SteveC Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 So we're trying to get a new band together and I was wondering about some song choices and general direction. We had all met and talked months ago and shared some song ideas and that's where it sat for a while. One of the guys - the default leader I guess - sent a set list. I didn't really care for it as it was all 80's (like we had talked about earlier) but when I saw it I thought I'd rather do a more broad range of songs. I threw together a little list and sent it to everyone. It still included at least 1/2 the tunes from the set list that was sent. A couple guys responded that they thought it was good. Move ahead a couple emails and I am inciting mutiny and f'ing up his vision, his dream, his band. What I intended was to find out if I was the only one feeling this way and if so, I was going to respectfully bow out of the project. So by trying to be open, up front and honest, I single handedly wrecked the band. I have played with these guys off and on for over 10 years. I play with 2 of them in a jazz quartet right now - or at least I think I still do. I thought we were WAY passed this. Was I wrong? I'm really ready to just hang it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingertalkin Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 What I intended was to find out if I was the only one feeling this way and if so, I was going to respectfully bow out of the project. So why don't you say this to the leader? How do you sign a computer screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geoff Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 ...... I am inciting mutiny and f'ing up his vision, his dream, his band. . And is it? When we start a band, we talk out at the beginning if this band will be a democracy or a 'leader'. Leader will listen to all points of view, but will make the decisions. In a democracy, everyone has a vote. In my experience democracies don't generally last too long. Personally, I've found that the 'Leader' model works well providing everyone understands that once or twice a year we're all going to get our toes stood on, but it's worth it for the organisation & accumulation of wealth!!! G. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music The Geoff - blame Caevan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Fhtagn Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 ... and just NOW it's apparent that the "default leader" is a head case? Question: How bad do you want to be in this project? Are you willing to "go along to get along"? It's out in the open, now. "His dream, his band". If you can't get your head around it, then bow out gracefully. If this becomes a train wreck, the other musicians will seek you out. As far as the quartet ... you don't state if this "visionary" is in the quartet or not. If he is, it's toast. It's likely that one won't separate from the other. There's a lot of people on unemployment or hanging out at open nic nites that suffer from "open and honest" syndrome. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 I wouldn't say head case at all. We have played together just fine in more than a couple other groups. I don't know what will happen to the project. I know I am out. As for the jazz quartet - I don't know that either. He is the leader/keyboard player - which works fine in that group as we are all on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 You were right. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Fhtagn Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Obviously, I'm not getting it. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'm just confused that by trying to be upfront and honest, I am the bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Not right. It's the nature of e-mail for people to read into it things that aren't there, and ignore things that are there. Use the damn phone. Call'em all up and clear the air. It shouldn't be this way. But it is. Get used to it. Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Well, regardless I won't be in this band I would guess. Email ain't great, but I was trying to communicate to 4 other people - I guess I could have conference called.... I don't know. Maybe what I need is a break for a while. Put the shit away and see how much I miss it. Keep my little mini stack and 44-02...just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Your mistake was to alter HIS setlist and remove tunes. This is obviously seen as a challenge to his leadership. You should have just added the songs that you thought you should do. This would have opened up discussion. Then you would find that others would pipe up with tunes they think they should do and the tunes would have been chosen by consensus. HIS mistake was to isse a setlist instead of presenting a few ides of tunes he would like to play. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The clear lesson to be learned here is that making an effort to do anything is almost always an unrewarding task. It just pisses people off. So, in the future, quit trying. You're welcome. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Lesson learned I guess. as I said, I may just need to put things away for a while and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plangentmusic Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The clear lesson to be learned here is that making an effort to do anything is almost always an unrewarding task. It just pisses people off. So, in the future, quit trying. You're welcome. That's pretty much it. No one wants advice. Advice is considered criticism. Personally, I have no problem with it -- especially if I'm in a position to have the last word. If it helps, I can take it. And take credit for it! : ) And if I disagree, I can say, nope -- thanks anyway. But some people's egos are very, very fragile. JAZZ UN-STANDARDS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vE4FoJ4Cr4&feature=related DON'T FEAR...THE REVERB! 60's Instrumentals with MORE BASS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b5pilot Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The big mistake as I see it is that you sent the list to everyone. I would have sent it to the leader and see what he thought. Then if he pulled the "my band, my vision" thing you could have just bowed out. If he agreed then you could have sent it to the rest. Unfortunately you involved the rest of the band before knowing how the leader would react and aparently caused some unrest. The only thing you can do now is apologise and bow out or brace yourself for more crap. Erik our ursine sage reminded me of an old saying, "No good deed goes unpunished". Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it. http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcadmus Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Get off the email treadmill and have a conversation with the guy. No one ever resolved an issue in email. "Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Get off the email treadmill and have a conversation with the guy. No one ever resolved an issue in email. Great minds think alike. Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I think e mail is fine... phone sucks... in person is best but people suck in person too.... You were right... like I was right on my divorce.... still paid for it.... no matter how right I was... I like to hear other peoples ideas and wish they had them more often ... the fault perhaps lies with his inability to reframe your request of desire .... If you changed my set list, I would have responded with another and put my favorites back on and kept the conversation going. I really would have.... That would be a band "leader". Unfortunately usually the first guy to get there is the "leader".... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 my divorce.... still paid for it.... I think of that as money well spent. Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Steve, I didn't see the email (and I don't need to) to check your 'tone'. You may have come across like you were challenging and cranky and "I won't be in the band if you don't do my songs". You may have been fine and he has a bug up his butt. Phone and in-person reduce the risk of giving the wrong impression (but we're talking about people and communication - always risky). Frankly, the "I'll put my stuff away for a while" sounds very whiny (sorry Steve). You're better than that. 1) Decide (in advance) what you are willing to play (50% of his song choices?). 2a) Go talk to him in person. Apologize if your email came across negatively. Say "I want to play with you guys, but I want to understand the song choices and vision to see if this is right for me" 2b) Figure out his vision and his flexibility. Decide if it works for you (no complaining later). Join or not. If your area offers limited options for musical enterprises, think about this seriously. At the risk of giving more advise, I can tell you that each person in my band (that's 7) would love to take the songs in a different direction (or directions). We all play stuff that doesn't excite us when we are listening, or when we are playing. But I've been surprised how much I enjoy performing these tunes, because they are (mostly) good music and fun. If there are a few boring or clunky tunes, I can get past that. Come in off the ledge, make a plan, and do something positive. School just started - kick-start your life in all areas!! BTW, Too much time under the bed isn't good for your instruments, and left in close proximity you could spawn a bunch of "ros-lands" and "lak-coes". Dangerous couplings yield disturbing progeny Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Tom, I appreciate the advice. If I didn't, I wouldn't post here. The "pack it up and see" has been coming. I think this little incident just pushed me over the edge. I know I will never play in a band where I love all the tunes. I'm not that naive. My list about half and half. I just think I left off his favorite half or something. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 my divorce.... still paid for it.... I think of that as money well spent. Heck yes....!!!! "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcadmus Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Get off the email treadmill and have a conversation with the guy. No one ever resolved an issue in email. Great minds think alike. Stop copying off of me! "Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcadmus Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 my divorce.... still paid for it.... I think of that as money well spent. Heck yes....!!!! Next time instead of getting married, just find a woman you hate and buy her a house. (Hat tip Gary Mule Deer.) "Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddiePlaysBass Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Well, I think musicians are usually the worst kind of people to work with. What I intended was to find out if I was the only one feeling this way and if so, I was going to respectfully bow out of the project. You knew this, but perhaps the mail which you sent was not clear enough in communicating this message and hence, the "leader" felt threatened, as was mentioned before. Question: was it established upfront that he would be the leader? Or did he just assume the task to be his? So by trying to be open, up front and honest, I single handedly wrecked the band. I think you may be giving yourself way too much credit here. Judging by the tone you adopt in this thread, it seems to me like you are looking for an excuse to quit playing (for a while). I could be wrong, of course. But that is the impression you leave me with. "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 No, I was debating quitting before. I think this just sealed the deal. I'm off for 6 weeks so well see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I think sending an alternate song list was a mistake. If you didn't like the leader's list, you could have just said, can we do other types of songs, too, and maybe suggested some. Then, judging from the response, you'd know whether you were still interested. Sending an alternate song list to him and all the other band members does seem like an attempt to take over. But it's over know, so don't worry about it anymore. It looked like what happened was going to happen no matter what you did. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I think sending an alternate song list was a mistake. If you didn't like the leader's list, you could have just said, can we do other types of songs, too, and maybe suggested some. Then, judging from the response, you'd know whether you were still interested. Sending an alternate song list to him and all the other band members does seem like an attempt to take over. But it's over know, so don't worry about it anymore. It looked like what happened was going to happen no matter what you did. I change my answer to this.... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I change my answer to this.... C'mon. Everybody knows: No Changies. Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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