coming from a Nord Electro 2 and a Juno Stage, probably played through a tube amp or amp sim)... joined by the Mrs on vocals and some percussion (she has a nice Susan Tedeschi/Early Tina Turner mixed kind of voice)... and some yet to be found bassist and drummer with no fear to step in, stretch out and fill the sonic pallete that would be filled by the 6 stringer... Why no guitars? Aside the obvious reasons, of course... Never had the oportunity to really stretch out, not worrying to step on the guitar player toes... and thought it would be a nice differential to the band, transforming limitations into oportunities to make things sound different... and endless space to jam, explore textures and dynamics... Don´t want to fall on the obvious pit and sounding simply like a band that put aside the guitar parts... So, any ideas and experiences to avoid one-dimensionality are more than welcome... Feel free to join and share your thoughts about it... Anything counts... tips, rig sugestions, set list, the pros, the cons and stuff like that... My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenS Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Everything will sounds better! Tighter,cleaner and no one suggests Longtrain running, Proud Mary and Mustang Sally! Gratulations! ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=043BX14hFb4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 That´s the stuff... My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 In the late 80's, going with no guitar was a setup we would use some. I played keys and guitar. Our Sax player played keys. For some songs we went without guitar and used 2 keyboard players or I would play keys and and the other guy would focus on Sax, generally an instrument tune. But, I would have never have considered doing that for a entire night. Personally I would forego a bassist (something I have done a lot) before not using a guitar but keyboard technology had improved a lot and maybe it is more doable today. Maybe it would be worth considering how many mouths you are willing to feed then get the best people you can find to fill that number of slots. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 More personal enjoyment than mouths to feed in my case and in the case of that idea... Losing the bass player and making the left hand work would be an option, my first thought,.. But losing the guitar turned to be a more adventurous and bold idea... at least in my head... Maybe with the help of tube amplification, overdrive and stuff, the sonic spaces are filled... [video:youtube] [video:youtube] My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I did it in a show band in the mid 70s. We had bass, drums, trumpet, bone, female singer, and keys. We didn't particularly change our set list based on not having guitar. I played prominent guitar rhythm parts on clavinet. With 2 horn players, there was no shortage of volunteers to do solos. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StartRun Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 ...do it. I did in the early 70's, with Hammond, Mini, & EP. Look at some Brian Auger YouTube material; his band features a lineup like you're going to be working with. One thing-when hiring your bass player and drummer, vocals would help in addition to your female singer. As far as your own playing, do not let the word "limitation" or "compromise" enter your mind-this is any REAL keyboardists' calling; make the most of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah... I think the thing is to find the middle ground of filling the sonic space that would be filled by the guitar (a not shy bass player with an octave pedal would help that too), but also finding my own voice, while not falling on that Billy Joel organ duo "I can be as agressive as any guitarrist" from the 70´s kind of sound... My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 that Billy Joel organ duo "I can be as agressive as any guitarrist" from the 70´s kind of sound... Attila!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [video:youtube] Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I don't know, man. I like the idea a lot but it all depends on what type of rock you want to play. We all know ELP, Triumvirat, VDGG did a great job without the need of a guitar player, but if you're not as good with your left hand as you are with your right, it can leave a big gap in the music, as you'll be doing most of the rhythm and lead parts, if not all. Have you considered a Violinist or Sax player? it'd open a whole new world of possibilities and you wouldn't have to carry that heavy of a burden. Anyways, what i can do is recommend you some guitarless rock bands : Clonk Edit : Since you're looking for that 70's sound, from that list i recommend : Quartermass, Aardvark, Attila, Eden, Hax Cel and Supersister. Check them out on youtube. "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The clip above is really good, and probably close to the sound you are going for. Probably not what you are looking for, but this is my favourite modern no-guitar-key-fronted band The Crash Kings - http://crashkingsmusic.com/: [video:youtube] I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 As a guitarist, I can say that I don't blame you for wanting to do music without one us for a change...... "All the obvious reasons" don't apply 100% to everyone all the time, however.... food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmathews Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I did it in the late 70's ....really fun... We faced the keyboard setups (on risers) from each side twords the middle and opened the drum kit up so the audience could see everyone playing and reacting to each other. I thinks folks sometimes forget the visual component...just a thought! Oh yea...CP 70, mini moog on one side... Rhodes, Hammond, Korg synth(?) and mini moog on the other. Folks in the crowd were playing "air-keyboards"...looked like a zombie flick from stage...funny stuff. I'll post pic's if I can find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 As a guitarist, I can say that I don't blame you for wanting to do music without one us for a change...... "All the obvious reasons" don't apply 100% to everyone all the time, however.... food for thought. Of course that it does not apply to all of you six stringers... I played with some real good, generous ones... Much of my favorite music is guitar music, I don´t have guitar envy... But the good six stringers at least in my area, seems to be taken... And yeah... put that together with "why not make something different?" and you can understand what the major reasons are... No hard feelings My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbL18fupPv8&feature=related [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Zy1MecH9Q&feature=related [video:youtube] (There's a guitar in this song but you can barely hear it) [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot3hkfZh0K8&feature=related "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Oh yeah man... plenty of material on the hard/prog side... I even know and like some of those bands you linked... But I´d like to know more refferences on the Lee Michaels-more-basic-bluesier-groovier kind of sound, you know? By the way, long time we don´t talk, my brazillian friend, how are things? My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 no one suggests Longtrain running, Proud Mary and Mustang Sally! Um... Ew? If all your guitar auditioners "suggest" those dusty old turds, it's probably time to quit advertising for a guitar player position in the local nursing home. Anyway, back on topic... Congrats on your jumping out into new combinations of instruments. I suggest a heavy dose of Procol Harum as a change of pace, which was almost always dominated by the keys, not the guitar, in addition to your regular funk/R&B stuff. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusker Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Sounds dreamy ;-) Guitarists are regularly a challenge for me, in fact, we're auditioning a handful of them next week. I've toyed with your idea but can't bring myself to do it. Best of luck! Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusker Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'd agree with two of the three, but I still mostly enjoy Longtrain. Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Thanks for the inputs so far, guys... The idea is to make it sound big, raw and open to jamming like those classic funkier power trios of the 70´s (James Gang, Grand Funk, Band Of Gipsies era-Hendrix, stuff like that) but with classic vintage keyboard sounds running the things instead of the guitar, taking benefits of the different sounds and stuff that keyboards allow... That and some Sly and The Family, Ike nad Tina Funky approach both to vocals and instrumentation... Beggining to like that more and more... What about some tips to make things not sounding "hey, busted! they just pulled out the guitar parts out!"... Permanent left hand on a dirty clav/wurly/hammond sound acting as rhythm guitar while the right handles the leads and fills? What more? keep it coming! My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Oh yeah man... plenty of material on the hard/prog side... I even know and like some of those bands you linked... But I´d like to know more refferences on the Lee Michaels-more-basic-bluesier-groovier kind of sound, you know? By the way, long time we don´t talk, my brazillian friend, how are things? Good, man. Apart from the never-ending insomnia, can't complain. How about you? Tell you what, i'll take a look at my records when i get home, i might have some obscure 70's rock band with a funkier edge cause i'm sure you know all the funk big names. In the meantime, i remembered this, since you mentioned someone will be playing percussion : [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRC9gB-1nPY "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Hey CK, good man! Try to close your eyes, generally it´s the starting point to get some sleep!! Smart ass coments aside, great band on that video, I can see we incorporating some of those latin elements on our (to be) sound! Keep them coming! What about more ideas on set list? New approaches to well known songs, things like that... My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Hey CK, good man! Try to close your eyes, generally it´s the starting point to get some sleep!! Smart ass coments aside, great band on that video, I can see we incorporating some of those latin elements on our (to be) sound! Keep them coming! What about more ideas on set list? New approaches to well known songs, things like that... I wish it was that easy Do a Tim Maia cover (Mas sério, cara, quando chegar em casa te mando algumas coisas brasileiras dos anos 60/70, tem o lado pesado do rock/psicodelia com o funk e o soul. Não sei se tu é familiar com essas bandas brasileiras esquecidas, mas com certeza vai te dar mta ideia pra new approaches, além da pegada e groove diferente que não se encontra em nenhum outro lugar do mundo. ) "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why no guitars? Aside the obvious reasons, of course... Never had the oportunity to really stretch out, not worrying to step on the guitar player toes... and thought it would be a nice differential to the band, transforming limitations into oportunities to make things sound different... and endless space to jam, explore textures and dynamics... I've put together guitar-less duos and trios, but It was usually because no good guitar players were available (not wanting to settle for the drunk egotistical blasters that characterize the position 90% of the time). I think you might have a tough time signing on a bass and drummer for your reasons - unless you're an absolutely killer player. You just approach material on a song-by-song basis and find solutions. The set list was populated by a lot more Billy Joel and Elton John than usual but we'd hit a little guitar-centric stuff too - just without the guitar. Reaction from people was mostly positive (maybe because it was quieter) with the exception of guitar players of course. And most of them were trying to convince us it sounded bad because they were looking for a gig. If you were doing current pop and Top 40 it would be easy to do without a guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I know, top 40 or piano rock singer songwriter stuff would be easier without the strat handlers... but if we liked our things easy, we wouldn´t play those damn keyboards, would we?? I´d like my sound rare with a little blood, thanks! My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Hey CK, good man! Try to close your eyes, generally it´s the starting point to get some sleep!! Smart ass coments aside, great band on that video, I can see we incorporating some of those latin elements on our (to be) sound! Keep them coming! What about more ideas on set list? New approaches to well known songs, things like that... I wish it was that easy Do a Tim Maia cover (Mas sério, cara, quando chegar em casa te mando algumas coisas brasileiras dos anos 60/70, tem o lado pesado do rock/psicodelia com o funk e o soul. Não sei se tu é familiar com essas bandas brasileiras esquecidas, mas com certeza vai te dar mta ideia pra new approaches, além da pegada e groove diferente que não se encontra em nenhum outro lugar do mundo. ) Oh yeah, send it please... A.K.A "É Nóis, cara!" My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If you are talking rare, and raw, and guitar player edgy, just without a guitar, check out the clip of crash kings above, and other clips from the same band. Fuzzy bass, clav with a bender-bar somehow modded on, and other various vintage instruments. I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Thinking a little bit of that: [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vs1UQzt5KY&feature=related Mixed with some of that: [video:youtube] And this, with a similar arrangement, but with vocals... [video:youtube] The same with that, plus vocals, and maybe a more agressive Electric Piano... [video:youtube] And along with some originals (still not formated, but already in my head) a bit of customized arrangements for some of the keyboard heavy staples like Hush, Feeling Allright, Gimme Some Lovin, Superstition, and stuff alike... Just to start... What about that so far?? More to add?? Any ideas or opinions about versions of guitar heavy tunes, re arranged to keys?? Thinking of this kind of approach, keys-wise... (nice arrangement of a guitar tune, too): [video:youtube] My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hookie Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 This may not be too realistic, but what the hay, you were looking for input! IF you could find a bass player who played guitar, I'd add the guitar in about 2 songs a set just to keep it more fresh. BUT, I don't know many guitar players who would be willing to blow bass for most of the night, nor do I know any bass players that can play a decent guitar. But, you never know. Or, like someone else said, maybe add a second keyboard to help with more rhythm that you'd lose without guitar? Your idea sounds great - good luck! Yamaha C2, Yamaha MODX7, Hammond SK1, Hammond XK-5 Heritage Pro System, Korg Kronos 2 61, Yamaha CP4, Kurzweil PC4-7, Nord Stage 3 73, Nord Wave 2, QSC 8.2, Motion Sound KP 210S, Key Largo, etc…yeah I have too much… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottasin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Ben Folds Five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.