Yamaha CP1 first impressions

[drpopper]

I think Yamaha has really acquitted themselves after the S90XS with these new offerings. This is really something fresh and different that sounds and plays great. I'll probably buy at least one the models. Recommended !

 

I'll buy one too but IMHO Yamaha was never guilty with the S90XS I have been loving mine for the past 3 months. I can't understand any of the complaints against it.

 

[allan_evett]

So, compared to the V-Piano, it's....?

 

.... thought out, design-wise for the player, much better. And it's overall sound/voices makes me think that Yamaha put more time into development/packaging/presentation. I've spent a couple of hours with a V-piano in a store near my home in CO; it's certainly an impressive instrument. But I did get to put in some time over at Yamaha last night, spending about an hour going back and forth between the CP1 and CP5. My impressions, playing-wise are similar to dB's.

The dynamic subtlety of the pianos was the best I've experienced on a DP. The Rhodes voices were amazing: thought I was back on the road in '79 w/my Mark II and MXR Phase 90; it was simply that good.

 

I was impressed with the initial internet videos; blown away in person. This is one, serious piece o' hardware...

 

Have you found differences concerning action and CFIII sound between CP5 and CP1?

 

 

No difference that I could detect between the two regarding the action and CFIII sound.

 

I also played the CP50 for a short time, late Friday. Its' action reminded me somewhat of the P-85 action: not quite as 'quick' as the CP1/CP5, but still very playable. The CFIII piano still sounded great on the CP50. I'm planning to check out the CP50 more thoroughly on Saturday.

[muiriled]

I've always preferred yamaha piano sound but now with improved action and wooden keys yamaha will not have any competitors.

CP1-1 is scheduled to replace my RD700GX this year.

 

[Dana.]

I felt this was definitely Nord's best effort to date piano wise but still not for me because of the Fatar action in addition to the fact that single note lines/runs didn't really "speak" to me. Funny thing, before I even sat down to play the new Nord, I asked the Rep guy if the action was still the Fatar. His reply was, "yeah, why mess with a great thing"?

Dave, is the action the same as the Stage or different? Can anyone get clarification on what type of Fatar action is used?

[Dana.]

Nord guy said $2500 for nord pno

Is this street price? As compared to the features and price of both the Electro 3 and the Stage, I think this is very overpriced. This is a stripped-down Electro with weighted action and should be priced accordingly.

[Nicky]

D-Bon-the Nord Rep said $2500 would be street price....seemed like he was also guessing, so give or take a bit. Also said that the action is identical to the stage.....which, like Dave Ferris, is the deal breaker for me.

The 1st Piano (Yamaha I think) is their best piano to date, very full sounding across the entire keybd. The action, although musical to play, is not very piano-like, too light. For me, why bother having 88 keys when it really doesn't feel like a piano.

[Dana.]

For me, why bother having 88 keys when it really doesn't feel like a piano.

+1,000. This is a fatal error on Nord's part. The whole point of the Stage's action is to be a compromise between playing piano and organ. As there's no organ on the Piano, this was a golden opportunity for Nord to get the action right by using Fatar's best piano action. Nord blew it. Thanks for the info Nicky.

[Aidan]

I've always preferred yamaha piano sound but now with improved action and wooden keys yamaha will not have any competitors.

CP1-1 is scheduled to replace my RD700GX this year.

 

Plenty of time to work out some better anagrams, then

[eric]

Markyboard likes CP1

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs213.snc3/22061_1335213348450_1474562130_30976559_1444572_n.jpg

 

Bobadoshe likes CP1

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs293.ash1/22061_1335213628457_1474562130_30976562_4726026_n.jpg

 

I liked it too.

[gangsu]

I've always preferred yamaha piano sound but now with improved action and wooden keys yamaha will not have any competitors.

CP1-1 is scheduled to replace my RD700GX this year.

 

Plenty of time to work out some better anagrams, then

 

Haha. Nice one.

[burningbusch]

No difference that I could detect between the two regarding the action and CFIII sound.

 

Good to hear. It's what I was expecting but nice to have it confirmed.

 

Busch.

[Dana.]

I've always preferred yamaha piano sound but now with improved action and wooden keys yamaha will not have any competitors.

CP1-1 is scheduled to replace my RD700GX this year.

 

Plenty of time to work out some better anagrams, then

Oh, snap!

[burningbusch]

Based on the photo above it looks like the CP-1 does not have the ability to attach a music rack while the other two do.

 

Other differences: the CP-1 does not have dedicated knobs/switches for the part volume (6 on the CP-5 and 3 on the CP-50) and also lacks dedicated master EQ knobs while the CP-5 has five and the CP-50 three.

 

Busch.

[Bobadohshe]

Reading the entirety of this thread for the first time, I have to laugh at everyone who is caught up over the mod wheel omission. Like dB said, it's not in the character of this keyboard to have a mod wheel. Funnily enough I also only reached for the pitch bend once, and that was to assure myself that it was there, and I never touched it again. You certainly wouldn't use it to mess with any of the onboard sounds, and as a MIDI controller, sure it would be nice to have, but so would 8 assignable faders, and 8 assignable knobs, and 8 assignable pads, but that's not this keyboard's job!

 

I was fortunate enough to stumble into the Yamaha room right when Markyboard, Eric and Allan Evett were receiving a private demo. Markyboard was putting the thing through it's paces and loving it. When I hopped up to play it, I played a couple runs and chords and freaked everyone out because I wasn't blown away by its sound at first whereas they all loved it. After 15 more seconds I realized that this was because of the Yamaha PA speakers they had it running through. I'm used to the Accugrooves and their pristine sound, so the sounds of the Yammie speakers caught me off guard. I quickly got over that and then loved playing the board. The pianos were all great and very playable at every part of their range. The EPs were great.

 

You know what sounded incredible on this board?? the DX 7 SOUNDS!! Legit FM synthesis going on, and it was sweet and wonderful. I played some 'SVW' and Doogie Howseresque stuff and it was sweet and not shrill.

 

There is no comparison with the V-piano. Too bad for Roland. This thing totally murders the V-piano, which I played and really wasn't impressed with. It's more versatile, it's cheaper, and it instantly makes the V-piano seem like technology from 3 years ago.

 

Unfortunately, I can't afford one of these, so I'll be stuck with my CP-33. By the way, the action on the CP-50 seemed very comparable to the action on my CP-33. The CP-1 and CP-5 actions are both lighter and more natural.

[Bill H.]

By the way, the action on the CP-50 seemed very comparable to the action on my CP-33. The CP-1 and CP-5 actions are both lighter and more natural.

 

This is music to my ears. A bit lighter than Yamaha's P and CP action would be perfect for my style. And - wooden keys to boot!

 

I can't wait to get my hands on the CP-5. I'm getting too old for GAS - but this is bringing them ol' pains back!

 

Did any of you catch whether or not the AWM2 (Motif) sounds are editable from a computer? That would just be icing on the cake.

[Federico78]

So, compared to the V-Piano, it's....?

 

.... thought out, design-wise for the player, much better. And it's overall sound/voices makes me think that Yamaha put more time into development/packaging/presentation. I've spent a couple of hours with a V-piano in a store near my home in CO; it's certainly an impressive instrument. But I did get to put in some time over at Yamaha last night, spending about an hour going back and forth between the CP1 and CP5. My impressions, playing-wise are similar to dB's.

The dynamic subtlety of the pianos was the best I've experienced on a DP. The Rhodes voices were amazing: thought I was back on the road in '79 w/my Mark II and MXR Phase 90; it was simply that good.

 

I was impressed with the initial internet videos; blown away in person. This is one, serious piece o' hardware...

 

Have you found differences concerning action and CFIII sound between CP5 and CP1?

 

No difference that I could detect between the two regarding the action and CFIII sound.

 

I also played the CP50 for a short time, late Friday. Its' action reminded me somewhat of the P-85 action: not quite as 'quick' as the CP1/CP5, but still very playable. The CFIII piano still sounded great on the CP50. I'm planning to check out the CP50 more thoroughly on Saturday.

 

 

 

Thanks a lot Allan, it's what I wanted to hear. So the comparison chart says the truth. Good!

 

 

[madshi]

You know what sounded incredible on this board?? the DX 7 SOUNDS!! Legit FM synthesis going on, and it was sweet and wonderful. I played some 'SVW' and Doogie Howseresque stuff and it was sweet and not shrill.

Did you have a chance to compare the DX7 sounds between CP1 and CP5? The reason I'm asking is that this is probably the biggest difference between the two boards. The CP1 uses "SCM" for the DX7 sounds, while the CP5 uses conventional sampling, according to the Yamaha specs.

 

Thanks!

 

BTW, I don't think real FM is going on here. I believe the CP1's SCM is a mixture of sampling and modeling. But that's not really important, as long as it sounds good...

[Martin Hines]

Reading the entirety of this thread for the first time, I have to laugh at everyone who is caught up over the mod wheel omission.

 

Pitch Bend and Modulation Wheels are important to the segment of potential buyers who want to use the board as their main keyboard controller. Given Yamaha included the pitch wheel, would it really significantly added to the overall price to add a mod wheel?

[HammondDave]

No, I was played the CP-1 and the CP-5. The sides of the keys where white where the sides of the keys on the CP-1 were wood. I assumed that this meant the CP-5 keys were plastic. I may be wrong...

 

Regarding the Nord Piano, the sound and quality is no where near the Yamahas.

[Dave Bryce]

BTW, I don't think real FM is going on here. I believe the CP1's SCM is a mixture of sampling and modeling.

Unless I misunderstood, the guys from Yamaha said it's real FM. It certainly sounds real.

 

I'm not a big fan of FM DX samples -the don't have the same life as a DX7. This did. It was a ton of fun to play - especially stacked on top of the CFIIIS.

 

dB

[dewster]

BTW, I don't think real FM is going on here. I believe the CP1's SCM is a mixture of sampling and modeling.

Unless I misunderstood, the guys from Yamaha said it's real FM. It certainly sounds real.

 

I'm not a big fan of FM DX samples -the don't have the same life as a DX7. This did. It was a ton of fun to play - especially stacked on top of the CFIIIS.

 

dB

Next time you talk to them, please ask them how a sample based playback engine fully supports FM synthesis. No disrespect, but it just doesn't make any sense. I think they're blowing smoke, and I think you are letting them off the hook by not asking critical enough questions.

 

If they're doing a real DX7 then why don't they do a real DX7? Let us upload the bazillion patches that exist for it. Why are we limited to 4 variations with parameters that don't make any sense from an FM perspective? Because it's sampled, that's why.

[Dave Bryce]

Because it's sampled, that's why.

It certainly sounds and played much better than anything I've ever heard try to replicate the DX7 EP sound. If they've managed to achieve that and the performance of the other sounds in the instrument with just sample playback, I'd be very surprised....just as I'd be surprised to learn that the Yamaha guys whom I've known for more than a few years were "blowing smoke".

 

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

 

dB

 

 

[dewster]

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

Thanks.

 

When I say "sample playback" I mean the way SCM does it, which I believe is based on spectral envelope analysis - but who really knows? And Yamaha isn't telling, so we all just sit around making educated guesses, which is part of the problem.

 

But SCM almost undoubtedly starts with a sample, which is inconsistent with FM synthesis. So either Yamaha is lying in their literature when they say the DX7 sounds are based on SCM, or they are lying to you when they say there is a real FM synth in there. For the sake of your own credibility, could you please ask them a bit more pointedly? It really doesn't make any sense.

[timwat]

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

For the sake of your own credibility, could you please ask them a bit more pointedly? It really doesn't make any sense.

 

Unanswered questions don't bring Dave's credibility into doubt, dude. I get the drift of your argument, but I find it interesting the first place you're going is 1) Yamaha is lying and 2) our venerable moderator is either gullible or in on the ruse.

 

The main point of this thread is db's excitement over the playability of this very serious instrument...which doesn't purport to be all things to all players (i.e, backwards compatibility with the old DX7). Rather, the playability of the AP is the main suit of the board, and the FM simulation/emulation/re-creation is an interesting bonus - and if it renders (by whatever means) a more playable, DX-like nuance for the player...then why does it ultimately matter what technical means are used to provide it?

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

For the sake of your own credibility, could you please ask them a bit more pointedly?

Since all I've done is repeat what I was told, I'm kinda not so worried about my credibility...but thanks for thinking of me.

 

dB

[dewster]

Unanswered questions don't bring Dave's credibility into doubt, dude. I get the drift of your argument, but I find it interesting the first place you're going is 1) Yamaha is lying and 2) our venerable moderator is either gullible or in on the ruse.

So you don't care if Yamaha is possibly feeding you a line?

 

The main point of this thread is db's excitement over the playability of this very serious instrument.

Yea, I got that part.

[Bobadohshe]

Unanswered questions don't bring Dave's credibility into doubt, dude. I get the drift of your argument, but I find it interesting the first place you're going is 1) Yamaha is lying and 2) our venerable moderator is either gullible or in on the ruse.

So you don't care if Yamaha is possibly feeding you a line?

 

dB is busy as hell at the NAMM show, and he may have misunderstood what the guys were saying exactly about the FM part in the probably really fast conversation he had with them. I'm not saying he DID, I'm saying he might have. He prob doesn't care too much though, and I'll let him speak for himself.

 

I just don't want you to get the wrong idea as someone with 2 posts to your name or think of this place as a hostile environment. It isn't! Also, there's a good chance Dave won't make it back over to Yamaha to ask those guys your question, so don't take that personally either -- Yamaha isn't even in the convention center, it's next door in a hotel, so it's far off the beaten path!

 

Now that you've pointedly raised the question, I am interested to know the answer myself. Are we talking about full blown FM synthesis, or are we talking about sample manipulation. We may have to wait until after the NAMM show to get the answer to your question as there's only one day left and people who are still there probably have their own business to attend to. It is hard to believe it's straight samples, because it did sound so sweet and organic. One thing's for sure, it sounds very sexy and samples or not, it's unlike anything I've heard that's not the real thing.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[dewster]

Since all I've done is repeat what I was told, I'm kinda not so worried about my credibility

Credibility is putting your reputation behind everything you write.

[dewster]

dB is busy as hell at the NAMM show, and he may have misunderstood what the guys were saying exactly about the FM part in the probably really fast conversation he had with them. I'm not saying he DID, I'm saying he might have. He prob doesn't care too much though, and I'll let him speak for himself.

I've hear the "real FM synth under there" other places and I have a hard time believing it for technical reasons. The MIDI implementation of the CP1 DX7 sounds are very inconsistent with an FM synth. It could be true I guess if Yamaha is playing fast-and-loose with what SCM actually is.

 

I just don't want you to get the wrong idea as someone with 2 posts to your name or think of this place as a hostile environment. It isn't! Also, there's a good chance Dave won't make it back over to Yamaha to ask those guys your question, so don't take that personally either -- Yamaha isn't even in the convention center, it's next door in a hotel, so it's far off the beaten path!

No, it is largely me being hostile. But I just don't understand how people let DP manufacturers off so easily. If I were at NAMM I'd be holding their feet to the fire over what day of the week it was.

 

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks! I'll be here all week, try the veal!

[timwat]

Unanswered questions don't bring Dave's credibility into doubt, dude. I get the drift of your argument, but I find it interesting the first place you're going is 1) Yamaha is lying and 2) our venerable moderator is either gullible or in on the ruse.

So you don't care if Yamaha is possibly feeding you a line?

 

Good question. Really, at the end of the day I don't. But let me clarify. I am interested at the real answer from a rather removed "academic curiosity" interest. But that's about it.

 

I should also relate that I've managed enough marketing guys and gals to grant the possibility of a cadre of folks telling NAMM attendees whatever they think they want to hear. It would be disappointing but not unheard of. I would be very surprised if engineering types follow suit. If there are wires crossed, personally I would suspect some marketing types have misheard the engineering types...I've had to deal with that kind of thing a lot in my career.

 

But at the end of the day, none of this mitigates the playing experience of the CP1...whether it's FM, SCM, PCM or black magic, it's going to play like what it plays like. And the only thing I'm interested in (with regard to stage pianos) is how close it comes to giving me that ephemeral "real instrument" experience.

 

If Yamaha is feeding me a line, it won't change the dynamics, touch, response, tactile feedback and "instrument-ness" of the unit one iota.