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Is this why self-promotion for musicians is futile ?


d  halfnote

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Recently I posted a referential (& reverential :D ) thread honoring a favorite bassist.

Rather than include effusive blurbs about them I chose to let some links, with brief desciptions, serve as a way to let that players work speak for itself.

[Here's that post:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2108168/malachi_favors_maghostut_8_22_#Post2108168 ]

 

Somewhat stunned by the lack of response, I bumped it & got 2 comments.

That's what tends to happen here sometimes when you post links to music that's not run of the mill, however beautiful and life-affirming the music.

I think it's ...what happens when people feel overwhelmed by what appears to be a full printed page of nothing but links. Honestly, I probably have enough time to go through all of it but it seems so daunting when I first see it that I cringe and go to the next thread.

 

Bite-sized, digestible morsels that stay within our limited attention spans. That's what the public needs.

 

At first I thought, OK, that's something to consider, though "going through all of it seemed unnecessary to checking out any of it & perhaps remarking on that.

 

Having considered it however, I wonder what the lesson really is. Is it really so daunting to push a button to listen to some music that's recommended to you ? What's an easier method of exposure for music ?

If that is too much effort for a musician in a similar area, what can be expected of the general public when their attention is sought ?

 

 

 

 

d=halfnote
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Well, that's something for another thread, not the question I'm asking here, isn't it?

To address that point, however, I personally never like when someone touts a hero by overstating their ability, which is exactly why, as I've already said, that I gave a brief description of my point in posting about Favors & general comments on the proffered links.

 

To me such hyperbole as you suggest is offputtingly transparent but since the point here is to explore what it takes to get people to explore musicians they have no awareness of, maybe that's a minority view.

 

 

 

 

 

d=halfnote
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To me such hyperbole as you suggest is offputtingly transparent but since the point here is to explore what it takes to get people to explore musicians they have no awareness of, maybe that's a minority view.

DING!

 

The problem with resisting the status quo lies in trying to get a community to go along with you.

 

The popular format of music reviews is popular because that's what people respond to.

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I think I'm more with Davio than with d, although I do not really want to choose sides.

 

My eyes glazed over when I saw the initial post in the other thread. I didn't recognize the name and didn't have the time to start following the links.

 

Davio's example was extreme, but a post like my sample below would probably have piqued my interest:

 

fill in name here was been a big influence on me and here's a great example of his playing. I'm listening to this because today is his enter number here birthday.

Check him out:

http://www.foe.org/images/socialmedia/ico-youtube-lg.png

 

Many other people need a catchier message. The whole advertising industry is built around that. And because of the advertising industry, some people respond better to an anti-image (which the ad industry has also figured out).

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I don't look at every post, just the ones that look interesting. The subject title is what gets my attention.

 

"malachi favors maghostut/ 8-22-27/Happy Birthday to the Host" means nothing to me. I didn't even get to the content.

 

but then maybe "Great obscure Cuban bass player" might not get my attention either.

 

"Is this why self-promotion for musicians is futile" got it though!

 

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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A friend of mine who can play any request that anyone makes to his band was once asked,

"wow, do you know every song ever written?"

and he replied,

"yes, and nothing else."

 

True Story.

Hah! That's how our keyboard player is. We call him Terminator 4: The Human Jukebox.

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I checked out some of the videos when I first saw your post here:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads...22_#Post2108168

 

Since I am a fan of Favors anyway, I knew more or less what I might hear on those links, and I was excited that someone was posting links to this particular bassist on this forum. I watched a couple of the videos, but not all, which brings me to my point:

 

I think it is better to recommend only one or two links to people who have never heard of Malachi Favors. That might translate into marketing our own music: It is sometimes better to market just one small thing rather than a whole package of items. And I think a lot of people here agree that a big key to stirring up interest lies in the topic title of the post.

 

www.goldsby.de
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"malachi favors maghostut/ 8-22-27/Happy Birthday to the Host" means nothing to me. I didn't even get to the content.

 

Um, yeah.

 

You know, sometimes you throw something out there, and people don't respond. It happens in my line of work--only instead of a bunch of links, what falls flat is something you may have worked on literally for years. It happens.

 

You can either whinge about people not being interested or you can try to figure out why you didn't interest them.

 

Nothing, and I mean nothing, speaks for itself.

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I love Malachi's music but I get the point about the thread title. I will check something out if someone I know and respect recommends it. For instance, a guitarist I knew (through the net) recommended Mogwai, who I'd never heard, and assumed I'd hate. I checked them out and loved them.

 

But there's the rub, I checked them out because I was interested in my friend's music and I'd hope that there are a few people on here who'd check something out because someone they'd got to know here recommended it. TBH I've even listened to some tripe here because someone recommended it.

 

That's why, essentially, self-promotion for musicians is futile! In the height of myspace's popularity I'd get dozens of friends requests at a time asking me to listen to some music I'd never heard of - why would I? The music I'd listen to would be by someone who had bothered interacting with me, in person or online, and developing my interest in them.

 

This is the way some people on this forum, as well as guys like Vernon Reid, John Goldsby, Melvin Gibbs, Imogen Heap, Steve Lawson and the like are using the internet to build up rapport which then leads to interest in their music and the music they recommend.

 

 

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This is the way some people on this forum, as well as guys like Vernon Reid, John Goldsby, Melvin Gibbs, Imogen Heap, Steve Lawson and the like are using the internet to build up rapport which then leads to interest in their music and the music they recommend.

That, and being awesome doesn't hurt. I like Imogen Heap.

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Honestly, I listened to about 3 minutes of the 1st video (hoping it would get better at some point) and it sounded like someone threw a jazz ensemble down a flight of stairs with a gang at the bottom beating them with baseball bats as they got to the bottom.

 

I'm quite sure each musician is great, but it sounds like they got together and decided to find out how bad they could make it sound.

 

I could have posted that on the original thread but I try (not always with success) to just walk away and keep my adverse opinions to myself, but since you asked for clarification..

Feel free to visit my band's site

Delusional Mind

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Wow, sounds to me you're a little bitter about the lack of responces to your post.

First off, thanks for the postings. As I've said before one of the best things about this forum is that I get a lot of exposure to bassists that I wouldn't normally hear about.

That being said. I listened to the postings and some were pretty good and some I really didn't care for. Experimental/progressive jazz is not my cup of tea. To me it sounds atonal and lacking in structure.

I too didn't get the meaning of the thread title.

Anyway, sorry about not responding but don't let that discourage you for posting about other bassists you find interresting. We are out there.

Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it.

http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband

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Thread titles matter. They need to make sense. Many people make decisions about what to read and not to read based on the title.

 

For some of us, we see the forum from work and things like firewalls keep us from viewing content from sites like youtube or others.

 

For some of us, even if we view at home, we don't always have time to sit through some or all of a video clip.

 

That said, had you titled the thread, "Fantastic Cuban bass player" or "Cuban bassist I like" (if you want to avoid hyperbole) I actually would've looked at the thread sooner rather than later.

 

As a moderator, I try to get to all the threads, but I certainly don't run through the whole page and hit everything every time I visit the LDL.

 

Peace.

--s-uu

spreadluv

 

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.

Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.

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Haven't responded since I've become very busy lately but I am considering all comments.

 

A couple quick points:

[1] The discussion here isn't meant to be limited to the context that inspired it but can range over any issues related to musicians methods of promotion in a time when the # of independent musicians has grown exponentially with home studio productions & the shrinking of traditional marketing systems.

[2] I don't feel there are "sides" to be taken between Davio & me; I simply took his comment about "too many links" as something that might apply, in a way I'd never considered, to the general public.

 

Wow, sounds to me you're a little bitter about the lack of responces to your post.

Not bitter, just surprised.

 

Honestly, I listened to about 3 minutes of the 1st video (hoping it would get better at some point) and it sounded like someone threw a jazz ensemble down a flight of stairs with a gang at the bottom beating them with baseball bats as they got to the bottom.

:D Granted the AEC never were everyone's cuppa, which is why I offered the comments about timing selections.

[Favors at work/play

stately & beautiful music you must hear

(solo @ 4:50...can you spot the Woody Woddpecker quote at 5:35 ?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uUFtBcgaWo&feature=PlayList&p=BF09E6FC8CB5BE30&index=18 ]

Sounds like you gave up just before you got to the bass solo! :D

You might want to take a glimmer at that solo, he's smooooove &, with drummer Famoudou Don Moye, gives a great lesson in rhythm section unity.

d=halfnote
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Hey, who ever promised you that your posts would be magnets for discussion and comment on this site, or any other? Nobody here owes you anything except common courtesy, and you've gotten a boat load of that.

 

Perhaps your posts will attract more attention after you've been here for while, and established yourself as an interesting person. That's kinda how everybody got going here. If that doesn't work for you, you're probably posting on the wrong site.

 

Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

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Thanks for the firmly expressed opinion, man, but you might want to notice our comparative registration dates, though before you lecture me on "being here awhile". :rolleyes::laugh:

 

To reiterate:

However, I wonder what the lesson really is. What's an easier method of exposure for music ?

If that is too much effort for a musician in a similar area, what can be expected of the general public when their attention is sought ?

Haven't responded since I've become very busy lately but I am considering all comments.

 

A couple quick points:

[1] The discussion here isn't meant to be limited to the context that inspired it but can range over any issues related to musicians methods of promotion in a time when the # of independent musicians has grown exponentially with home studio productions & the shrinking of traditional marketing systems.

Maybe you have some to contribute to that ?

d=halfnote
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There is no guarantee that anyone to like what any of us like. Sorry, that's a fact of life.

 

As far as D's continuing presence here, I didn't recognize his new handle, and didn't bother to check his date of signing on. Sorry. I guess the fact that he's making so much of this whole thing made me think he didn't know how things work around here usually.

Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

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Maybe you have some to contribute to that?

 

No, not really. I don't see the fact that few of us were all that interested in your original post as being indicative of very much.

Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

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Haven't responded since I've become very busy lately but I am considering all comments.

 

A couple quick points:

[1] The discussion here isn't meant to be limited to the context that inspired it but can range over any issues related to musicians methods of promotion in a time when the # of independent musicians has grown exponentially with home studio productions & the shrinking of traditional marketing systems.

 

I was wondering how people get to hear any new music.

In the UK all our 'drive time' shows are just inane chat. I spend 3 hours commuting to and from work and probably hear 8 tunes a day.

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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Like Willie said, I go through every post (though I've been slow to many of late). I can read a post at home or at work, but I can't always click a link and listen to something. Because of that, I miss some links. I told PhilW that I can't watch every link on the Youtube thread - just too much there to make time for - or absorb.

 

I have sometimes been surprised that threads I've started (with or without links) don't get more views or discussion. But I know I have my view of things, and that others see differently, so I'm OK with that. It doesn't stop me from posting - even about myself.

 

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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Mr. Halfnote has been here for a long time, check his post count.

He used to use another name./quote]

 

Thanks, JC, but actually it's always been the same onscreen name & as far as post count, I was referring to the registration dates in my volley w/ Picker's attempted seniority & misunderstanding of the changed subject matter.

He's got more posts; I've been here longer. I think we can all agree that post counts might be relative simply to how much someone says but that, ultimately, neither counts or dates have anything to do with validity.

 

My attempt to turn the subject from the other thread to this one is meant to explore why or not most people would be tempted to visit any online site to check out music not to keep gnawing on why few checked out or commented on Favors.

More & more we'll be dealing with marketing things online & what works or doesn't seems worth looking into.

 

For instance, regarding what Tim said about listening to radio DJ's inanity but what about the split between people listening to "air" radio & other forms, such as having a laptop on the car seat beside you ?

The more fractured the landscape, the more tricks need be developed to garner attention.

 

 

d=halfnote
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I think it's been well addressed at this point that it's things that grab people's attention (like subject lines) that help them decide to spend some of their valuable time reading or watching what you provide. If you really need more explanation, take an advertising class...that's what we're ultimately getting at in this discussion.
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