Kurzweil PC3K series now complete

[Aidan]

76 and 61 key variants now up on the Kurzweil website

[Dana.]

Are these replacing the PC3X? I noticed online retailers (Sweetwater, MF, etc.) aren't selling it.

[johnchop]

D-Bon,

 

Effectively, yes.

 

You may be able to find PC3X/PC3/PC361 B-stock units around (often at a huge discount).

 

It's the LE series or the K series being sold new now.

 

-John

[Dana.]

John, thanks.

[frogmonkey]

I'm a little sad that I jumped on the PC3x train so quick. I'm only now starting to use it with any regularity, and it's great but it would be so much better if only you could load your own...

[Polkahero]

Sigh, if only they would have made the 76-version with weighted action. . .Guess I'll keep my Alesis QS8 with my PC2R setup for now.

[AnotherScott]

Sigh, if only they would have made the 76-version with weighted action.

You can't keep everyone happy. People complain that Kurzweil's "mid-size" isn't weighted, people complain that Korg's mid-size Kronos is. I don't think anyone has made a line that includes a 61-key unweighted, and 88-key weighted, and a pair of 70-somethings with the two weights in between. And even if they did, people would still wish they could get a 61-key weighted or an 88-key unweighted...

 

Anyway, the answer would be to get whatever 76 or 88 key weighted board you like, and put a 61-key PC3K on the second tier, and have everything you want!

[JeffLearman]

Right, Scott, unless what you want is the Kurz for the weighted board and something like NE for the unweighted one.

 

I wish they had a 76-key weighted board too. But it seems that we 76-key weighted fans are in the minority, since most 76-key boards aren't hammer action. PC1SE was the last Kurz made that way, I believe. The Kronos is the exception rather than the rule.

 

Fortunately there are now some 88-key hammer action boards that are shorter and lighter than my 50 lb, 52-inch 76-key MR76.

[AnotherScott]

Right, Scott, unless what you want is the Kurz for the weighted board and something like NE for the unweighted one.

No problem. Get the 61-key Kurz, and the NE3HP. Connect each keyboard's MIDI IN to the other keyboard's MIDI OUT. Set each keyboard for "Local Off". Now you have all the sounds you want, triggering the Kurz sounds from the weighted board and the NE sounds from the unweighted one. Essentially, you now have a 73-key weighted Kurz and a 61-key unweighted Nord, no? (You probably also have to disable sending Program Change over MIDI, unless Local Off does that too, I don't remember...)

[JeffLearman]

OK, send me the money. I already have an NE2, btw. Also, simpler is better: I'd rather not play each keyboard through the opposite keyboard and do the extra mental gymnastics for patch management. Bottom line: lack of a 76-key weighted model pushes the PC3 series down considerably on the list of replacements for the MR76.

 

Yes, there's a solution if you really want to make it work. But no, it's not necesarily the best solution if you're not committed to getting a Kurz.

[AnotherScott]

Yes, there's a solution if you really want to make it work. But no, it's not necesarily the best solution if you're not committed to getting a Kurz.

I think it's a pretty good solution if you're committed to getting a Kurz, but a pretty bad one if you have some other unweighted board you want to keep using. ;-)

 

[JeffLearman]

That sums it up pretty well. :-D

[J. Dan]

This threatens to be yet another delay in my new rig. The PC3K7 was originally what I wanted, then while waiting for the 76 key to come out, the Kronos came out. Settled for the 61 key because the 73 was fully weighted. Canceled order due to backlog and was going tomorrow to buy one in stock in south Chicago. This announcement gave me pause. But I think I'll still move ahead with the Kronos for a few reasons:

1). Given that it's just been added, I'm guessing it would take a while to get one in my hands

2) prefer Kronos user interface

3) setlist mode on the Kronos

 

Pros for the pc3k

1) deep programming and flexible mod/controller routings etc

2) 76-key semi weighted

3) shorter (I presume) load time

 

Plus, I've never owned a Kurz, but have owned a triton, cx3, and Polysix, so I'm thinking there will be little learning curve on the Kronos compared to the PC3K.

[Aidan]

Load time shorter for sure, Dan, but I think you're right - if these are just appearing now on the Kurz website, there's going to be a fair lead-in before they hit the stores.

[AnotherScott]

But I think I'll still move ahead with the Kronos for a few reasons:

1). Given that it's just been added, I'm guessing it would take a while to get one in my hands

2) prefer Kronos user interface

3) setlist mode on the Kronos

 

Pros for the pc3k

1) deep programming and flexible mod/controller routings etc

2) 76-key semi weighted

3) shorter (I presume) load time

 

Some other Kurz advantages:

* $500 cheaper

* 7 1/2 lbs lighter

* more controller inputs (2 foot pedals instead of 1, 3 foot switches instead of 2, breath controller input)

 

and although it doesn't have the cool Set List feature, its Quick Access feature is about half way there... it allows you to create multiple pages of one-button access sounds, with the labels for those buttons visible in the LCD display.

 

Some other Korg advantages:

* better piano, organ, and EP sounds (at least IMO)

* far more user sampling capability (more RAM available; SSD storage for quick loading of different sound sets)

[J. Dan]

Some other Kurz advantages:

* $500 cheaper

Yes, but I'm willing to pay for features that are worth it

* 7 1/2 lbs lighter

not enough of a difference to concern me

* more controller inputs (2 foot pedals instead of 1, 3 foot switches instead of 2, breath controller input)

While this is cool, right now I'm not using anything more than sustain pedals. Maybe if I had it, I'd find a nice use like leslie control, switching patches, etc. But I prefer not to have any more pedals under my feet than necessary - keep it simple.

and although it doesn't have the cool Set List feature, its Quick Access feature is about half way there... it allows you to create multiple pages of one-button access sounds, with the labels for those buttons visible in the LCD display.

I've heard this but never been able to play with it since nobody around here carries Kurz and I don't know anybody with one. But is that just for sounds, or can you mix combinations and sequences? I like that in the Kronos I can mix and match patches, combis, and sequences in the same set list, and hold out a sound while switching to the next.

Some other Korg advantages:

* better piano, organ, and EP sounds (at least IMO)

Unlike most of you, this isn't that big of a deal for me. VA/Synth sounds are the biggest. Just about any modern workstation will have adequate piano/EP/Organ for what I do - although of these, organ is the most important, and since I have a CX3, I think I'll like the CX3 engine in the Kronos.

* far more user sampling capability (more RAM available; SSD storage for quick loading of different sound sets)

The more samples I can load at once, the better - I want to load all the samples I'll ever need and not worry about needing a sample that's not loaded. Although it doesn't sound like the Kurz needs to "preload" like the Kronos, which is nice...sounds like if you turn it off and back on, the samples are there. But as long as I can load everything I need automatically on power-up (during that 2 min boot), I should be fine.

[humannoyed]

I thought I read somewhere that the action on the PCK6 was going to be different than the one on the PC361, but they are listed as the same under specs - TP9. Is that already upgraded from Kurz's early 61 key actions that some of you complained about?

[Aidan]

Dan, re: QA mode on the Kurz, you can mix programs and combis and it does implement patch remain, though on my LE7, because, I suspect of its reduced effects processing power, you do get a "bump".

 

Hummanoyed, I'm pretty sure all the actions on the K series are as per the original PC3 line. The added sampling and wooden end blocks are, I believe, the only difference.

[johnchop]

Hummanoyed, I'm pretty sure all the actions on the K series are as per the original PC3 line. The added sampling and wooden end blocks are, I believe, the only difference.

 

Also a USB port for storage, in lieu of hard-to-find xD cards.

[Aidan]

Ah yes, you're right there, John. Forgot about that!

[Delaware Dave]

Bottom line: lack of a 76-key weighted model pushes the PC3 series down considerably on the list of replacements for the MR76.

I have to respectfully disagree. The semi-weighted keyboard of the PC3 is a light action piano board that allows both the playing of piano and organ. I play in a classic/southern rock band where I am emulating Billy Powell's piano and John Lord's organ playing. I find I can do both on the PC3 because the semi-weighted keyboard allows me to do this. Did it take some getting use to? absolutely, but I've had the keyboard now for about 6 weeks and am completely use to the action. Previously I was using a hammer action 88 (for piano) and a synth action 76 key (for organ). I think that the PC3's semi-weighted keyboard is a good compromise. I also gigged with a TS-12 for years which had a similar hammer action to the MR76.

[Al Coda]

Also a USB port for storage, in lieu of hard-to-find xD cards.

 

Not hard to find !

Olympus xD M+ 1GB works for storage and bootloader.

I payed EUR 13.- for these incl. shipping and can get as many I want new,- @ebay.

So, if someone doesn´t need sample format compatibiliy w/ .krz files and isn´t into loading own samples and creating his own sample maps, there´s no need to buy a PC3K model.

Actually, the price difference between a PC3 and PC3K is huge.

Buying a PC361, PC3 or PC3X now results in getting 99% of the PC3K functionality and sound for cheap.

 

A.C.

[johnchop]

Fair enough Al! Although not so much readily available at your corner market, as SD cards can be, but... point taken.

[Al Coda]

Fair enough Al! Although not so much readily available at your corner market, as SD cards can be, but... point taken.

 

You´re right, you don´t get any xD cards in the next shop, but entering "xD M+ 1GB" @ebay comes up w/ these in a second.

M+ 1GB is a common format up today, I can buy ´em in larger hardware stores here, but found it easier if the cards come into my home directly and for the same price.

Anyway ...

 

The handling of the xD cards w/ PC3 models is flawless and easy as it is w/ a USB storage device and I also have no probs to swap data between my computer and the PC3 using a very cheap USB card reader and using USB directly is also an option.

 

I really think, if someone wants a Kurzweil NOW, grabbing a PC361, evtl. buying the new ROM and waiting for the upcoming 88keys flagship is the best option.

With some luck, it will be introduced at next NAMM or Musikmesse already.

Keeping the PC361 and combining w/ any new Kurz or other brand 88 keyboard for me seems to be easier than selling a PC3x or PC3K8 for a new 88-keys KURZ flagship p.ex..

 

A.C.

[MikeT156]

I can't help think that the current workstations when compared to the Kronos are "old technology". The PC3k is two generations removed from the Kronos from what I can see, The Motif XF is one generation removed.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

Mike T.

[Dana.]

The workstation concept, in and of itself, is old technology.

[Al Coda]

I can't help think that the current workstations when compared to the Kronos are "old technology". The PC3k is two generations removed from the Kronos from what I can see, The Motif XF is one generation removed.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

Mike T.

 

I don´t think so.

Kurzweil PC3K is different technology than Kronos or Motif XF.

All use flash memory,- SSD is flash memory too, but different sizes.

Kurzweil uses unique MARA DSPs for calculations, Kronos uses Intel Atom and Motif uses something I don´t know, but AFAIK Yamaha makes their own chips too and since decades.

 

I don´t know whether Kurzweil ever had in mind to stream samples from a drive or not, but if not, that doesn´t mean their technology is old.

 

Even the concept of Kronos is "old" because it´s nearly the same concept of the OASYS w/ the exception using a SSD instead of a standard harddrive and the Atom dual core instead of a Pentium 4.

There´s a bit more CPU power now, allowing more calculations and implementation of more and better algorhythms, but that´s also the case w/ the PC3K and the Motif XF compared to their forerunners.

 

Sample content and sample playback technology could be discussed, but also sampling is old technology in general.

 

The future is modelling,- and we don´t know what´s already in the pipeling from Yamaha and Kurzweil.

They don´t sleep.

 

A.C.

[MikeT156]

Somehow, I don't get a rise out of a triple strike piano anymore. The Kronos Pianos are so much richer and dynamic sounding. But there's a lot more to a complete KB than pianos. The small screen on the Kurzweil and Yamaha's don't do much for me either.

 

 

Mike T.

[TechEverlasting]

I love the PC3K8, I think it's by far the best solution for demanding live performance situations such as musical theater. When playing live the Korg's long boot-up time could be a big deal, the PC3K8 is ready to play with everything loaded 15 seconds after powering up.

 

Having said that it's important to understand that the sample memory in the PC3Ks is a much different animal from the RAM used in the Kronos and most other hardware samplers. While samples do not vanish when power goes off, they do not save or load quickly. Saving a 128 MB sample bank in a PC3K8 can take well over an hour, and loading such a bank can take 45 minutes. Even smaller sample sets can take five to ten minutes to load. Basically you are never going to load different samples during a gig with this beast. You'll design your perfect 128 MB bank of samples and stay with it. The excellent ROM samples and powerful VAST and KDFX processing will let you get plenty of variations.

 

Also, while the Kronos offers a lot more RAM sample space, the Kurzweil K2s offer decades of excellent sample libraries designed for this format that are ready to load and play. To me the quality of the available libraries is a lot more important than the amount of available space.

[MikeT156]

128MG seems so archaic. Even a GB of RAM seems too small.

 

However, I have to agree that the seemingly endless number of sample libraries available for the Kurzweil can be a lot to chew on.

 

Waiting a hour for a sample bank to save is exactly what I mean about it being old technology. That was the kind of performance we use to see in the dark ages.

 

How often do you need to change your sample library for musical theater?

 

 

Mike T.