Chord help wanted

[Cygnus64]

I'm arranging this. At the chorus (1:18), what is the second chord? It's obviously seem derivative of Eb and has Eb in the bass. Sounds like an Eb major with F and A as passing tones. Would I call that Eb/Add 9? Thanks

[video:youtube]

[SK]

Ebmaj.7#11 Voiced like Dm7/Eb. (going up: middle C, D, F, A, with Eb bass)

 

There's some kind of funky harmonic in there caused by a doubled note in the bass or maybe a harmonic from a patch or an organ bass pedal, but I wouldn't worry about it...

[Cygnus64]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[BernMeister]

I'm arranging this. At the chorus (1:18), what is the second chord? It's obviously seem derivative of Eb and has Eb in the bass. Sounds like an Eb major with F and A as passing tones. Would I call that Eb/Add 9? Thanks

You have it right. It's a passing chord but it would be labeled as F/Eb, hence the sequence Gm - F/Eb - Eb (I don't hear the D in Dmin7 as SK suggested).

 

 

[Bobadohshe]

F/Eb. In this pop context that's exactly what's going on.

[Cygnus64]

F/Eb. In this pop context that's exactly what's going on.

 

So, the slash indicates that it's an F maj chord with Eb in the bass, is that correct? My brain always sees that as some sort of polychord, but it's just an inverted Fma7, correct?

 

I wish I would have learned theory in a non-classical way. The classical way ( I, IV V etc) is useless in the real world.

[Sven Golly]

F/Eb. In this pop context that's exactly what's going on.

 

So, the slash indicates that it's an F maj chord with Eb in the bass, is that correct? My brain always sees that as some sort of polychord, but it's just an inverted Fma7, correct?

 

If it's an F major triad over an Eb in the bass, it's an F7 (dominant, not major). Otherwise yep, that's correct.

 

As has been stated, in a pop tune, F/Eb is fine.

[SK]

Okay, I said it's "voiced like" a Dm7/Eb. That could be an F6/Eb, because I thought I heard a D note in there, and if it's not, it's fine to play the D anyway. It could also be played with a Bb in the chord as in Gm9, but the simplest is just F/Eb.

 

Yes, slash means "chord/bass note." I'd call it Ebmaj.7#11 to avoid slash chords when not absolutely needed.

 

So translating this post ... whatever you want to call it.

[Cygnus64]

If it's an F major triad over an Eb in the bass, it's an F7 (dominant, not major).

 

Right, dominant. That's one of those lil inconsistencies that drives me nuts. It's a major triad, yet they change the damnn name. Sometimes.

 

Yes, slash means "chord/bass note."

 

Got it, thanks all. The irony is that the pianist (s) reading the charts will probably have no idea what any of this means. I'm writing out the parts and including chord symbols, just in case we get some jazz-oriented ones.

[Bobadohshe]

F/Eb. In this pop context that's exactly what's going on.

 

So, the slash indicates that it's an F maj chord with Eb in the bass, is that correct?

 

You could say it that way, but in this case it's more accurate to think of it as an Eb chord with F and A in it. All the chord really is is a snapshot of what's happening on that exact beat. What's clearly happening is the A and F are part of descending voices that are about to land nicely on Eb and G, giving you a nice 100% Eb chord. This happens a lot on IV chords in a major key: you have a IV chord but the melody is in the leading tone of the key, which give you a lydian sound over the IV chord. (here, it's A over an Eb which is the leading tone (maj7) of the key of Bb). The same thing happens in the 6th measure of Happy Birthday. It's like a lydian suspension that resolves to a chord tone.

 

And that's all that's happening here: The chord and tonality is Eb but the melody is A resolving down to G. And if you notate the first two beats of that measure as 'F/Eb' then 'Eb', you'll account for it.

 

My brain always sees that as some sort of polychord, but it's just an inverted Fma7, correct?

 

See above comments. I wouldn't think of it that way. It's an Eb chord, not an F chord.

[Bobadohshe]

But philosophy of that EXACT chord aside, yes, a slash means exactly what you and Sven concluded.

 

Voicing wise, F/Eb = F triad with Eb in the bass.

[JeffLearman]

It's a major triad, yet they change the damnn name. Sometimes.

Both F7 and Fmaj7 use the major 3rd, but they have different 7ths, thus the name change. There should be no "sometimes" about it.

 

I play with blues guys all the time and frequently they say "major" when they should say "dominant". They're only telling half the story (thinking about 3rds, ignoring 7ths). Of course, it's almost always the dominant (minor 7th), so they're wrong. But the other guys get it. I usually cuss and say "no, dominant!" and they ignore me as usual.

[linwood]

more iPad junk for you:

 

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wi-orchestra/id434371426?mt=8&ls=1#

[Steve Nathan]

Don't want to start a 25 page thread or anything

but I don't think it's an F triad over Eb. I don't hear a C at all. Sounds like Eb octaves in the left and Bb/F/A on top. Wouldn't you schooled folks call that simply an Eb11 (or Eb9 add 11)?

[mynameisdanno]

Another vote for F/Eb. I don't hear the C in that chorus, but I'm pretty sure the choir is doing the full F triad (with C) in the last chorus. The C wouldn't sound wrong in any event. F/Eb is the most succinct description of what you want to hear. If a jazz guy (who has somehow managed to not ever hear the tune before in his life) sees Eb#11 or whatever, you may get something thicker than you want (especially if he's bored).

[Bobadohshe]

Don't want to start a 25 page thread or anything

but I don't think it's an F triad over Eb. I don't hear a C at all. Sounds like Eb octaves in the left and Bb/F/A on top. Wouldn't you schooled folks call that simply an Eb11 (or Eb9 add 11)?

 

The C doesn't need to be there. But for simplicity's sake I'd still call it F/Eb. Eb9 add 11 doesn't work only because putting 9 implies it a dominant chord. Maybe Add 9 Add 11, that would be fine. But then you'd have the G in there too which you don't want. That's what it's easier to put F/Eb. Shy of just writing the damn thing out, that chord symbol gets closest to what you want to say in the least amount of time.

[BernMeister]

Don't want to start a 25 page thread or anything

but I don't think it's an F triad over Eb. I don't hear a C at all. Sounds like Eb octaves in the left and Bb/F/A on top. Wouldn't you schooled folks call that simply an Eb11 (or Eb9 add 11)?

I too am sorry to have to drag this thread any longer, but I do have to put my foot down on this. In fact, I'll bet my transcribing reputation on it; there most definitely is a "c" in the proposed F/Eb. And as commented by Mynameisdanno, to label it Eb9(add11) or any extension of the sort would only confuse the reader, jazz guy or other.

 

Furthermore, I believe others have already posted why you can't call it Eb9 (there's no flat 7 in the recording), and the 11th (if so-labeled) would have to be #11.

 

 

[reidmc]

outside of Theo-initiated efforts, these are my favorite kind of threads

[Steve Nathan]

So sorry. In my haste I managed to leave the # sign out on the sharp 11.

There most definitely is a "C" in any F/Eb chord, but I just don't hear a "C" in the recording posted by Cygnus at the designated frame (1:18). That said, if I were charting this (in Nashville numbers) I would still call it a 5/4 (F/Eb) and just tell the players to ignore or downplay the "C". The issue here crops up in recording with vocalists all the time. The focus needs to be on how to accommodate the melody, not the players.

[Cygnus64]

So sorry. In my haste I managed to leave the # sign out on the sharp 11.

There most definitely is a "C" in any F/Eb chord, but I just don't hear a "C" in the recording posted by Cygnus at the designated frame (1:18). That said, if I were charting this (in Nashville numbers) I would still call it a 5/4 (F/Eb) and just tell the players to ignore or downplay the "C". The issue here crops up in recording with vocalists all the time. The focus needs to be on how to accommodate the melody, not the players.

 

The second time the chorus comes, she actually sings a C. I agree that it's ambigious the first time due to the fuzzy patches. Here's another version of her doing it live and the C is there:

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWqB-6ANG4c&feature=related

 

[Steve Nathan]

I agree that it's ambigious the first time

By all means, write it as F/Eb. Like I said, that's how I would write it too. However, just for grins, sit at the piano and play and sing this, once with Eb/C/F/A and again with Eb/Bb/F/A. There is a subtle but significant difference. My ear prefers the later.

[B3_borne]

Well I have a chord chart (sheet music) and this is what is written

 

Intro

 

Bb(add C) Eb(add F) F/A Bb(add C) Eb(add F)

 

-------

 

Bb Eb(add F) Bb Eb(add F) Bb/D Cm7 Fsus4 F Cm7 Fsus4 F

 

//: Bb Eb/Bb Bb Eb(add F) Bb Eb/Bb Bb Eb(add F) Gm7 Cm7

 

Bb/C Fsus4 F Cm7 Bb/C Cm7 Fsus4 F D7/F# // Gm7 F/Eb Eb

 

Bb F/A Gm7 F/Eb Eb Bb F/A Gm7 F/Eb Eb Bb F/A F D/F#

 

Gm7 F/Eb Eb Bb F/A Gm7 Cm7

 

to Coda Fsus4 F (1st chorus tag) Bb(add C) Eb(add F)

 

(2nd chorus tag)

 

//: Bb Eb/Bb Bb F/A D.S al Coda

 

Coda Bb/F F Bb(add C) Eb(add F)/Bb Bbsus2 F7sus4/Eb

 

Bb(add C) Bb/D F7sus4/Eb F/A Bbsus2 F7sus4/Eb Bb(add C)

 

Bb/D F7sus4/Eb F/A Bb(add C) Eb/Bb Fsus4 Bb(add C)//

[johnchop]

You are the Eb beneath my F.