Komplete 6

[richwhite9]

To be announced this week based on some postings at KVRAUDIO.

 

Only $449 and $149 upgrade. This is leading to speculation that the classic keys are permanently discontinued, it may or may not include Kore software, and Reaktor 6 is a question mark. Kontakt 4 and Guitar Rig 4 somewhat official based on some ads at BHphoto (toward bottom) .

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Native+Instruments&pn=3&N=0

[Al Coda]

To be announced this week based on some postings at KVRAUDIO.

 

Only $449 and $149 upgrade. This is leading to speculation that the classic keys are permanently discontinued, it may or may not include Kore software, and Reaktor 6 is a question mark. Kontakt 4 and Guitar Rig 4 somewhat official based on some ads at BHphoto (toward bottom) .

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Native+Instruments&pn=3&N=0

 

This is all bad news for me. I invested a lot of money in NI buying K2, K3, k4 and 5 as well as the Komplete Care.

 

Meanwhile I lost Kompakt, Intakt, Vokator and Spektral Delay,- now it seems I lose AP, EP and B4II.

What comes next?

 

Even the K6 overhaul is giving me (all ?) these plugins in a new appearence, like all the sampling instruments in Kontakt and the other engines in a Kore environment included in K6,- much of what I learned by using the old separate plugins might be lost and a new learning curve comes up.

 

I´m very disappointed by all the not fixed bugs in the former packages and/or separate plugins within the last 2 1/2 years and I also assume, if I have to use Kontakt and Kore as a replacement for the separate plugs, this will be a cpu intensive game. Maybe I need a separate computer just only for the NI s**t then.

 

I´m prepared to leave th NI route now,- there are lots of alternatives.

 

A.C.

[DanS]

Well I won't be going K6.

The main reason I bought K5, was to get Kontakt. I've discovered that Kontakt doesn't play nice with Spectrasonics plugins (of which I have invested heavily), and others. Whenever I load up Trilogy or Omnisphere, Kontakt crashes Cubase. I looked into the forums and discovered that this is a bug that has existed at least since 2006, and NI has done squat about it.

Some of my Gigastudio piano libraries didn't convert properly either, and are basically unusable.

At least FM8, Akoustik/Electrik pianos & Massive are working well.

 

 

[RABid]

I was down to using Kontact, B4 and Battery. Reaktor was fun to create synths but it was always easier to create music with Zebra, Blue or some other powerful softsynth.

 

It worries me that NI is working to become a hardware company. It bothers me that some fo their hardware works better than some of their software.

[DanS]

It bothers me that some fo their hardware works better than some of their software.

 

I had Kore 1 for about a week. Bought it to upgrade to Kore 2.

It was a Komplete disaster, and I sent it back & got Stylus RMX instead.

[Mark Schmieder]

Having spent eight hours in Kontakt 3.5 sessions last night, I am quite concerned about this upcoming Kontakt 4.

 

Here's the deal: the better Kontakt libraries take extreme advantage of KSP scripting. KSP scripting changes with each release, in ways that are not backward-compatible.

 

It took Sample Modeling months to get their libraries up-to-date for K3.5, and my sessions last night indicate that they're not quite there yet (the trumpet especially, and the tenor sax to a lesser degree, sounds slightly more synthy now than in KP2.5).

 

Retro Flute and the Sample Modeling stuff now has to be rendered twice in a row, which is time-consuming since Digital Performer loads the samples twice both at the start of the sequence and the end of the sequence. The first pass is always blank -- and this is JUST for libraries that do heavy KSP scripting, as other Kontakt libraries didn't have this problem yesterday.

 

So here we are with yet another Kontakt update, doubtless breaking many KSP scripts or changing the behaviour of libraries such that the attack envelope isn't as accurate, etc.

 

Why would they drop their most prestigious product, B4 II? Is FM8 still part of the Komplete package? I really only use Kontakt, B4 II, and FM8. Occasionally Battery, but just for stuff like Reverse Cymbal that I haven't yet found an easy way to recreate in BFD or Waldorf Attack.

 

Right now, Kontakt is my most unreliable plug-in.

[Mark Schmieder]

I don't see anything of interest at the B&H site; maybe they yanked the material after you posted that link?

 

Oh, I also remembered that I use Guitar Rig for one purpose only: Talk Box effect on guitar. Works pretty well, and is the best software solution for that effect currently, bar none. It's the only software Talk Box that gives much control over the vowel morphing or even vowel shape.

[richwhite9]

It's no longer there.

 

Additional speculation includes a new version of Service Center that requires either iPhone or a dedicated NTFS drive with 24/7 internet access . Receptor incompatible, of course.

[Mark Schmieder]

Wow, that would be awesome if you have to be connected to the internet while recording, since we all know what wonders that does for DAW stability.

[richwhite9]

Official announcments are out:

 

In: Abysnth 5, Kontakt 4, Guitar Rig Pro. Electrik Piano is a Kontakt Library. New Kontakt content (choirs, VSL, Mellotron, pipe organ)

 

 

Out: Classic Keys (Pro-53, B4 II, and Akoustik Piano).

 

Kore not included. All others as before (FM 8, Battery, Massive, etc)

 

http://www.dv247.com/computer-music-software/nativ e-instruments-komplete-6--67107

 

Some bizarre choices here (B4 II discontinued). I can pass on any upgrade.

[Aidan]

Nope, won't be upgrading either.

[DanS]

Didn't someone say Kontakt was the defacto standard for soft samplers?

Oi vey.

 

Don't want to paint myself into a corner here, but I think once Spectrasonics Trillian is released, I hope to be done with software purchases/upgrades. All these companies seem to be doing these days is adding features to products that nobody needs/uses, and the bugs pile up unresolved from rev to rev.

 

Too bad I sold my Atari.

 

[Al Coda]

Too bad I sold my Atari.

 

Yep,- but I kept 4 for MIDI ... :-)

 

b.t.w. from gearslutz.com:

 

"Native Instruments has discontinued Akoustik Piano, B4 II, Bandstand, Elektrik Piano and Pro-53 as individual products on September 1st.

 

This allows Native Instruments to further concentrate its resources on those products and technologies that are of primary relevance for today's music production environments, and offer a focused product portfolio with minimal overlap. Technical support for users of discontinued products continues to be available.

 

Existing owners of Akoustik Piano, Bandstand and Elektrik Piano can use the content of these instruments with the free Kontakt Player as a powerful replacement. The Kontakt Player offers full-featured playback capabilities for these Kontakt-based instruments, as well as future-proof compatibility with the latest versions of relevant operating systems and plugin hosts.

 

Users can find alternatives to the discontinued instruments in the current product portfolio. Native Instruments will be offering the content of Akoustik Piano as individual instruments for download purchase in the near future. The instruments contained within Elektrik Piano are part of the Kontakt 4 factory library. As an alternative to the B4 II, the '57 Drawbar Organ instrument continues to be available."

 

unbelievable !!!!

 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4532387-post6.html

 

I hope y´all know what this means.

 

A sampling content organ replacement for a discontinued physical modelling organ as a replacement.

No updates for since 2 years buggy instruments,- discontinued instead.

these guys a criminals IMO,- I payed over 2000.-EUR over the years for the KOMPLETE packages and Bandstand.

 

Promises, promises, promises w/ all this software s**t from energy and money suckers.

 

I´m happy I kept all my hardware instruments and Atari as a Midi frontend as well as a Mac G3.

 

I´m also happy I own PPH Reason and be able to upgrade to Record for EUR 129.-.

PPH is the software company I trust most and which has the most stable software around.

 

My NI stuff is going into the sales now.

 

A.C.

[cnegrad]

So does installing Komplete 4 delete the B3 plugin from your computer, or is it still on the computer, but unsupported?

[Geoff Grace]

Native Instruments Site: Kontakt 4

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Al Coda]

So does installing Komplete 4 delete the B3 plugin from your computer, or is it still on the computer, but unsupported?

 

I don´t understand your question ?

What has Komplete 6 to do w/ Komplete 4 in relation to Komplete 5?

 

If you own Komplete 5 now and see which products are discontinued from today and look for the new Komplete 6 content,- you know which products will not be supported anymore and will never be 64Bit in future.

 

Means, you can use all the discontinued products as long you keep your old 32Bit machine, that´s it.

 

There are more disadvantages.

 

There were 11 products in Komplete 4, now you get 7 in Komplete 6 and have to pay again,- just an example.

 

The free Kore Player isn´t a product I payed for, so it´s not a replacement for products I´ve already payed for.

 

Where´s Acoustic Piano ?

 

could be continued, but I don´t want to waste my time ...

 

A.C.

 

[Moon Zero Two]

WTF?

 

Is it April 1st already?

[Mark Schmieder]

Akoustik Piano is being split into individual libraries. I think Kore Packs, but I can't remember for sure.

 

I guess Elektrik is being folded into the main product. It's small anyway, and competes with Scarbee, which will be the ones that are sold individually.

 

With Scarbee's basses, and some Pettinhouse and Chris Hein content in the core library, I'm wondering if they'll strike up a similar deal with those two vendors, and have all three of them remove the tiny amount of perceived redundancy (not much, as Pettinhouse did a five-string bass and Scarbee's are all four-string basses).

 

The '57 Drawbar Organ sample set in Kontakt is a joke. I'd take the GM Organ from my Yamaha MOTIF anyday over that.

 

I'm very angry over the loss of B4 II. And make no mistake about it, it is a loss, because eventually it will be orphaned by incompatibilities, unless a dedicated computer is kept at hand to host just that one plug.

 

OTOH, I never did much custom work with it, as I don't like using the mouse to grab just one drawbar at a time. So maybe this will accelerate my purchase of a clonewheel, and I'll move yet one more instrument back to hardware from software.

 

In fact, it's looking like the future of computers is as sample library hosts, not virtual instruments in the synth sense.

 

Pro-53 couldn't compete, so no loss there. But B4 II has no peers, unless you count VB3, which doesn't really run properly under Audio Units on the Mac so is still effectively Win-only. Maybe it's good; I don't know, since it won't run on my Mac.

 

So what it is exactly that they think we're going to fork over $150 for? What are we getting in return for the lost content? Updates to the contained products? 64-bit compatibility, bugfixes, new features we don't need, features that are actually useful (hah!)?

 

I depend heavily on Kontakt due to the Sample Modeling and Bela D libraries that are hybrid sampling/modeling. Also a few special-purpose libraries like Sitar Nation.

 

I only use Battery for Reverse Cymbal and other special-purpose special-effect drums/percussion. It doesn't have very good audio quality, but has a nice interface for traditional drum machine style work. Waldorf Attack kills it for synth drums though, and BFD for acoustic drums and percussion.

 

I've never used Reaktor except for the OP-X Oberheim clone. Their pro version is Win-only and VST not Reaktor. Wonder if they'll keep supporting it?

 

Likewise, I don't use Absynth or Massive. I simply am so happy with Largo and Cameleon 5000 (now Alchemy) that I haven't felt the need to explore additional soft synths. I sold my three Rob Papen synths earlier this year due to realising I would never use them as one doesn't really need more than a couple of soft synths unless deeply into electronica/etc.

 

Someone else said it, maybe on another forum: NI seems to be moving more towards hardware, and also the guitarist and DJ markets. There's more money there, and less development problems to deal with. Once they got their foothold in those markets, there was little incentive to keep investing in soft synths.

[hennessey]

But B4 II has no peers, unless you count VB3, which doesn't really run properly under Audio Units on the Mac so is still effectively Win-only. Maybe it's good; I don't know, since it won't run on my Mac.

 

Not to hijack, but I use VB3 live on my Macbook. Works fine and sounds great. Maybe worth trying it again. I wonder what the problemn is/was.

 

[Mark Schmieder]

It didn't work as an Audio Unit plug-in in Digital Performer. Can't speak for other hosts. Maybe it works in Logic.

[Al Coda]

Akoustik Piano is being split into individual libraries. I think Kore Packs, but I can't remember for sure.

 

Yep, that´s right,- and you have to buy it,- in separate parts, instrument for instrument !!!

 

I guess Elektrik is being folded into the main product. It's small anyway, and competes with Scarbee, which will be the ones that are sold individually.

 

With Scarbee's basses, and some Pettinhouse and Chris Hein content in the core library, I'm wondering if they'll strike up a similar deal with those two vendors, and have all three of them remove the tiny amount of perceived redundancy (not much, as Pettinhouse did a five-string bass and Scarbee's are all four-string basses).

 

The '57 Drawbar Organ sample set in Kontakt is a joke. I'd take the GM Organ from my Yamaha MOTIF anyday over that.

 

Confirmed !

It´s not only a joke,- it´s a cheek !

 

 

I'm very angry over the loss of B4 II. And make no mistake about it, it is a loss, because eventually it will be orphaned by incompatibilities, unless a dedicated computer is kept at hand to host just that one plug.

 

OTOH, I never did much custom work with it, as I don't like using the mouse to grab just one drawbar at a time. So maybe this will accelerate my purchase of a clonewheel, and I'll move yet one more instrument back to hardware from software.

 

Wise decision, but it doesn´t mean you didn´t buy a instrument and didn´t expect a long term usage and updates until the bugs are gone.

It´s all the same in the digital world,- release of unfinished products, waiting for the users comments to find out the bugs, starting bug-fixing and in the end, you´re confrontated w/ a company which lacks of skilled coders. They implement more bugs than they are able to fix and if the situation becomes hopeless, the product is discontinued.

 

Unfortunally, this happens also in todays hardware instruments which are in most cases computers and a OS too.

 

In fact, it's looking like the future of computers is as sample library hosts, not virtual instruments in the synth sense.

 

That´s exactly what I want to avoid, cluttering my computer with tons of samples.

 

Pro-53 couldn't compete, so no loss there.

 

Wrong,- there is a loss, the loss of a instrument you payed for in the past and there is no replacement available from the same company.

 

But B4 II has no peers, unless you count VB3, which doesn't really run properly under Audio Units on the Mac so is still effectively Win-only. Maybe it's good; I don't know, since it won't run on my Mac.

 

VB3 is great on PC and now, I feel I should support the smaller software developers instead of the greedy leading companys.

There will be bugs always, but meanwhile, for me, it makes a difference how much I have to pay for bugs which probably never will be fixed.

 

So what it is exactly that they think we're going to fork over $150 for? What are we getting in return for the lost content? Updates to the contained products? 64-bit compatibility, bugfixes, new features we don't need, features that are actually useful (hah!)?

 

We´ll get nothing but new bugs and the game starts again.

 

I depend heavily on Kontakt due to the Sample Modeling and Bela D libraries that are hybrid sampling/modeling. Also a few special-purpose libraries like Sitar Nation.

 

I only use Battery for Reverse Cymbal and other special-purpose special-effect drums/percussion. It doesn't have very good audio quality, but has a nice interface for traditional drum machine style work. Waldorf Attack kills it for synth drums though, and BFD for acoustic drums and percussion.

 

Bad luck,- I never was addicted to sampling to make music.

It´s also a fact, Kontakt never was bug free,- so what ?

 

I've never used Reaktor except for the OP-X Oberheim clone. Their pro version is Win-only and VST not Reaktor. Wonder if they'll keep supporting it?

 

I´m happy to own OPX and OPX Pro, it´s a great sounding virtual instrument,- the only one which sounds like a real Obie. No surprise,- it comes from a small and innovative company too.

 

Likewise, I don't use Absynth or Massive.

 

Most of the patches delivered w/ Absynth and Massive are unusable for me and their engines sound cold.

 

A.C.

[Hobo]

I now use VB3 in Logic / Mainstage and it runs great. To my ears it has much more presence than B4 had, and it's very good value.

[timwat]

I agree - EVB3 sounds great. Just don't use it in 105 degree temps.

[gliderproarc]

Wow, I'm sad to see B4II go. I was just starting to use it live instead of EVB3, but I guess I'll be switching back now. The things NI is discontinuing are fortunately not that bad for me. Never used pro-53, and Electrik, and Akoustik will both be still be accessible through Kontakt anyway. I was expecting Massive, FM8, and Reaktor updates, but I guess not.

 

I'll upgrade but I might wait a while. Nothing in the bundle would give me much more then what I have in Komplete 5, barring the new VSL content in Kontakt 4.

[Mark Schmieder]

Do we know what the new content is yet?

 

More VSL is great if that's what they've done. Redundant for me personally, but that's not the point. I'm just concerned whether there is any inherent value in Komplete 6 for ANYONE. :-)

[richwhite9]

If you look at the Kore soundpack for '57 Drawbar Organ' it has

some hidden functionality.

 

OK. B4 II was the first VST I saw where I got it immediately. The GUI was cute and easy to use. A little Hammond Organ. How intuitive!

 

The GUI in the Kore '57 Drawbar Organ' soundpack manual is interesting. Check out pages 13 through 16 of the manual for the B4-like functionality.

 

Certainly worth a look for those of you into interesting ergonomics.

 

http://www.native-instruments.com/fileadmin/redaktion_upload/pdf/KSP_57_Drawbar_Organ.pdf

 

 

=========================================

Mark Schmieder I don't know why you move drawbars by mouse. Many controllers have maps for B4 including the Edirols, all the Studiologics, etc. The Studiologics faders work fairly well right out of the box if you can deal with weighted keys.

[richwhite9]

Do we know what the new content is yet?

 

More VSL is great if that's what they've done. Redundant for me personally, but that's not the point. I'm just concerned whether there is any inherent value in Komplete 6 for ANYONE. :-)

 

Solo Strings plus a concert hall organ from VSL.

Choirs from NI

Elektrik Piano from NI

Some vintage instruments like Mellotron.

 

6 additional Gigs total.

[Geoff Grace]

Solo Strings plus a concert hall organ from VSL.

Choirs from NI

Elektrik Piano from NI

Some vintage instruments like Mellotron.

 

6 additional Gigs total.

You can hear demos at the link I posted above.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Al Coda]

 

Solo Strings plus a concert hall organ from VSL.

Choirs from NI

Elektrik Piano from NI

Some vintage instruments like Mellotron.

 

6 additional Gigs total.

 

Anyway,- every halfway intelligent human being recognizes, NI discontinued synth and organ engines as single products and content of KOMPLETE to force you to buy KORE.

The engines survive in KORE and will be updated w/ KORE.

 

In addition, everyone who buyed Komplete until yesterday lost plugins based on samples like Akustik Piano.

 

If you want the NI stuff complete now and again, plus bugfixes and new features as well as compatibility w/ up to date OSes, you have to buy KOMPLETE 6 AND KORE plus Kore Soundpacks.

 

KOMPLETE 6 isn´t complete anymore,- it´s INKOMPLETE and cost money in addition.

 

If I ever had in mind to use most of the instrument as sampling content based plugins, I´d never had to buy KOMPLETE.

It would have been enough to buy KONTAKT and some 3rd party sample libraries.

If I´d ever had in mind to buy a sample library like Kore Soundpacks from NI,- I would be satisfied w/ the FREE Kontakt Player and the soundpacks,- definitely a different investment compared to the price of Komplete in the past.

 

I buyed Komplete from the beginning because of getting 13 virtual instruments, not a small VSL content for Kontakt.

If I´d need and want VSL,- I´d buy VSL.

 

NI has stolen over 40% of the KOMPLETE content I payed for meanwhile instead of fixing confirmed bugs of malfunctioning plugins and keeping ´em up to date.

 

I wonder if this is a case for a lawyer.

 

A.C.

 

 

[Aidan]

One of the points which came up in the thread about the Komplete 5 offer prior to this was that if NI came out with 6 a month later (which they have), it wouldn't mean that the content of K5 would suddenly stop working. AC, you bought the product they were offering at the time, so I can't see how you claim things have been stolen.

 

For sure, K6 looks poor value compared with its predecessor, which is why I won't be upgrading for the foreseeable future - but that's a commercial decision NI took, and for its customers to weigh. But things will still work for a long time to come. NI says that all its products appear to work OK in Snow Leopard, for example, albeit in 32-bit mode. By the time these things become entirely obsolete, there will be products available which make today's plug-ins look thoroughly crude.

 

It is true that there are bugs in K5 which NI should really fix, and I don't think the company has done itself any favours in the way it's failed to come up with that. But bad PR isn't the same as theft.

 

For most of us, there's still a lot there to make music with.