MOX8 question

[AnotherScott]

Very cool, but where to mount for live performance?

The iPad would lay pretty comfortably on the top right of the panel. I'd keep the iPad in protective cover, and velcro that to the MOX.

 

Though it would have been much nicer if Yamaha had shifted all the controls to the left, instead of centering them. Then all that wasted space between the pitch/mod wheels and the main control area could have been consolidated with all the free space on the right, and there would be enough space then to leave an iPad permanently attached, if you wanted, instead of having to velcro it on and off every time you needed to move the MOX in or out of its carrying case for a gig. Or that space would be available to better hold some other module or peripheral. Two smaller spaces are obviously not as useful as a single larger one.

 

I really have a whole list of MOX "screwups" that could have been very easily fixed at no cost, just some questionable design/interface decisions, par for the course for Yamaha. Still, I don't think anyone else has anything as good in an 88-key board of such low weight.

 

I played a MOX8 a couple of days ago, and must admit I enjoyed it MUCH more than I thought I would. If it had the four sliders (or if the knobs functioned as sliders....) and other basic MIDI controller capabilities (e.g., variable splits, layers, initial volume settings), I would have walked out with one.

If you want to give an example of exactly what you want it to do (using splits, layers, volumes), I might be able to tell you whether it does it... my guess is that it does. Everything I've tried along those lines has ultimately worked very well. And pretty easily. It's just not always easy to initially figure it out, between their poor manual, some unintuitive interface design, and some Yamaha-specific jargon (or just plain wrong word choices, if you're a native English speaker). But once you figure it out, it works very nicely.

 

With these functions, coupled with a clonewheel, the MOX8 would make a nice rig I could use for wedding receptions or other gigs where I don't need the horsepower of my "A" rig..

Yes, a clonewheel of some sort is exactly what I would pair it with, since the unweighted action and drawbar-organ are the two things most notably needed in a MOX8 complement. A Hammond SK1 would be great at 15 pounds, or an Electro 3 if you'd rather have user samples than real drawbars, or a Stage 2 at 21 lbs if you also want VA synth and aftertouch, or a Kronos for pretty much everything (though the "drawbars" are faders, and you're up to 28 pounds).

 

Question: Is the "Full Concert Grand" patch on the MOX8 the same as the Motif XS-Rack? I'm really warming up to this piano.....

Yes. The voice set of the MOX and the Motif XS Rack are identical. And yes, although not "state of the art," I think it's a very musical sounding piano, and much better than the one in the PX3 that has been my 88 for a while. You can't beat the PX3's low weight (or the fact that it costs half what a MOX8 costs), but the sounds and the flexibility of the MOX are in another league. And once you figure it out and set it up the way you want, its live performance interface is better, too.

 

[Moonglow]

The iPad would lay pretty comfortably on the top right of the panel. I'd keep the iPad in protective cover, and velcro that to the MOX.

 

Though it would have been much nicer if Yamaha had shifted all the controls to the left, instead of centering them....

I would ideally prefer more real estate between the mod/pitch wheels and the rest of the controls. That is, shift everything except the mod/pitch wheels (and perhaps the master volume) a little to the right. Then you could insert the ipad in the resulting space. This way there would be less cross-over reaching while keeping your RH on the keys.

 

If you want to give an example of exactly what you want it to do (using splits, layers, volumes), I might be able to tell you whether it does it... my guess is that it does. Everything I've tried along those lines has ultimately worked very well. And pretty easily. It's just not always easy to initially figure it out, between their poor manual, some unintuitive interface design, and some Yamaha-specific jargon (or just plain wrong word choices, if you're a native English speaker). But once you figure it out, it works very nicely.

Something like 2-3 zones/splits, each containing a unique internal or external sound with programmable entry volume levels. But without any sliders or knobs controlling the volumes, any subsequent on the fly adjustments would seem difficult (?).

 

[mcpepe]

I would like to use it with Ableton Live, but I see not listed in the manual as a Remote DAW. Can it be used with Ableton Live?

[zephonic]

AFAIK, it is class-compliant with ASIO on Windows and CoreAudio on OSX. So should work fine with Ableton.

[AnotherScott]

Though it would have been much nicer if Yamaha had shifted all the controls to the left, instead of centering them....

I would ideally prefer more real estate between the mod/pitch wheels and the rest of the controls. That is, shift everything except the mod/pitch wheels (and perhaps the master volume) to the right then you could insert the ipad in the resulting space. This way there would be less cross-over reaching while keeping your RH on the keys.

Either would be a big improvement over what they did. My inclination was to consolidate the space on the right for two reasons.

 

One, you would have a little more total space there, since on the left, the wheels (which themselves have to be inset somewhat from the edge) would prevent you from being able to maximize the available space, as well as preventing any possibility of overhanging. Any time the free space is "between" two things instead of at the end, you've created one more space restriction. In this case, assuming no other changes to the layout, consolidating the space on the left gives you 12" and no ability to overhang; consolidating on the right gives you 13" + you can overhang the edge a bit if you needed to, so there are more possible things you could potentially fit there.

 

Two, like many players, I play a lot of left hand bass, which has to keep playing no matter what, so it is my right hand that is more free to make adjustments on the fly. I can hit a right hand chord and sustain it with a pedal, for example, and keep the bass line going while my right hand makes adjustments. I can even leave a few bars with no "keyboard." But bass, for the most part, can't be sustained, and can't take a "break." So placing the faders on the left is what involves more cross-over reaching.

 

Something like 2-3 zones/splits, each containing a unique internal or external sound with programmable entry volume levels.

Easy. And more.

 

without any sliders or knobs controlling the volumes, any subsequent on the fly adjustments would seem difficult (?).

It's not unusable, but yeah, this is where you might want to add that iPad app or a Novation/M-Audio box o' faders. Short of that, to make on-the-fly volume adjustments among multiple sounds across the keyboard, you have to make sure the "Performance Control" button is lit; then hit button 1, 2, 3, or 4 on the lower right (depending on which of the 4 currently assigned sounds you want to adjust); and then one of the knobs on the top left will control the volume of that sound. If you didn't set it up properly in advance, you could also have to hit a button one or more times in order to make that knob adjust volume as opposed to one of three other parameters that can also be assigned to that knob, but with some planning, at least that much can be avoided.

[Ed Coury]

Had one for about 3 days now. Like it a lot. Found several options for "Category Searching." Biggest complaint is the thing that makes it so great -- lightweight plastic case. If you press in a certain spot or two on the back you can see and hear the plastic "give" a little. But I'm careful with my equipment, and look forward to gigging with this Sat.

[Outkaster]

The S90 series does this for yamaha.

Almost.

 

But it's 50 pounds! That's not gig-friendly. (And that's even before you put it in a case... and cases for 50 pound boards can't be too flimsy themselves.)

 

But you're right, functionally, that's closer to what I wanted the MOX8 to be. Something more like an S90XS with a lighter (i.e. GHS) keybed and the correspondingly lighter chassis. (And yes, as much as I dislike them, I'm willing to stick with the MOX's external power supply over the S90's internal, if necessary to keep the weight down.) Though I would ideally want them to also include some RAM for loading the same third-party voice libraries you can load into the Motif XS.

 

And actually, it looks like the MOX8 really has some very nice live performance oriented features that out-do even the S90XS... I haven't used the S90XS, but based on the manual, the expanded use of the Number [1-16] buttons looks like a major new benefit for live use, quick patch selection looks much improved. And the bigger screen is a significant improvement. But then, the MOX is a newer board, after all.

 

A version of the MOX8 with those specific performance-friendly S90XS features--aftertouch, 4 faders, extra foot controller jack, pair of assignable outs--would have been great. Better yet, also add RAM (or the ability to add it) for loading third-party libraries (or your own sounds). And while we're at it, sure, let's throw in the S90XS' better piano sound. That would be an ideal gig board. (And as I said, I wouldn't bemoan the loss of sequencer/arpeggiator/rhythms/audio-USB integration etc. if that was the tradeoff.)

 

Part of it is, I know, they are engineering to a price point. But as Nord has learned, you don't have to link low weight to low price. If the MOX8 had all the S90XS features I mentioned, I'd be willing to pay considerably more for it. Heck, I'd pay the price of an S90XS. I bet the S90XS itself would have sold more in recent years--at the same price it's been selling for--if it had weighed 15-20 pounds less (even with that meaning a shift to a GHS keyboard and external power supply). And Yamaha would have made more money on each one!

 

The S-90 XS is not that heavy, it's long. External power supplies are a pain. I had the S-90 and S-80 before that and there is not much difference. I don't always like the weight but the build quality is great. Everyone wants less weight but you always have to remember that 88 note boards are going to weigh a little more.

[AnotherScott]

The S90 series does this for yamaha.

Almost.

 

But it's 50 pounds! That's not gig-friendly. (And that's even before you put it in a case... and cases for 50 pound boards can't be too flimsy themselves.)

 

The S-90 XS is not that heavy

Just for clarification, Yamaha's web site says it's 49.6 lbs... though maybe you just meant that you don't think 50 lbs is that heavy.

 

Everyone wants less weight but you always have to remember that 88 note boards are going to weigh a little more.

Sure, a smaller board can always be lighter, but there are 88s under 30 lbs from Casio, Korg, and Yamaha; more 88s under 40 pounds from Nord, Kurzweil, and Roland.

 

But yes, there are compromises. If you've got the back and muscles for it, I think it feels better to play a 50+ pound Yamaha CP-5 or Roland FP-7F than any of the sub-40 pound boards.

 

 

[Outkaster]

Yup it feels better for sure.

[AnotherScott]

But without any sliders or knobs controlling the volumes, any subsequent on the fly adjustments would seem difficult (?).

An update on this... I posted this on the Motifator forum a few weeks ago, but remembered I talked about it here as well, so ...

 

In addition to the various workarounds already discussed, it turns out that there actually is a way to have the 4 knobs function as volume controls for 4 split and/or layered voices. If you set up a Master based on a Song or a Pattern, this will work. (The actual Song or Pattern itself can be empty.) Unfortunately, you do lose some other ability if you then want to change one of the four voices on the fly, you need to know where the sound you want is, because unlike when using Performance mode, in this mode the button assignment display for voice selection that normally comes up when you hit any of the A-through-H buttons wont come up, nor will Category Search work, nor Favorites. So there are no "shortcuts" to help find the sound you're looking for, you simply have to know its location (i.e. "Bank PRE1, Group H, Button 5). Its always something ;-)

 

Still, that limitation isn't bad if you just need to call up your own custom presets and don't typically need to change their voices on the fly. Or if you do want to be able to change one voice in a split/layer on the fly, you can mitigate the issue by copying all the voices you're likely to want to call up that way into a logically laid out USER bank (a good idea for grouping your most-accessed voices anyway).

 

EDIT: My idea for mitigating the issue may not work... for some reason, it's not letting me call up sounds from the USER bank in that mode. I need to investigate this further... user error...

[Moonglow]

....Still, that limitation isn't bad if you just need to call up your own custom presets and don't typically need to change their voices on the fly....

Cool, thanks for the update. I rarely call up another program when I'm using a setup on my PC3. I usually create a setup and run with it for the entire tune. I mainly use the sliders for volume control (e.g., fading a layer in/out). Is it possible to program entry-level volumes on the MOX8?

[AnotherScott]

Is it possible to program entry-level volumes on the MOX8?

Yes. Easy.

 

Also, it turns out that using the knobs for level control has a real advantage over faders. The knobs on the MOX are endless rotaries. So when you go to adjust a level, it's always at the "right" place for you to turn the volume up or down relative to whatever level it happened to start at. No "jumps" to a fader's absolute position, no need to move a fader "past" a point that corresponds to the existing value before it can function.

 

Yamaha should have made using the knobs for multi-part volume more straight-forward, it's another example of questionable Yamaha interface design, but it does work, and I no longer consider the "missing" faders to be an issue at all.

 

And the other bit of good news in this is that, to the extent that the real-time part-level volume implementation really still could be better, at least there's a chance Yamaha can enhance that functionality in a software update. There's no way a software update was ever going to add physical faders to the board. ;-)

 

 

[Podgesaxpiano]

Hi there,

I just took delivery of a Mox8 last week and I'm finding it difficult switching over from a Roland with regard to user interface etc. Could you please point me in the direction of how to program the knobs to act as volume controls for the four zones please? How do I 'setup a master based on a song or pattern' as you suggest?

Has anyone else found both manuals to be unhelpful?

 

Thanks,

P.

 

[ADino]

^ Yes.

[DanS]

Go here and read the bits on the S70/90XS.

[CEB]

Thanks Sir!

[Podgesaxpiano]

Thanks for that. I'm still tearing my hair out trying to get it done. If anyone could show me how to customise the knobs for volume for different parts in the internal sounds I would be eternally grateful.

 

Thanks.

[AnotherScott]

If anyone could show me how to customise the knobs for volume for different parts in the internal sounds I would be eternally grateful.

it's a bit convoluted to set up (and impossible to discern from the manual), but once you do it, it works nicely. It's come up a bunch, and I've been meaning to put together a little video on it, which I should be able to do in the next few weeks.

[Podgesaxpiano]

Thanks man.