On stage: Mac Mini...or Receptor...or...?

[jarrell]

Another thing to consider with all the options available is latency.

 

My guess would be that Receptor is the only device approaching the reactivity of a dedicated hardware instrument.

... and another is reboot time, Receptor is pretty fast (under 5 seconds I think).

[mcgoo]

Another thing to consider with all the options available is latency.

 

My guess would be that Receptor is the only device approaching the reactivity of a dedicated hardware instrument.

... and another is reboot time, Receptor is pretty fast (under 5 seconds I think).

 

yeah, both of things are issues for me. I use a Laptop for my sounds live. Love the sounds, but my response is always a little sluggish. On the odd occasion I've had a crash, reboot time, along with reloading my template (with large sample banks) takes almost 5 minutes! I have a multi purpose module tied into my rig as a "just in case".

[vihreamies]

Thanks all,

 

Things that are bothering me:

 

*Would the soundcard of the Mini be enough? Noise issues? Latency issues? I'd need a midi interface anyway(?), but if I'd need a external firewire soundcard, things will turn out to be quite expensive then. I have RME multiface right now, but it ain't firewire...

 

*Does Receptor really works that great, as they are telling...5sec reboot etc. I really hope someone Receptor user would have comments on this!

 

best,

-Vm

[Bronks]

Thanks all,

 

*Does Receptor really works that great, as they are telling...5sec reboot etc. I really hope someone Receptor user would have comments on this!

 

best,

-Vm

 

This really is a question tonysounds would be great to answer. He helped me when I was considering Receptor.

 

I have only few gigs experience with mine, but what I can say: 5 sec reboot - really?

 

The greatness of Receptor depends on use of it. If you run large sample libraries, like Ivory, it takes a while to load the patches. I use 16 voice snapshots to avoid loading times. That way it works great for me. I just change midi channels, not patches, during gig.

[ADino]

I use Rec as mentioned earlier..Ive never had to reboot it on a gig, but I do use a lot less than some of the guys here. Im not running any multi's etc, and I simply run Ivory..Ive had mine for awhile now and it seems to be ok..I treat it simply as a piano module. I have no latency, but I did speak w/Muse back when setting it up and the tech gave me some advice on settings.

 

As far as an interface mentioned above, I think you def need an interface as after speaking w/guys who dont use them, lets just say you are much better off using one..

 

And Bronks, thats a great idea changing midi channels, have to give that a try.

[TechEverlasting]

The 5 second reboot time for the Receptor assumes that you aren't using any samples. If you've got a multi with Ivory and some Kontakt libraries it could take around two minutes. Bear in mind that a Windows based system would still take far longer to reboot and load the same material, and would probably have to reboot more often.

[vihreamies]

Good points!

 

Feels like Rec have a good reputation and that it would be the wisest choice at this point.

 

Too bad I can't afford a new one, but have to start looking for oldies in the ebay. Any other places I should look for?

 

And, If I bought a Rec from USA, I'll need to change the power for that, since I'm living in Europe. Have to ask from Muse Research techs about that, if there would be some other difficulties aswell.

 

The Soundslate seems interesting, but it can take time before it's in the market, and I'll find old Rec cheaper than new Soundslate anyway.

 

best,

-Vm

[Bronks]

Good points!

 

And, If I bought a Rec from USA, I'll need to change the power for that, since I'm living in Europe. Have to ask from Muse Research techs about that, if there would be some other difficulties aswell.

 

-Vm

 

When I ordered mine from USA, they where wise enough to put European standard power supply there. (I live in Finland.)

[burningbusch]

Latency is found in all systems. Testing with my Motif-R XS I found 7-8 msec roundtrip latency. This is about the best you're going to find with hardware systems. Some older synths are higher. With my MacBook I was at 28 msec with a buffer setting of 32 samples. I suspect any computer-based system is going to be in that ball park, including the Mac Mini and the OpenLabs SoundSlate. The Receptor might do better than this, but I'm betting it's closer to the MacBook than the Motif. Now before some of you go freaking out about this remember a) playing a soft synth at 32 sample buffer can feel very responsive. It can feel like no latency (depending on your sensitivity to latency) and b) my testing was roundtrip, i.e. a series of MIDI notes on a track, sent out to the synth and the audio output then recorded back into the DAW. Even though I use Protools TDM (which is the lowest latency DAW available) there is still some additional latency inherent in this testing process.

 

Increasing the buffer size from 32 to 64 samples does not double latency. It only increases it by about 2.5 msec. Also, as learjeff has pointed out numerous times in the past, the distance from your speakers is another source of latency. Each foot adds ~ 1 msec. I keep my monitor VERY close to my ears. Another way to look at it is if your drummer is 10 feet away and cracks the snare, there's 10 msec before the sound reaches you ear. These are very small units of time. There is a point where latency becomes noticeable but that can vary from player to player.

 

The five second boot time on the Receptor sounds optimistic to me. I had one, but never measured it. That's just part of the story any way. You still need to load in the sample libraries. My Macbook takes 45 seconds to boot and another 1 min 20 seconds to load Ableton Live and my complete set up which is Ivory, Scarbee Rhodes and Wurly and many more sample-based sounds. So a total of about two minutes. I plan on moving to an SSD at some point and I expect my load/boot times to decrease significantly. Check out the boot times on modern ROMplers like the Korg M3 BEFORE you load in any samples. You'll be amazed. And if I do lose power, the MacBook will continue to run uninterrupted. I don't like being in the dark and not having a monitor and keyboard available in case something isn't 100%. I do load the soft synths and then rarely touch the laptop for the rest of the night. Everything is controlled from my keyboard controller (RD300GX). The laptop is connected to my StudioFlyer rack.

 

I recommend Ableton Live over MainStage. I find it to be more stable and more resource friendly. Live works well if you have a controller/keyboard that supports zones. If I didn't have a zone controller, I would still probably use Plogue Bidule rather than MainStage. Ableton Live just does not give me any problems. It never fails.

 

The MuseBox makes more sense for the OP than the Receptor. It is scheduled to be released in the 1st quarter of 2010. More info here as well info on the new relationship with Peavey.

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

Soundslate has been available for purchase at the time it was announced last November.

 

Busch.

[GovernorSilver]

As Busch says, my Korg M3 takes a little over 5 seconds to boot up when I hit the power switch. Part of it might be loading up samples from the M3 Xpanded library that I keep on the USB drive that I have dedicated to the M3.

 

The MuseBox sounds interesting. More choices = better.

[vihreamies]

Thanks Busch! Great input!

-Vm

[ADino]

Yea, but they been talking about the Musebox since last spring..I havent seen it yet...

[vihreamies]

Well, this is quite stupid question since we haven't seen the Box yet, but would the Musebox play only 1 plug-in at the time? I guess I could, infact, live with that, but was hoping to have a "mellotron zone" on my 88 keyboard.

 

Aargh, maybe I still have to take laptop to stage for a couple of months to see things happening on the field...

 

Byt the way, Bronks, what city you are living in? Finland is familiar to me, as you propably guessed from my nickname.

 

-Vm

[Bronks]

Byt the way, Bronks, what city you are living in? Finland is familiar to me, as you propably guessed from my nickname.

 

-Vm

 

Yes, I quessed that;)

 

I live right next to Turku.

[GovernorSilver]

Yea, but they been talking about the Musebox since last spring..I havent seen it yet...

 

I didn't know Peavey was involved. Two companies collaborating on one product is sure to delay the launch of that product.

[burningbusch]

Here's the original MuseBox announcement from Jan. 2009 where it states they expect a Q1 2010 delivery. So it appears that has always been the schedule.

 

http://www.museresearch.com/news.php?id=110

 

Busch.

[Mark Schmieder]

Hmm, looks interesting. Will await its form factor and an evaluation of ergonomics as well as price/performance ratio, as I would probably only use it in the studio vs. on the road. I need to find out whether it could work with Vienna Ensemble Pro though, as I am looking towards possibly moving towards that program as my main VI host.

[ADino]

Here's the original MuseBox announcement from Jan. 2009 where it states they expect a Q1 2010 delivery. So it appears that has always been the schedule.

 

http://www.museresearch.com/news.php?id=110

 

Busch.

 

The last time I checked the Muse sight, it was scheduled b4 the date on the page..cant remember off hand, but I thought it said spring 09 and was announced in 08. It has been pushed back. As a longtime Muse user, I was awaiting this, took so long that I actually 4got about it.

[richwhite9]

It's a year late and used Rev Cs look to be the better value option unless the final specs and pricing are better than originally stated.

 

>> The MuseBOX will be available from major music retailers and online providers in late spring or early summer of 2009 <<

 

You can google that line for the original. Receptor owners knew before the NAMM release.

 

In the past announcements like with Peavey mean a branded Receptor like the IK box, Komplete Box, etc. First one I saw with a hardware manufacturer/distributor.

 

Next week all the details will be out.

 

 

[Mark Schmieder]

Yep, and the week after that, new MacBookPro's with i5 chips are expected to be announced. :-)

 

Technology is a never-ending race.

[jarrell]

Just to be clear:

 

time until you are playing music = reboot time + load app + load VSTi(s)

 

VSTi load time depends on if it needs to load samples, or how long they take to configure in general. My point was simply that the reboot time, instead of maybe being 45 seconds, was around 5 seconds for Receptor.

 

[J. Dan]

A lot of the issues with Receptors and VST players, etc, stem around load times, etc. Tom recently turned me on to using a Solid State drive for your boot drive. They make them big enough to execute a limited number of applications from them as well.

 

Muse it seems mentioned something about support for them at NAMM and then backed away.

 

What's to stop somebody from just building a PC in a rackmount chassis using SSD's and only installing needed software. Put a fold-out flatpanel and laptop style keyboard/mouse in a slide-out drawer for anything you need to do. I would think you could pretty much put your performance files/applications in the startup folder, be up and running in about 20 seconds according to the articles I've read, and have minimal load times (that's full system, multiple applications, multiple files - you could probably trim things down to get much less, Tom's getting 11 sec load for just his OS running Win 7 I think with no modifications, Tom correct me if I'm wrong).

 

If you're doing a lot of sample-based stuff, you'd have to spend an arm and a leg for additional SSD's or go to a Raptor or something like that, but givent he cost of the Receptor, it seems viable.

 

Anybody consider this or know anybody who has done it?

[richwhite9]

Machines are getting powerful enough to run virtual machines on different processor cores and different drives allowing samples to be loading in the background.

 

Done it in a IT setting, not with audio.

[vihreamies]

more info on MuseBox:

 

http://www.museresearch.com/news.php?id=123

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

Quite the cutie

 

http://www.museresearch.com/i/musebox_front-namm2010-preview.jpg