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Large sample sets on laptop live?


NewImprov

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So I just sprung for the NI Komplete deal, and I'm going to install it (them?) on both my studio Mac G5 and my PC laptop for live performance. The G5 has a seperate hard drive already devoted to sample sets and loops I re-use, etc, as well as a system drive and a drive for tracking.

 

For my PC (running Brainspawn Forte and an M-Audio 410), I don't have enough space on the internal disc to install the Komplete sample library. Should I have a larger internal drive installed, or get an external drive to house the samples? I gig fairly often with this setup, but adding another USB drive won't impact that much on setup time, but it is one more thing to set up and one more thing that can fail or be forgotten.

 

I can't imagine I'll be using the full 65 gig library live, by any means, but it would be cool to have it available as I also use the laptop as a sound module in the studio.

 

 

 

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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As long as you get an internal drive with enough space, you should be fine. Speed helps with audio streaming, as in a studio situation with the recording and playback of audio tracks, but in terms of sample-based VSTs like Ivory, your RAM actually picks up most of the slack. A faster hard drive doesn't hurt, though, and will improve your computer's performance overall. 7200rpm is the current fastest speed for a laptop drive, and that would be preferred. You should be able to find a 320gb 7200rpm drive for around $80 to $90. To be honest, a 5400rpm drive would be fine too, but with the prices of hard drives dropping so much, though, I think you might as well go with a faster speed. It will make a difference.

 

"Head room" is a performance factor to consider with a HD. Much like an amplifier, a HD performs best when it's not being pushed. Hard drives can start to get sluggish when they're close to capacity. So, basically, don't get a 80gb drive for your 65gb sample library. Go 120 or higher. Hard drives are getting so cheap these days, so why not. Plus, you'll have the space for future expansion.

 

I don't see the need for an external HD for a mobile rig. For your studio computer it makes sense to record and playback audio tracks from an external and use a separate system drive, but you don't face the same performance demands in a live setting. Maybe if you planned on running a ton of sample-based VSTs simultaneously, but I doubt that would ever be the case.

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Do you have Komplete 5 loaded on your system drive and using it live? Anyone?

I interested in this too N&I...

 

Day

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

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I would go with a bigger internal drive. Less stuff to carry/set up/forget live. And I had more external drives & enclosures die on me than internal components. I just swapped out my MacBook Pro drive this weekend for the 500GB Seagate 7200rpm drive in preparation for Omnisphere. You posted that you have a PC laptop, so the migration of the drive may be more of a pain (or you have someone do it for you). On the Mac I put the new drive in an external FW400 enclosure, cloned the original drive using Carbon Copy Cloner (free), and swapped the internal drive for the new one. The old drive is now a bootable spare in the external enclosure. Cost: $130 for the drive and $50 for the enclosure.
"You'll never be as good as you could have been, but you can always be better than you are." - MoKen
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I would go with a bigger internal drive. Less stuff to carry/set up/forget live. And I had more external drives & enclosures die on me than internal components. I just swapped out my MacBook Pro drive this weekend for the 500GB Seagate 7200rpm drive in preparation for Omnisphere. You posted that you have a PC laptop, so the migration of the drive may be more of a pain (or you have someone do it for you). On the Mac I put the new drive in an external FW400 enclosure, cloned the original drive using Carbon Copy Cloner (free), and swapped the internal drive for the new one. The old drive is now a bootable spare in the external enclosure. Cost: $130 for the drive and $50 for the enclosure.

 

Wow, sounds like an easy and inexpensive way to give your lappy a major upgrade!

 

I still am curious what vstis and sample libraries people are able to run glitch-free from just their system drive. That would save some hassle for those wanted to use a laptop live. Of course if you really need an external drive, I guess you could have it already plugged in and tucked away in one of those racks made for using laptops with rack gear like the SKB Studio Flyer, or the Gator one. Anyone using one of those racks?

 

 

Day

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

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I've got the SKB Studio Flyer 2U model. It makes setting up a breeze. I love it!

 

I route USB, Firewire, and AC cables to the laptop shelf. I've got a 1U Furman power conditioner and a 1U rack shelf holding my interface (an M-Audio Firewire Solo) inside the case.

 

I just open the case, run USB to my controller, run AC cables to my controller and powered monitors, and run balanced leads to my powered monitors, and I'm done!

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Just checked with a local PC repair place, they'll sell me a 500G drive and install it for about $180, including cloning my current drive, so I think I'm going for it. Still waiting to receive my order from Native Instruments, then my life will be Komplete finally, or at least more Komplikated :)

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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Just checked with a local PC repair place, they'll sell me a 500G drive and install it for about $180, including cloning my current drive, so I think I'm going for it. Still waiting to receive my order from Native Instruments, then my life will be Komplete finally, or at least more Komplikated :)

 

That's great. I may look into doing that myself, my 60G laptop drive is just about maxed.

 

Let us know how the cloning and install go.

I sincerely hope your lappy's happy, and not glitchy bitchy...

 

What's up with the konspiracy to eradikate the hard "C" from our written language?

Would you feel safe eating at Kay's Kountry Kitchen? Neither would I...

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

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Just checked with a local PC repair place, they'll sell me a 500G drive and install it for about $180, including cloning my current drive, so I think I'm going for it.

 

Any info on the the drive they'll be installing? The words "pc repair place" tells me they may try to give you a salvaged drive (used, in other words). Probably not, but you just might want to make sure it's new at any rate. Also, just to throw this out there:

 

The 500gb version of the Seagate Momentus 7200, which I consider the best of the best (for laptop drives) can be had for $120 (link). The 5400 version sells for $90 (link).

 

I only say that for two reasons. The first being that I think switching out a hard drive is a fairly simple procedure, but I understand that everyone has a different level of confidence and/or knowledge when it comes to that sort of thing. Either way, the point is that you're getting charged anywhere from $60 to $90 more than you would pay if you did it yourself, and that's even if you're getting the best drive money can buy. Which might be worth it to you. Not everyone's a DIY-er, but I'm just throwing that out there. Which leads me to reason #2. Not all drives are the same, so I would recommend (if you haven't already) finding out exactly which drive they plan to install, and do some research, read reviews, etc. You may decide you want something else. Don't let them throw in just any old drive.

 

Anyway, just playing devil's advocate, as both a cheap bastard and someone who has witnessed firsthand how computer salesmen (local or in the big chains), just like mechanics, will often try and sell you the old "johnson rod."

 

 

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I have tried Receptors, Laptops w/ external eSATA and ended up going with my current CPU/RAM and just transporting it to a 1U w/ 2 x Raptors.

The reason is because I do not need the i7 or a quad, and most definately don't need the 3 x PCI-e 16X designs.

PCI-e 1X is what I use for my 1U DSP rack, and for streaming I am quite happy w/ Bidule hosting GVI/Kontackt/VSTi stuff. My rack has the DSP and Analog synths, so I only need to stream audio.

Using the 3GB PAE Switch, I can load plenty of samples and the E8500 w/ the DG45 mini ITX is perfect. I can actually buy another mini ITX since the 1U is dual mini ITX design and have 2 x PC's running if necessary.

I wanted a laptop to run with my XITE-1 DSP rack but the mini ITX is well ventilated, and has plenty of power and is extremely mobile. I can actually use a pop up mixer ATA case for an 8U LCD and a 2U ATA for my entire rig. A little bigger than 1U and a laptop but definately a better live solution. BTW the SSD's heat up really bad and just aren't good for streaming. They are a great option for an Apps + O.S. drive though.

Magnus C350 and a TV Dinner Tray Stand

 

http://soundcloud.com/you/sets

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I have tried Receptors, Laptops w/ external eSATA and ended up going with my current CPU/RAM and just transporting it to a 1U w/ 2 x Raptors.

The reason is because I do not need the i7 or a quad, and most definately don't need the 3 x PCI-e 16X designs.

PCI-e 1X is what I use for my 1U DSP rack, and for streaming I am quite happy w/ Bidule hosting GVI/Kontackt/VSTi stuff. My rack has the DSP and Analog synths, so I only need to stream audio.

Using the 3GB PAE Switch, I can load plenty of samples and the E8500 w/ the DG45 mini ITX is perfect. I can actually buy another mini ITX since the 1U is dual mini ITX design and have 2 x PC's running if necessary.

I wanted a laptop to run with my XITE-1 DSP rack but the mini ITX is well ventilated, and has plenty of power and is extremely mobile. I can actually use a pop up mixer ATA case for an 8U LCD and a 2U ATA for my entire rig. A little bigger than 1U and a laptop but definately a better live solution. BTW the SSD's heat up really bad and just aren't good for streaming. They are a great option for an Apps + O.S. drive though.

 

Wow, that sounds very interesting !

Are you able to provide links to your midi ITX and the 1HU dual mini ITX rack, please ?

 

Do I understand right, you run a dual core incl. MoBo, PSU, RAM and 2 WD Raptors in a 1 HU case w/ proper cooling? Yes?

Which processor cooler is in use?

 

Which WD Raptors,- 150GB for system and 300GB for data?

 

Just asking because that sounds too promising but wonderful and because I plan to buy XITE-1 this year and if Scope 5 is afficially released, stable and if VDAT and XTC mode is working.

 

thx in advance

 

A.C.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
I have tried Receptors, Laptops w/ external eSATA and ended up going with my current CPU/RAM and just transporting it to a 1U w/ 2 x Raptors.

The reason is because I do not need the i7 or a quad, and most definately don't need the 3 x PCI-e 16X designs.

PCI-e 1X is what I use for my 1U DSP rack, and for streaming I am quite happy w/ Bidule hosting GVI/Kontackt/VSTi stuff. My rack has the DSP and Analog synths, so I only need to stream audio.

Using the 3GB PAE Switch, I can load plenty of samples and the E8500 w/ the DG45 mini ITX is perfect. I can actually buy another mini ITX since the 1U is dual mini ITX design and have 2 x PC's running if necessary.

I wanted a laptop to run with my XITE-1 DSP rack but the mini ITX is well ventilated, and has plenty of power and is extremely mobile. I can actually use a pop up mixer ATA case for an 8U LCD and a 2U ATA for my entire rig. A little bigger than 1U and a laptop but definately a better live solution. BTW the SSD's heat up really bad and just aren't good for streaming. They are a great option for an Apps + O.S. drive though.

 

whoosh! - the sound of that geekspeak going over my head. Anyone want to translate for us please? Is this a one rack space computer?

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

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I have tried Receptors, Laptops w/ external eSATA and ended up going with my current CPU/RAM and just transporting it to a 1U w/ 2 x Raptors.

The reason is because I do not need the i7 or a quad, and most definately don't need the 3 x PCI-e 16X designs.

PCI-e 1X is what I use for my 1U DSP rack, and for streaming I am quite happy w/ Bidule hosting GVI/Kontackt/VSTi stuff. My rack has the DSP and Analog synths, so I only need to stream audio.

Using the 3GB PAE Switch, I can load plenty of samples and the E8500 w/ the DG45 mini ITX is perfect. I can actually buy another mini ITX since the 1U is dual mini ITX design and have 2 x PC's running if necessary.

I wanted a laptop to run with my XITE-1 DSP rack but the mini ITX is well ventilated, and has plenty of power and is extremely mobile. I can actually use a pop up mixer ATA case for an 8U LCD and a 2U ATA for my entire rig. A little bigger than 1U and a laptop but definately a better live solution. BTW the SSD's heat up really bad and just aren't good for streaming. They are a great option for an Apps + O.S. drive though.

 

whoosh! - the sound of that geekspeak going over my head. Anyone want to translate for us please? Is this a one rack space computer?

 

After some investigation, I´ve found out it´s something like this combined w/ SC XITE-1 ...

 

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=26501

 

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=27882

 

A.C.

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Sorry I don't check the forums here very much, but yes those links are good.

I also wanted a laptop but I grew weary of excessive travels checking out the " latest/greatest " laptops. They are all unworthy for travel and overpriced.

I did come up with a nice Lenovo with a dual PCI-e connector port. One 34mm could have been for the XITE-1 PCI-e connector, and the other for an external dual eSATA dock which theoretically would would have been sweet. Since the O.S. + apps would be an SSD it would remain cooler since no streaming would be done. But at 4700 USD I said fawgetabbowditt.

The XITE-1 works great since I don't try and use i7 motherboards which IMHO are over featured and not meant for PCI-e audio yet. A BIOS in the future might help, but I have seen the AMD boards rockin' the house and I have never used them before, actually wouldn't have dreamed of it. A friend here in LV is running DSP cards off of a Gigabyte 770 board with the same results as an i7 @ 3.2GHz.

So I will wait and watch but I wish to add 64bit in the future and use some large focused libraries each with their own 8GB footprint and 1U. LASS is a library I can't seem to stop listening to.

I will post back when I start to build but it will be closer to XMas. I have to save up for personal property taxes and school for my boy first, then MaMa let's me loose on the gear and NAMM shows.......

The experimental Mini-ITX works well but the Sideport RAM AMD's by J & W are the kind for me.

Magnus C350 and a TV Dinner Tray Stand

 

http://soundcloud.com/you/sets

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Translation:

 

Receptor : MUSE Receptor

 

eSATA: external SATA. Your harddisk and CD ROM used to use PATA (Parallel ATA - those gray flat ribbon cables) - Serial ATA is a cable consisting of fewer strands that can get higher speeds, too. eSATA simply means you can connect an external harddisk without a penalty in speed that USB or Firewire harddisks would give you.

 

Raptor: Short for the Western Digital Raptor, a line of harddisks that focuses more on speed than on storage capacity.

 

i7 : Intel processor type, comes after the Core 2

 

Quad: Short for quad-core processor

 

PCI-e: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-Express

 

"PCI-e 1X is what I use for my 1U DSP rack" and "XITE-1 DSP rack" see: http://www.cwaudio.de/en/products/xite-1.html

 

Basically a dedicated "computer" you run plugins on that can only run on those things. Advantages are an overall higher quality and no load on the computer you use for other things. See also: http://www.tcelectronic.com/PowerCoreConcept.asp

 

Bidule : Plogue Bidule, http://www.plogue.com/

 

3GB PAE Switch : see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension . In short, it overcomes a memory limit - even if you have 4 GB internally, a 32-bits Windows version may not "see" all of it.

 

E8500 : Intel processor, dual-core.

DG45 mini ITX : Mini ITX is a form factor; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-ITX

 

SSD: Solid State Drive. Instead of rotating platters, flash memory.

 

whoosh! - the sound of that geekspeak going over my head. Anyone want to translate for us please? Is this a one rack space computer?

 

So yeah, it looks like you got the gist of it.

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Translation:

 

Receptor : MUSE Receptor

 

eSATA: external SATA. Your harddisk and CD ROM used to use PATA (Parallel ATA - those gray flat ribbon cables) - Serial ATA is a cable consisting of fewer strands that can get higher speeds, too. eSATA simply means you can connect an external harddisk without a penalty in speed that USB or Firewire harddisks would give you.

 

Raptor: Short for the Western Digital Raptor, a line of harddisks that focuses more on speed than on storage capacity.

 

i7 : Intel processor type, comes after the Core 2

 

Quad: Short for quad-core processor

 

PCI-e: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-Express

 

"PCI-e 1X is what I use for my 1U DSP rack" and "XITE-1 DSP rack" see: http://www.cwaudio.de/en/products/xite-1.html

 

Basically a dedicated "computer" you run plugins on that can only run on those things. Advantages are an overall higher quality and no load on the computer you use for other things. See also: http://www.tcelectronic.com/PowerCoreConcept.asp

 

Bidule : Plogue Bidule, http://www.plogue.com/

 

3GB PAE Switch : see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension . In short, it overcomes a memory limit - even if you have 4 GB internally, a 32-bits Windows version may not "see" all of it.

 

E8500 : Intel processor, dual-core.

DG45 mini ITX : Mini ITX is a form factor; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-ITX

 

SSD: Solid State Drive. Instead of rotating platters, flash memory.

 

whoosh! - the sound of that geekspeak going over my head. Anyone want to translate for us please? Is this a one rack space computer?

 

So yeah, it looks like you got the gist of it.

 

Thanks so much Yoozer!

You have saved a group of folks from hearing me vent at the next AHA (Acronym Haters Anonymous) meeting. :thu:

 

I actually knew about Receptor, and dsp hardware like Powercore....had even read something about Sonic Core somewhere (previously Creamware?) but didn't know about the mini-xti or that musicians were building their own single rack space computers with these things and... that they were powerful enough to host programs like Kontakt and other VSTIs using Bidule (in place of Windows OS?). If I understand that right, and that is what Jaime is doing, that is very cool considering the small footprint of his setup, and yet he still gets a very large diplay mounting it in the prop up mixer rack spot.

 

A single rack space computer was what I was invisioning when I posted about using an older laptop in a live setup as the front end for a networked rack computer. The advantage is not having to buy and take a powerful and expensive laptop to gig, as also stated above by Jaime.

 

Our options are still expanding, which is great news.

 

Thanks again!

Day

 

 

 

 

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

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