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Please help me find some jazz I can get down with.


simpleman3441

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I watched that Pat Metheny video where he talks about Kenny G and I would agree with what he says, but if you don't know anyone that shares your taste how do you find what you want from jazz? I studied Jazz at school and I can't get into a lot of it. The classic stuff like Django and Wes doesn't really speak to me. I went to a jam session and heard some high school kids rippin on some standards and even the more advanced college kids I was with were impressed. Haven't been able to find anything that grooved like those kids did though... I did think Methenys The Way Up was pretty cool, and the stuff with Mehldau, too. Guys like Mehldau and Rosenwinkel are a little more interesting to me. Kurts Whispers of Love is very cool harmonically, but does anyone know anything that is interesting harmonically and that hits hard and grooves with some nice ostinato style rhythms in the drums and bass? As complex and impressive as traditional jazz drumming is, I have a hard time gettin into it. I want to find some jazz that really pulls me in and keeps my attention. It seems that a little repetition goes a long way towards pulling me in. I can get down with some of the most basic things

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkbDX_nP9Yg

 

Lol I know. The drums in this Martino/Scofield thing are gettin towards what I like.

 

[video:youtube]

 

I like some Medeski Martin and Wood stuff, too. I'm just curious what suggestions you guys might have. Thanks!

We cannot accelerate the growth of a tree by pulling on its branches. - Ricardo Iznaola
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Maybe some Medeski, Scofield Martin & Wood (the trio Medeski, Martin & Wood plus John Scofield)?

 

Ever give Miles Davis' Kind of Blue a good listen? No guitar, but lots of really, really good music that doesn't fit any one style or category.

 

Does Jeff Beck's fusion period qualify for you?

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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IF Wes Montgomery doesn't speak to you, then you haven't heard the right stuff by him.

I highly recommend "The Further Adventures of Jimmy & Wes", and album he did with organist Jimmy Smith. Anyone who can listen to that and come away thinking anything but "man, was that great!" needs help. Badly.

Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

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I second the Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" suggestion, and maybe some John Coltrane "My Favorite Things". They are both are groove oriented and the chord changes aren't as complex as some of the bebop era material. I love jazz but like the horn players more than the guitar players for the most part. The late 50'd early 60's had lots of good stuff. Try some Dave Brubeck like "Take Five" or some Stan Getz bossa nova.

 

You don't have to like jazz, but it's one of those aquired tastes that once you get into it, the music is well worth the effort. Just keep an open mind, if you are coming from a pop/ rock background, then the harmonic and ryhthmic complexity of jazz can take some getting used to.

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The classic stuff like Django and Wes doesn't really speak to me. I went to a jam session and heard some high school kids rippin on some standards and even the more advanced college kids I was with were impressed.

I'm guessing those students heavily studied Django, Charlie Christian, Wes, etc. The founding fathers of any instrument create the vocabulary that future generations use to communicate. The better you understand and embrace the vocabulary, the more fluently, effortlessly and creatively you can speak in your own "voice".

 

does anyone know anything that is interesting harmonically and that hits hard and grooves with some nice ostinato style rhythms in the drums and bass?

You'd probably love Charlie Hunter. Plays an 8 string fanned fret Novax, 3 bass strings/5 guitar strings. For parties, I often play "Natty Dread", his complete cover of Bob Marley album. Hunter runs the top end through a Leslie for a thick B3 texture. Wicked grooves.

 

"We Live Here" is Metheny's most groove oriented album. Interesting harmonically? Check. Hits hard with nice ostinato grooves in the drums and bass? Check.

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Be patient with me guys. I'm really extremely interested in finding what I'm lookin for. I think if I can find something that I can get into it will lead to my finding more enjoyment in Jazz. I love the pentatonic, but I'm becoming bored with it as a player and am looking for inspiration. It's out there I'm sure. I'm only offering my opinion as a guide to help you with your suggestions. Hope no one finds me offensive.

 

Fatburger didn't turn up anything on youtube, so that will have to take some further research. Billster: The first vid was an awesome groove. I loved the drums. Totally can respect the chops there but none of the noodling grabbed me in the trumpet or guitar. I'll prolly need to develop my palette a bit to get what's goin on there. The intro to the tune by Weather Report was real cool, but when the horn hits it went south for me. Frisell was tonally/harmonically interesting. Wish it grooved more. I think I would have trouble listening to it for extended periods.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll have to check out more at another time.

We cannot accelerate the growth of a tree by pulling on its branches. - Ricardo Iznaola
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lightbulb.gif Maybe what you need to do is make the kind of Jazz/Music that you like for yourself... :cool:

 

Borrow from what you do like about some of the jazz and fusion stuff that you've listened to, and build on that. Then let us and the rest of the world hear it. :rawk::cool:

 

I know you're knowledgeable about music and playing the guitar and all (and could probably give me some lessons!), but check out this great lesson 'page- simple in concept, but huge in possible application...

 

Chris Juergensen The ii - V - I Chord Progression

 

It's not just the chord-progression lesson, but the chord voicing part- particularly the "two note voicings"- that stands out here for me. I took those, swapped the lower of the two-notes up an octave, and threw the root underneath, for some of my now favorite two and three voice grips; they really lend themselves to slipping around the fretboard for voice-leading, general jazziness, and spare comping that won't muddy things up (especially along with bass and/or keys).

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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lightbulb.gif Maybe what you need to do is make the kind of Jazz/Music that you like for yourself... :cool:

 

Borrow from what you do like about some of the jazz and fusion stuff that you've listened to, and build on that. Then let us and the rest of the world hear it. :rawk::cool:

 

You're probably right about this and I have considered it. My jazz chops truly are horid though. Which is really what the purpose of this thread was. I thought maybe if I could find some jazz that speaks to me I could understand it better and build my chops. Which negates this next quote. :)

 

I know you're knowledgeable about music and playing the guitar and all (and could probably give me some lessons!)

 

I will definitely check out this lesson. Probably as soon as I fix my amp issue.

We cannot accelerate the growth of a tree by pulling on its branches. - Ricardo Iznaola
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Scofield was going to be my first suggestion (the organist in that video has a wicked left hand, unless there's a bass player hiding in the shadows!).

 

The organist is Joey Defrancesco. He's hitting most of the bass notes from pedals located under the organ. I saw him live last October at Club Coca Cola in NYC. Nope, no bass player anywhere within 500 feet of that show... at least one that wasn't playing, hah. :D

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I want to find some jazz that really pulls me in and keeps my attention. It seems that a little repetition goes a long way towards pulling me in. I can get down with some of the most basic things

 

I had to get into Straight Ahead Jazz through Fusion first.

 

You might like some of the 70s albums by Jean-Luc-Ponty. He improvised very melodically and many of his tunes are two chord vamps. The guitarists Rock out a bit. Enigmatic Ocean is great as are Cosmic Messenger and A Taste For Passion. He has several goovin' tunes on his albums.

A Jazz/Chord Melody Master-my former instructor www.robertconti.com

 

(FKA GuitarPlayerSoCal)

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I had to get into Straight Ahead Jazz through Fusion first.
Yeah, i was just going to suggest fusion. Even someone like Guthrie Govan, who definitley leans towards the rock side than the jazz side. Or Scott Henderson?

 

Reading the thread title I was also going to suggest Joe Pass, specifically his album Virtuoso. He's definitely my favorite "traditional" jazz player - but he may not be what you're looking for.

Mutiple award-winning, original BRC (blues/rock/country) at http://www.zeyerband.com, http://www.myspace.com/zeyerband and http://www.soundclick.com/zeyer - check us out!
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If I read your first post right, you`re looking for jazz that goes places harmonically, but still has enough groove to get the fingers snapping and head nodding? if it doesn`t have to be guitar-centric there`s groups like Incognito, Sound Tribe Sector 9 (introduced by a buddy recently, great band). I was going to recommend Russian Circles, not jazz exactly but interesting sounds-however I want to hear more of them myself before an unqualified endorsement.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

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www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491

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Kind of Blue is some of the coolest jazz I know. If it hit a little harder I would probably soil myself.

 

I've got the Medeski, Scofield, Martin, & Wood album. At least the only one I know of. It's pretty good, too.

 

What Jeff Beck would you suggest specifically?

 

I love me some 5/4 time, but I have heard Take 5 so many times in my life it no longer has any novelty for me.

 

Watchin Charlie Hunter just makes my hand hurt more! lol That's pretty cool stuff. Much respect there.

 

I'm definitely listenin to all your suggestions so keep em coming!

We cannot accelerate the growth of a tree by pulling on its branches. - Ricardo Iznaola
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Hmmm, from what you`re saying I`m thinking more bop than rock or funk-

the only thing that comes to mind offhand is Benson Burner, one of George B.`s earlier collections.

Maybe Chick Corea`s electric band.

After that I think things get less guitar-oriented-Sonny Stitt? Lee Konitz perhaps?

 

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

Skipsounds on Soundclick:

www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491

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If you're wearing out "Kind of Blue", dig into more Miles especially all the "-in'" albums ("Walkin", "Cookin'", etc.) and anything with the Hancock/Shorter/Carter/Williams band. There's also Cannonball Adderley w/Miles "Somethin' Else".

 

I'm not even going to touch Coltrane. Waters are too deep.

 

Just off the top of my head, more heavy hitters (in no order):

Herbie Hancock "Maiden Voyage", "Empyrean Isles"

Oliver Nelson "The Blues and the Abstract Truth"

Horace Silver "Song for My Father", "Cape Verdean Blues"

Charles Mingus "Mingus Ah Um"

Sonny Rollins "Tenor Madness", "Way Out West", "Live at the Village Vanguard"

Wayne Shorter "Ju Ju", "Speak No Evil"

Dexter Gordon "Go"

Lee Morgan "The Sidewinder"

Joe Henderson "In 'n Out"

Larry Young "Unity"

Freddie Hubbard "Red Clay"

 

In a modern vein, you'd probably dig Joshua Redman's "Elastic". Anything of his with the band that has Sam Yahel on keys grooves hard.

 

A 2009 album I just picked up is pianist Robert Glasper "Double Booked". I like it immensely. The 2nd 1/2 of the album has a deep hip hop influence.

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The Herbie Hancock reference reminds me that nobody suggested "Headhunters" yet. Herbie Hancock - Headhunters There's some groove. :thu:

 

Yeah, I left that one out. It's the "Kind of Blue" or "Time Out" of jazz/funk: everyone has worn out a copy. There was a lot a great Herbie in the later '60s and early '70s including "Speak Like a Child", "Fat Albert Rotunda", "Mwandishi", "Headhunters", and "Thrust".

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Frisell was tonally/harmonically interesting. Wish it grooved more. I think I would have trouble listening to it for extended periods.

 

There's a trio album with Bill Frisell, Ginger Baker & Charlie Haden called Going Back Home which is pretty groove oriented. It's under Ginger's name. Frisell has a huge range & is deep into a sort of Americana thing now which may go down easier with those who have a hard time liking jazz. His tone & touch are just drop dead gorgeous. He has covered everything from Dylan to Madonna to Aaron Copland to cowboy songs, so don't dismiss him as just a jazzer.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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BTW, it sort of goes without saying that 'Kind Of Blue' is absolutely essential for anyone involved in the culture of the last half century in the Western world, (as are 'Dark Side Of The Moon' & 'Sgt. Pepper',) but I would say it's more of a place to end up in seeking familiarity with jazz, rather than a starting point. Since you won't find a finer expression of the jazz idiom than 'Kind Of Blue', you might not want to jump off from there, only to find that everything else disappoints slightly in comparison.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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Ginger Baker? De Crem? That sounds interesting.

 

I really like Charles Mingus. I've tried so hard to get my hands on a copy of Three or Four Shades of Blue. Heard that album once and it was real cool. Can't find it anywhere.

 

I'm gonna have to make a list and go to the library... It's gettin way too hard to keep up with you guys! lol

We cannot accelerate the growth of a tree by pulling on its branches. - Ricardo Iznaola
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Find a radio station that plays some jazz & just listen til "it" hits you. That's really the fastest way to get exposed to a lot of stuff.

Read DownBeat magazine, esp. the record review section (you can prolly find it at the local library...or even just check online at http://downbeat.com/). Their writers are fairly cogent &, though referential to jazz history, it's easy to get the gist of their comments.

When something seems interesting find an online sample & check it out.

 

From that Scofield vid you posted, I suspect you might like organ-groove bands like Jimmy Smith, etc.

 

On the other hand your mention of Mingus suggests you may be open to something more experimental.

Do you prefer "busy" or spacious ?

Harmonic explorations or swinging rhythm ?

Guitar or any instrument ?

 

Ever hear Thelonious Monk? Most of his music's not hard'n'heavy with the rhythm section but his music has some general similarities to Mingus's...in, ya know, that post-bop, anything might happen way.

 

T. Monk/"Epistrophy"

 

 

d=halfnote
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You might like some of Bill Bruford's albums, where he was the bandleader; his guitarists Allan Holdsworth (!) and "the unknown" John Clark, and bassist Jeff Berlin, weren't too shabby, either... Try out the Berlin-penned Bruford classic, "Joe Frazier"... :thu::cool:

 

There's a wicked, chops-monster fusion band called Brand-X; I haven't even ever (ever!) heard their recorded music, but I have seen 'em live- and they are bad mo'fo's!

 

Drifting pretty far across the jazz/rock/fusion solar-system, but still kinda jazzy, seek out the instrumental "Three Minutes of Pure Entertainment" by David Torn, from his late '80s album Cloud About Mercury. Some jerk stole mine.

 

I heard some mp3 sample of guitarist Bireli Lagrene (and violinist Stephen Grappelli?) playing live onstage with a BIG big-band; they absolutely RULED wailing on the standard "Cherokee", I think that one track could win you over to big-band swing!

 

Kind of Blue is some of the coolest jazz I know. If it hit a little harder I would probably soil myself.

 

Well, there ya go; whip up some more rockin' versions- still with a sense of swing, but swingin' like Babe Ruth crossed with the Hulk- for a place to start with creating your own special blend.

 

You might also check out the Ken Burns JAZZ series John Coltrane 'best of' CD, a great introduction and overview; the only thing missing is the 'Trane masterpiece and tour de force "Giant Steps", a sore omission, not included due to legal rights hassles. But other great tunes made it, including the timeless masterwork "My Favorite Things"; few "covers" have ever been so incredible and groundbreaking, the only other in its league (albeit a rock classic) that comes immediately to my mind is Hendrix' take on Dylan's "All Along The Watchtower".

 

Years ago, a guy named Scott Jones posted a killer version of Coltrane's "Giant Steps" here on the GPF (I'll hafta try and find it for ya), soloing throughout on guitar with authority; the harmolodic twists and turns just wring my cerebral cortex and squeeze out dopamine! (Oddly, the verse parts of Bob Marley's "Waiting In Vain" have a very similar effect on me, something about the harmonic motion or somethin'; weird, huh?)

 

Anyways, there's another tune for you to tackle and bend to your own muse.

 

I've got the Medeski, Scofield, Martin, & Wood album. At least the only one I know of. It's pretty good, too.

 

Another influence to borrow from.

 

What Jeff Beck would you suggest specifically?

 

Blow By Blow, 1975, and Wired, 1976.

 

I love me some 5/4 time, but I have heard Take 5 so many times in my life it no longer has any novelty for me.

 

See Bruford.

 

Watchin Charlie Hunter just makes my hand hurt more! lol That's pretty cool stuff. Much respect there.

 

I loved his album The Return of the Candyman; some jerk stole it.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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www.robertconti.com check out this website...you may find some interesting backing tracks you can play along with and have fun with it...

(found this site courtesy of GuitarPlayerFL)...sample tracks will let you see if it interests you at all since you already teach...

Take care, Larryz
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I certainly agree with all the choices mentioned. For electric stuff, you might consider Wayne Krantz, especially Two Drink Minimum and some of the newer stuff only available on this website. I love his Long to Be Loose album but thats less funky and more cerebral than 2 Drink Minimum - but it has very interesting time signatures (Wayne toured with Steely Dan for a while in the 1990's).

 

You might also like the electric period Miles, especially We Want Miles, live with Mike Stern's guitar all over the place.

 

And how about some John McLaughlin? Maybe Electric Guitarist or Electric Dreams, for starters, or the first two Mahavishnu Orchestra albums, The Inner Mounting Flame or Birds of Fire.

 

And for more "classic" jazz - check out anything by Tal Farlo.

Thats a lot of stuff to absorb.

 

Good luck and have fun

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