My East West QL pianos experience

[SK]

Thanks Allan.

 

MoodyBluesKeys Hope you'll enjoy it as much as I am. I hope the demos accurately show the quality of the samples, but it still comes down to personal taste. Be prepared to take a day to install it all, and let us know how you like it.

 

Menno, it is a great deal, so I jumped on it. My computer is right in the middle between basic and recommended system requirements, so it might work for you. But there's never anything wrong with waiting - software will get better.

your Yamaha demo made me laugh

[cnegrad]

SK,

 

Thanks for the dry demos; I'm sold! Next question: What's with the "Gold" version? Do I take it that there's a "Platinum" version as well? And if so, what's the difference? Thanks again!

[burningbusch]

From EWQL:

 

"Many users asked us for a lighter version of our EASTWEST/QUANTUM LEAP PIANOS that will allow them to run the most critically acclaimed pianos collection (see reviews) on slower computers. EW/QL Pianos Gold gives you that option, with only the player-perspective mic position included. When you do have the hardware you need for the full version, the upgrade costs only the difference in price."

 

I own the full version and rarely use anything but the player position mics.

 

Also, if you are having issues with pops/clicks on your system, try turning off the reverb in the plugin and use a reverb in your DAW. The one in the piano is convolution and can be the source of problems if your system isn't quite powerful enough.

 

Busch.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Gold Edition samples: Up to 55GB Free Hard Disc Space. Each piano can be loaded and used individually:

(Bechstein 11.3GB, Bösendorfer 17.9GB, Steinway 10.4GB, Yamaha 10GB)

 

Platimum Edition samples: Up to 263GB Free Hard Disc Space. Each piano can be loaded and used individually:

(Bechstein 73GB, Bösendorfer 87GB, Steinway 58GB, Yamaha 46GB)

 

Gold Edition MINIMUM PC: Pentium 4 3.0GHz, 2GB RAM, Windows XP SP2 or Vista, sound card with ASIO drivers

 

Platimum Edition MINIMUM PC: Dual Core Pentium 2.5GHz, 2GB RAM, Windows XP SP2 or Vista, sound card with ASIO drivers

 

Recommended PC for either (Mac requirements are similar amount of horsepower available): Intel or AMD Quad Core 2.0GHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit OS and host

 

So - I'll have a 18G Bosie instead of a 87G Bosie. That's still a HUGE sample compared to my hardware. I do have one machine that is capable of optimual running of either version, might upgrade later, depends on how well the samples in the Gold version do.

 

[gangsu]

9 dual-layer DVD's - that's huge. Is GOLD a full version install with the other unlicensed mic perspectives locked?

 

[burningbusch]

9 dual-layer DVD's - that's huge. Is GOLD a full version install with the other unlicensed mic perspectives locked?

 

No, the full version is 35 DVDs.

 

SK, the numbers don't add up. I think Gold is missing some of the articulations.

 

If I look in the Bosendorfer Samples/Bosendorfer Player folder I have the following folders.

 

BOS fx

BOS marcato (release trails)

BOS rep

BOS rep pedal dwn

BOS sft pedal

BOS staccato

BOS sus pedal

BOS sus sftpedal

BOS sustain

 

Are you missing some of these folders. My Bosendorfer Player folder is 28.7 GB.

 

Busch.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Wow - 35 DVDs - how long did it take to install that puppy?

 

[SK]

The 9 DVD's take took me about 30-45 min. to load each one. The documentation says to allow "at least 45 min." to load each DVD. So 35 discs would take 'a little longer'.

 

SK, the numbers don't add up. I think Gold is missing some of the articulations.

 

If I look in the Bosendorfer Samples/Bosendorfer Player folder I have the following folders.

 

BOS fx

BOS marcato (release trails)

BOS rep

BOS rep pedal dwn

BOS sft pedal

BOS staccato

BOS sus pedal

BOS sus sftpedal

BOS sustain

 

Are you missing some of these folders. My Bosendorfer Player folder is 28.7 GB.

Busch, I just checked and all the articulations you listed are in the folder, but at 17.88 GB for the folder on mine. "Lite" articulations maybe?

 

EW told me the samples in the Gold edition are 16 bit (same as the orchestra Silver), while the full version has 24 bit samples. The Player system itself is identical, which I believe works at 32 bit to 64 bit.

 

The interface is the same (as the demo tour on the site) with all the articulation adjustments, sensitivity graph, etc. - but the light only turns on for the "player perspective" mics.

 

So it seems to me that the Gold version is just taking off the "close" and "room" mics and reducing it to 16 bit.

[cnegrad]

Hmmm....My Dual G5 is somewhat questionable even with this scaled down version. I guess that I'll stick with Ivory until I get a new desktop....

[SK]

cnegrad, my computer is a duo core G5, 4 GB of RAM. It may work for you. Check the site for the minimum requirements. As long as it's above that, I think you'd have no problem.

 

I did just see that the sale is off now, but they have reduced the price by 10%.

[ADino]

I find it interesting that you are not experiencing dropouts with your setup...Im using an intel quad w/8 gb memory, and I get drop outs with just about every EW product I own. They run fine on my G5, granted they are the older versions. After going back and forth w/EW tech support, I still cannot get these to work properly.

I dont get cracks or pops, just dropouts. Very disruptive. Im actually looking at replacing the EW products as everything else Im using runs fine.

 

After trying to do some tracking w/the piano in EW QLSO, and getting dropouts, I was so frustrated that I tried 1 of the Steiners that come w/Logic 9..I was surprised as, it actually wasnt bad at all and sat nicely in the mix.

[SK]

ADino, no dropouts - those 'demos' I did are just as they sound, no problems - maybe I'm lucky. Turning the ambience up can cause occasional quirkiness, so I mostly leave the ambience off. A few little weird things happen with adjustments, but once it's set, it fine.

 

Are you using the Gold pianos? The bigger EW pianos or strings versions may cause issues for computers less than 8 core - I had some weirdness with the free Silver orchestra demo. A quad core should do fine, but it might depend on how much is on your computer too - mine's about 6 months old.

[ADino]

Hey SK, I dont have the EW piano's.. have Symp Orch plat plus, Ra, SD2 and MOR...I havent figured out the problem yet but all of my other samples work great..Ive heard that Omni causes a lot of problems but I installed that this AM and it works fine...the quad doesnt mind it at all...finishing up trillian install now, both upgrades...just cant seem to get the EW stuff to run properly..so I am wondering if they were made to run on the 8 core machines...if so, too bad for me, I dumped a load of cash on these products and I really do like their samples. I just cant seem to use them to the degree I can my others.

[SK]

Man, sorry you're having those problems. (I misunderstood from the "EW's" in your post.) I think EW should address that - they should make sure you can use the products you bought. It may be some computer problem, or it may require a software reinstall if the files are even slightly corrupted.

 

BTW, I'm new to software instruments, so take my thoughts for what they're worth.

[ADino]

Thks SK..Ive been using a G5 for a few years now, the EW stuff taxed it but they were usable, never got dropouts, so Im hoping EW comes up w/a solution or a version bump. I dont think its the quad, all of my other plugs run great. I installed Trilian and have been working w/it with no problems at all..by the way, I upgraded from Trilogy..Trilian is simply killen..better than Trilogy by miles. Well worth the investment.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I have now received and installed the EWQL Gold Pianos (on a new DAW, yet). SK reminded me by PM to share my thoughts on it. The below (longish) post is that Initial Sharing - well worth the $195 + iLock and shipping:

 

I had some problems (lost clusters) on the system disk of my older DAW (Pent 4 3g, 2g RAM, XP), so I figured it was time to update the system: I ordered a new refurb HP dc5850 PC (Athlon dual core 2600, 8G RAM, with XP/Vista 32 bit, 2-500G SATA3 HD just under $500 plus shipping for it). So, after receiving the software, I waited for the PC, which arrived Tuesday morning. I built it with Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, moved the eMu 1820M over to it, and started installing software on it. I started the install of QL Wed afternoon, ran into some error messages - tried to get their support who were not on line - sent a problem report to them. (I just checked - they have still not responded, and are not online now, even though it is within the hours stated as online)

 

Any rate, I started looking on their support forum (after the process to get access to the support forum), and found a good number of postings regarding Windows 7 and EWQL. Spent the rest of Wed digesting the postings, downloaded the PLAY update and the Instruments update.

 

Late Wednesday, after waiting for responses and getting none, I installed ONLY the PLAY engine in a custom install, got the error message, disregarded it, rebooted. Installed the update - the most likely reason for the errors is that the on DVD version iLock drivers are not certified for Windows 7 64-bit. (Why are error messages always cryptic??). Then I installed all the libraries of sounds.

 

Next, I tried to start PLAY - wouldn't start - got an error message of some problem with the Default Audio Configuration. Tried running it as a VST with the simplest config - ver 1.1 of Cantbile - it RAN. Some dropouts, but Bosendorpher sounds. Posted a message in the support forum about my problem, hoping someone could help. Had a response about bedtime, someone suggested that I re-run the PLAY update again, in repair mode.

 

Started yesterday with that - there were some files transferred. PLAY would finally start. I registered the software, and set up the iLock key. However, the PLAY program seemed to work except that there was no audio (the meters were swinging).

 

I downloaded the new 2.0 free 64-bit version of Cantabile (BTW - this is a great little host program and is now 64bit as well as 32 bit version), went back to the VST - ran fine. Did some diagnosis looking at Cantibile, and figured that maybe my eMu was not receiving on the same pair of ASIO channels that PLAY was sending. Created a strip in the eMu PatchMix app for ASIO in 1/2 (the default for the 1820M is 31/32) - NOW, I have sound. Found out my sequencers still worked (Cubase LE and Sonar 8.5 LE), but the Windows apps no longer got sound, claiming that the driver was in use. This cleared later in the day, and the PLAY did not work again.

 

I have found that, when I open PLAY, I have no audio, but I can go into configure, switch away from the ASIO driver, switch back to the ASIO driver - I have audio.

 

So - at this point, I do have a working system. It would probably have been easier to have just used 64-bit Vista instead (which I could have done).

 

I just have not really had time to evaluate the audio quality of the instruments but first impressions are good.

 

Funny thing - the new DAW has no little buzz of its own like the old computer did - more important, it has a different SOUND. The pianos in my PC3X now sound cleaner and better, with more dynamic range! I know this does not sound reasonable - but it is still true. Doesn't even seem logical, since the eMu converts the analog outs from the PC3 into digital - but there is a difference for some reason.

 

I'm a lot happier with the pair ofr JBL EON 15G2 that I use both for PA and in my shop now. (BTW - when not using the DAW, I run the PC3 through a small Tapco mixer board into the JBL's - it sounds better - don't know why.

 

I have quickly loaded and played all four of the pianos. My first thought was that I finally have some pianos that have a long possible sustain in the upper registers - one of my largest complaints with the hardware keyboards - the place where the PC3 is better by far than the PC2, but still not there.

 

The pianos seem duller sounding than the direct from PC3X pianos - lower range is the same, but not as much bite on the treble. The Bosie sounds just wonderful especially in very soft passages - such a sweet tone. The Yammie won't be my favorite (would probably use it in a band situation, but I'll just use the internal PC3 pianos there). The Steinway is brighter and more brash in general than the Bosie -but when I really pound on the Bosie, it rawks. There is a great dynamic range on the instruments. I find that there is WAY too much convolution reverb by default.

 

I know for sure that I am going to have to work on my technique, the feel is definitely different, and I can tell where the 18 different strikes is a lot more sensitive than the triple strikes in the PC3. I've got to work on getting evenness in pp passages.

 

Additional strangness: Soft pedal and Sustain pedal both work - Sustenudo does not work - don't yet know why - MIDI scope on the Kurzweil says that the proper midi channel and number are being sent. I'll probably ask on the EWQL forums about this. I didn't think that the mod wheel was working for staccato, but am wondering if it works on some pianos but not others, because it definitely works on the Steiner.

 

Enhancements I'd like to see: out of the box Windows 7 install with no problems. At least three band, preferably 9 band eq built into the PLAY engine. Enchancement of my ability to play (oops - I guess that one is up to me instead of the EWQL people).That's where I am at the moment with it. It is going to take me some time, I need to fine-tune each piano that I plan to use to my own personal settings, then save those settings so I can call it up by default. I need to spend some time in the next week on business stuff, and also to start on 2009 business taxes, than personal taxes. I ordered 1G of RAM for my ThinkPad notebook (model R52) that runs XP, and plan to install one (don't have room for them all) piano on it, I have an eMu 1616M for it - but that can wait till I play them enough to decide just which one to put on the notebook.

 

 

[SK]

Sorry to hear you had all those problems.

 

Like you, I had no responses to my questions in the support area on their site. So I called them, and there's a 'live' person who can talk you through the setup or reinstall. The phone # for them is buried in their site and not easily noticeable. Once I got them on the phone, it went smoothly.

 

And my install experience may have been different since I use a Mac.

 

The pedals should work, and the audio should be there in the PLAY program itself and through the DAW. One little glitch in the install will ruin everything.

 

Your impression of the different pianos are the same as mine, and the action feels a lot different from a DP. The Bose is the richest.

 

The tone seems duller than a DP piano, but I think it's just a thicker tone. Like you said, if you lay into it, it brightens up, and I have found the sensitivity graph can brighten up the tone of the Bose, etc. Raising the player perspective mic level a little can also add more tone definition. I also load the full Bose master sample, not the full 88 key sample. It seems to sound better to me.

 

I agree that the default convolution reverb is way too much. I don't use it hardly at all, or I set the knob at just past halfway for minimal effect.

 

Good luck. I'm still enjoying the software myself.

 

[ADino]

Ive come to the conclusion that the EW stuff needs something...Im told an update is coming, as everything I use works fantastic on the quad...except the EW stuff...I shouldve gone w/ VSL...as Ive heard they work better..its a shame though, the EW stuff does sound very good. They just dont work properly...I havent loaded Ivory/IG yet, but everything else Im running is simply fantastic.

Is it me, or does Logic 9 now have better piano's? Theyre terrible on LP7, but at least usable in 9.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I listed all the different issues (and resolutions) in case someone else tries the same thing. When I chose to use Windows 7 instead of Vista, I expected that there just might be some issues - especially in the 64 bit version. The eMu drivers seem to work in Windows 7, but are certified only for Vista and XP. Same with EWQL. Admittedly, the companies should be working on improving this issue - because many of their potential clients will be running the latest platform. Same on the Mac platform, I saw issues on their forums with Snow Lepoard.

 

It is almost amusing - they have a post on their Support Forum telling people that the best way to get assistance is to submit a Support Request rather than asking users on the forum. Sorry - that puppy don't hunt.

 

I have played the pianos a few more times this afternoon - I'll probably use mostly the Steinway and Bosie for my solo work. Loading time is not a problem on this box, it will load any of the sample sets in a minute or less. Running nothing but the piano set, now that I've seen how much RAM is in use, I could have saved myself some coin with 4G of RAM and used 32bit software. But - this system is to carry me for the next 5 years minimum - and purchasing the way I did (HP web site - specials, refurbished, clearance) it didn't cost that much. I was pleasantly surprised when the computer was opened up and I found two 500G WD drives instead of the one that I expected based on the description. Of course, these refurb machines are onesies and twosies usually - the ones with only a single core proc, 160G drive and 2G of RAM were only about $50 cheaper.

 

the EWQL package is definitely an improvement for solo playing over the internal sounds (although they are not bad at all to me).

 

[SK]

...the EW stuff does sound very good. They just dont work properly...

I've heard that's the case with some of the other EW versions and their older software. The full versions are also more computer demanding and can be finicky. I was just reporting on the Gold QL pianos. After the laborious install, they work fine for me.

 

BTW MoodyBluesKeys, I didn't know about the Snow Leopard problems - I haven't installed with the SL CD yet. Maybe I'll hold off longer now.

 

And yep, their Support Forum is awful. Just call them. They can usually walk you through any troubleshooting.

[TWB121234]

I bought the Gold QL Pianos as well. Thanks to SK for doing the original post - great deal for $195. As it so happened, I had just replaced my older iMac with a new 21.5 inch 3.06 GHz 4 gigs of ram running Snow Leopard. The pianos run great on this system both stand alone and in Logic Express. The install was tedious but went without a hitch to my amazement (judging from things I've read).

 

My early impressions of the pianos run about the same as others have stated - certainly "thicker" than the Ivory pianos. They are all fun to play and really all have very different textures. Like others have stated, I'm finding a need to adjust my playing a bit (and probably still in the process of fine tuning the keyboard/velocity/response relationship.

 

I can't tell how these pianos would do live. I hope they get "Receptorized" soon so I can install them on my Receptor and give that try. Although lately for gigs I haven't even been bringing Ivory (in my Receptor - which really runs great BTW). I've just been using my RD 300GX piano - which actually also works really well for the wallpaper small group jazz thing. I'm getting lazy in my old age - geez.

 

Though a lurker much of the time, I really appreciate all that I've learned from the good folks on this form - thanks.