Official NFL 2010-2011 Thread

[meccajay]

41 points, 0 catches for Moss.

 

Don't let the good taste fool ya!

 

Makes sense for both teams. May help MN beat the Jets next week. RM will be back in NE on Halloween - should be interesting.

 

Yes, and not only that but the next 4 games are Jets, Cowboys, Packers, Pats.. Not only crucial part of the Vikes schedule, but Moss has a connection to all those teams (although Dallas is somewhat a reach). Even if his contribution only helps with 2 of the 4 opponents, then it's a plus. Not to mention, the division and playoff implications to come.

[GovernorSilver]

(not counting GovernorSilver, who unfortunately didn't make picks and got the resulting goose egg.

 

Huh? I recall hurriedly selecting picks before taking off for band practice Sunday. Did I forget to hit the submit button or something?

[GovernorSilver]

Some Belichick-Moss gossip:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/06/sources-moss-was-becoming-a-distraction-in-new-england/?related=1

[Griffinator]

A little late to this party, but here's my take:

 

The whys:

 

1) Moss blew up on the sideline at the QB coach during that Miami game because he felt like he wasn't involved enough in the offense. This after he already publicly grumbled about not being offered an extension.

 

2) The reason the Pats didn't offer him an extension is the same reason why they can afford to trade him - Tate is healthy and looks solid, and the two rookie TE's are even more potent than anyone could have hoped.

 

3) The Pats offense looks to be evolving back to what it was in the SB-winning years - solid, grind down the field, spread the ball around, and wear the opponent out. The new crop of receivers and TE's give them the luxury to run or pass effectively out of 2 TE sets, something they weren't last year with mediocre blocking TE's.

 

4) The why for Minny is obvious - their receiving corps is seriously depleted with all the injuries and problems. Moss can step right into that offense and start running fly and go patterns right out of the gate, and Brett is the type of QB that will wing it to him on single coverage all day and night.

 

What I think about the impact to each team:

 

Minnesota

 

This team just went from flop back to SB contender in the blink of an eye. Moss as a legit deep threat loosens up the field again for Peterson, and conversely Peterson causes the play-action to become downright deadly for Moss. A 3rd rounder for that kind of game-changing talent is a bargain (even though the Pats essentially profited off the deal).

 

New England

 

Yes, it's true, defenses won't have to worry about Moss - but they didn't have to worry about Moss back in 2005, and it didn't do them any good. Now the Pats offense is more like "who the hell do you cover?" - Wes? Edelman (aka Wes Junior)? Tate? They've got guys all over the field that can devour zones and single coverage with equal aplomb.

 

Did I mention Moss being miserable was a sure recipe for a locker room disaster, now that the venerable old vets that kept the locker room in line are all gone?

 

Oh - and now BB has what he LOVES having in the draft - two picks in each of the first 4 rounds next season. Hopefully Oakland's resurgence is short lived. I'd love to see one of those picks be in the top 10...

 

So, everyone wins, IMO.

[richwhite9]

 

1) Pats won superbowls with no name WR's before so its not like they are in need a superstar at WR. Don't be surprised ff the Pats go for a proven veteran (an Assante Samuel type) for the defensive backfield or at LB as a team leader and on-field play reader (a Junior Seau type). Either late season or in the Spring.

 

 

2) Pats had no plans of resigning Moss.

 

3) Moss was a locker room and media cancer this year.

 

4) Moss will be 34 years old next season. Faulk (34), Taylor (34) and Morris (33) make up the oldest backfield in the NFL

That's the area the Pats need to rebuild and Moss is the first step.

 

4) So far this season, Randy Moss has a league-high five dropped passes and has the lowest catch percentage (receptions/(receptions+drops)) of any receiver with at least 20 targets on the season. A step off his game or sabotage?

 

5) Pats have a young player who has shown promise at WR

 

6) Pats get a potential contributer in return by getting a 3rd round pick

 

7) The Pats only spent a 4th round pick to get Moss, so in reality they got his production for 3 years and got back more then they spent on him

 

Also Pats will likely trade down at least one of their first round picks for the usual Belicheck deal -- a round 3 this year and a round 2 next year.

[meccajay]

Next year and onward the Pats may be fine, but if they want to play for an NFL title THIS YEAR, then they need Randy Moss.

 

No Moss, and Welker at less than 100% will not get it done. It remains to be seen if a healthy Welker can even be a #1 without the league's best coverage rolled to Moss. Not saying he can't, but there has been a lot of feasting by Wes, while Randy was soaking up double coverage. We'll just have to see how that plays out.

[GovernorSilver]

This SD-based writer might be a homer, but he thinks Belichick would be willing to pay the steeper price the Chargers are asking of AFC teams (more expensive than NFC "customers") in exchange for Vincent Jackson:

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oct/06/vj-patriots-not-likely-not-impossible/

[antimatter]

I think it's a good move all around, certainly makes next Monday's night game that much more interesting. Revis should be back for the Jets, so we get to see that battle again.

I think the Pats will be fine. I'm not sure if it was Jaws or Gruden who said it, but I agree that when you have Brady as your QB and Belichick as your HC, you're in it.

Plus they have that little guy playmaker Woodhead. Great name.

[richwhite9]

Revis is already taunting Moss telling the press that Moss tanked the Pats Jets game in the second half.

 

This is the problem the Pats faced: Randy screamed at the QB coach Bill O'Brien at half time against Miami and based on some previous games and comments it was thought Moss would tank the Patriots in the playoffs to go home early to get back at Belichick and Kraft.

 

 

>> In the second half, you could tell he was putting his foot on the brakes," said the Jets' star cornerback, looking forward to facing the Minnesota Vikings Monday night. "I mean, everybody knows that's Randy. Sometimes he plays 100 percent, sometimes he doesn't."

 

Revis, who referred to Moss as a "slouch" in an offseason interview, was asked if he saw any slouch in Moss. He said Moss seemed frustrated and lost interest in the second half.

 

"You can tell, you can see the effort," Revis said. "Playing football, you can see the body language and effort of people. If a guy's going hard or a guy is hesitant ... that's the way football is, the truth comes out. You could see it in that game. <<

[MikeT156]

I was expecting trouble from Moss a lot sooner than this. I really thought that Moss would try to be Moss the first year he joined the Pats, but I was wrong. Fast forward 3 years and Moss is getting a taste of being an older WR that is not at the top of the pecking order in Brady or the coaches eyes. He may not be just another tall receiver, but he's not 25 years old anymore either.

 

Vaya con Dios Randy Moss.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Mike T.

[Bridog6996]

Moss was to the Pats what Manny Ramirez was to the Red Sox: a player with amazing talent, but who sometimes doesn't seem like he wants to be on the field. When he wants to, Moss can still burn the best defenders in the game (see his one-handed TD catch on Revis a couple games back), but other times he seems to be just jogging through the motions.

 

I've been impressed with a lot of the young talent on the Pats' roster so far this season. Brady is returning to his old style of throwing all over the field, compared to 2007 when Moss and Welker were his primary targets. It seems Moss' role was to be the deep threat, where he'd get only a few passes in his direction per game. If he's not happy with that (which is obvious), then it's in everybody's interests for him to go somewhere else. I'd rather have a ready-to-play Moss than not, to be sure, but I also wouldn't be incredibly concerned about losing him. Better that than a half-assed effort.

 

[meccajay]

Very interesting stuff coming out on radio and TV..

 

So far I've heard Randy Moss may have tanked the 2nd half of the Jets game, and Belichick may have responded by "freezing out" Moss in the Miami game, then trading him. Sounds like high school.

 

Yeah, it was time to get out of there!

[Bridog6996]

What I find more interesting than the trade itself is the fact that the Pats practically gave Moss away. Moss for a third round draft pick? Belichick REALLY wanted him out of there. Even still, that was way too generous.

[Dave Bryce]

What I find more interesting than the trade itself is the fact that the Pats practically gave Moss away. Moss for a third round draft pick? Belichick REALLY wanted him out of there.

IIRC, the Raiders traded him to the Pats for a fourth round draft choice. Didn't make much sense to me at the time, but it does a bit more now.

 

dB

[richwhite9]

What I find more interesting than the trade itself is the fact that the Pats practically gave Moss away. Moss for a third round draft pick? Belichick REALLY wanted him out of there. Even still, that was way too generous.

 

Well they got him for a 4th round pick from the last team that thought Randy Moss was a cancer (Oakland).

 

Jerry Rice in his peak years from 27 to 33 averaged 1460 yards and 14 TDS a year. His next 4 years he averaged 800 yards and 6 TDs and dealt with a series of injuries. I don't think this will come back to haunt the Pats

[Bridog6996]

It's such a shame about Moss' attitude and personality, because in my opinion he's without a doubt one of the best receivers in the game, even at his relative old age. When he wants to be, that is. As I said before, he's the NFL's Manny Ramirez. Both a blessing and a curse. As a Pats fan, I was obviously a little wary when Moss originally came to town, given his history, but up until this point I've been totally happy about Moss' tenure with the team.

 

Hopefully he'll give Favre some help in Minnesota. I remember Favre pushed hard to bring Moss to Green Bay before the Pats ended up grabbing him.

[GovernorSilver]

Chargers quietly signed ex-Steeler safety Tyrone Carter for depth, after losing starter Steve Gregory for 4 weeks for taking performance enhancement substance(s). Unfortunately, they cut veteran DE Boone to make room for him, despite being credited for helping to rally together a D-line that was falling apart early in the 2009 season.

 

 

[Griffinator]

Chargers quietly signed ex-Steeler safety Tyrone Carter for depth, after losing starter Steve Gregory for 4 weeks for taking performance enhancement substance(s). Unfortunately, they cut veteran DE Boone to make room for him, despite being credited for helping to rally together a D-line that was falling apart early in the 2009 season.

 

 

Over/under on Boone being signed by the Pats: 1 week.

[Griffinator]

Very interesting stuff coming out on radio and TV..

 

So far I've heard Randy Moss may have tanked the 2nd half of the Jets game, and Belichick may have responded by "freezing out" Moss in the Miami game, then trading him. Sounds like high school.

 

Yeah, it was time to get out of there!

 

BB "Freezing" Moss out is ludicrous, considering that Brady put what would have been the go-ahead TD at the end of the first half directly in his hands on that fake spike play, and he DROPPED IT.

[meccajay]

 

BB "Freezing" Moss out is ludicrous

 

Yep, looks pretty ludicrous to me

 

New England Receiving

REC YDS AVG TD LG TGTS

W. Welker 8 70 8.8 0 17 10

B. Tate 4 39 9.8 0 12 5

A. Hernandez 5 29 5.8 0 10 5

D. Woodhead 1 11 11.0 1 11 1

R. Gronkowski 1 4 4.0 0 4 1

R. Moss 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

Team 19 153 8.1 1 17 23

 

*edit*

 

Acoording to Cris Carter on Sporting News radio yesterday, Brad Childress was watching the Dolphins/Pats game, saw the Moss freeze out, and knew Moss was now available. He then said to his GM Rick Spielman, "go get us Randy Moss".

[Griffinator]

Mecca... C'mon, man. You know damned right well that:

 

1) Moss gets doubled every game if he goes more than 10 yards out.

 

2) Miami's defense is 100% focused on preventing big plays.

 

3) Moss was targeted several times that game, but was never open until that fake spike when he dropped the easy touchdown. (You wouldn't know this if you hadn't watched the game, but...)

 

4) He's had 6 games since he got to NE where he only had one catch for the game - primarily because he only had one good chance at making a catch in the given game - he had one good chance at making a catch in the Miami game, and he blew it.

 

5) Unlike many shitty QB's in the NFL, Tom Brady makes the smart throw 99 times out of 100 - as in, he doesn't throw into double coverage, no matter who is on the receiving end.

[meccajay]

Well Griff you're right Moss did miss the pass that was in his hands. I saw the game, and it looked like he was too worried about his feet being inbounds to extend for the catch, but oh well, dropped pass none the less.

 

As far as Brady not throwing to a double covered Moss. You're probably right, but he's been double covered for 12 yrs with the late exception of the Jets & maybe the Raiders, so nothings changed there, but at least targeted even if he doesn't catch too many. This season, in 4 games he's been targeted like this: 8, 10, 3, 1(trade talks next day). Smell funny?

[Griffinator]

Let's not forget, of the 3 targets he had last week, 2 were for TD's - it's not like anyone was ignoring him.

 

Let's also not forget, Tom only had 24 attempts against Miami, which is very low for him, and threw only 1 TD. I don't remember him pitching a bitch for having to split the offensive load with the RB's (they only ran the ball 24 times)...

 

That's a total of 48 offensive plays, half of which were runs.

 

To me, it smells like Randy had a bitch-fit because he's trying to have himself a contract year, and he couldn't see past the fact that the team in general was having more success in other places than the passing game.

 

That said, here's what BB said yesterday:

 

"Randy was really a pleasure to coach. I enjoyed having him on our team," Belichick said. "It was a difficult decision but one that I feel was in the best interests of the football team. ... I wish Randy the absolute best."

 

Several factors contributed to Wednesday's trade, Belichick said, but the coach didn't specify them.

 

"I would say there was never any incident or discipline problem with Randy," he said. "There never has been one with me in four years, and it certainly wasn't about contract and money."

 

One more thing - Randy had his agent ask for a trade after Week 1. So it's not like he didn't want out.

[Bridog6996]

"Freezing" somebody out just isn't Belichick's style from what I've seen over the years. I don't see him being worried about anything other than winning the game at hand. If he wanted Moss out of the picture and/or didn't feel like he was giving 100%, I don't think he would have even thought twice about just benching him.

 

All in all, I don't really care what happened. The deal was made, life goes on. I think the Pats will continue to win.

[GovernorSilver]

Chargers quietly signed ex-Steeler safety Tyrone Carter for depth, after losing starter Steve Gregory for 4 weeks for taking performance enhancement substance(s). Unfortunately, they cut veteran DE Boone to make room for him, despite being credited for helping to rally together a D-line that was falling apart early in the 2009 season.

 

 

Over/under on Boone being signed by the Pats: 1 week.

 

 

and if not the Pats, then the Jets. Fair enough, as ex-Jet Antonio Garay is working out nicely for the Chargers as their new nose tackle.

[meccajay]

"Freezing" somebody out just isn't Belichick's style from what I've seen over the years. I don't see him being worried about anything other than winning the game at hand.

 

Well if it's one thing we know, it's that dispite Belichick's vote of confidence in Moss's charachter and attitude towards his coach and teamates etc, one thing remains true.. This ain't April! Moss was put on the market 4 games into the season in early October, just one day after only one pass thrown in his direction.

 

Besides that, Cris Carter says Brad Childress was reportedly the one mentioning him being frozen out, and somehow Moss is wearing a Vikings uni the same week. Coinkidink? Or was Chilly seeing the obviious and making a smart, quick move?

 

You know, freezing someone out can be a subtle thing proffesionally. It doesn't have to be Belichick wearing his Darth Vader outfit breathing heavily. All it takes is a nudge to Brady and say; "Soon the Pats are going in a different direction from Moss, and we want you to one day be ready for that.." Then start calling similar routes/plays without Moss as the 1st option.. Brady's not culpable.

[MikeT156]

Count me in on the fact that Hoody (BB) wouldn't shut out Moss from getting the ball thrown his way, he wants to win. As Scott mentioned in an earlier post, Moss's agent asked for a trade at the beginning of the season. So he got what he asked for, a trade. Hoody only wants players that want to play for the Pats. If they don't like the deal the club is giving them, or no deal, then they can move on. Moss was expendable.

 

No Cheers for Moss in NE,

 

 

Mike T.

[meccajay]

I agree, had hoody been down by 10 points, then the freeze out wouldn't have happened.

 

That week.

 

 

 

 

[Bridog6996]

I'll bet Minnesota had been eying Moss ever since he requested a trade back in week 1. Not to mention that Brett Favre made a play for Green Bay to get Moss back when the Pats signed him, and now he's got his chance. I think it worked out for everybody, except for the fact that I think the Pats could have shot a little higher as far as a return on the trade.

 

I guess whether or not Belichick and Co. decided to freeze him out doesn't really matter, because Moss was leaving no matter what. For all we know, Moss could have frozen himself out by dogging it on his routes, which he is prone to do when he's unhappy. Brady's not going to throw to someone who's half-assing it.

[Dave Bryce]

Sincere thanks to Philip Rivers and the San Diego Chargers for totally choking away what should have been a textbook end of the game against the Raiders today.

 

How nice to have it happen to the opposing team for a change.

 

dB