delirium Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I've tried new Expressive Grand on 2 different RD700GX and on both B6 flat tone was out of tune when pressed harder I heard from somebody that some pianos new fantom G have similar problems. ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Warren Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Are you saying that B6 is flat, or that Bb6 is out of tune? Is it flat or sharp? That seems like a very serious mistake for a manufacturer to make. Any chance of recording an MP3 of it? DigitalFakeBook Free chord/lyric display software for windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 Are you saying that B6 is flat, or that Bb6 is out of tune? Is it flat or sharp? Bb6 - looks like one of 3 strings is off. It was in GC and SamAsh. ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I am not able to confirm that with my GX I A - B 'd that note on other notes with my XS7 ( full concert grand), Korg M3M Stereo grand 4-Way, and of course the incredible fantasico "The Piano " on my Korg Extreme Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I tried Bb6 and it sounded okay. However, when I tried Bb5 I did notice a very slight pitch change.. but nothing really to write home about. But, y'know I have come across a bug in the RD700GX. Now and again for some reason I lose the bottom 1.5 octaves of piano sound... yet I have no splits set or anything... it has happened twice now in the last 3 weeks.. so its no biggy.. I just turn off the RD and turn it back on and all is fine in the world. BTw.. I noticed if you press VLink and switch on you get the OS number... mine is v1.03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 I tried Bb6 and it sounded okay. However, when I tried Bb5 I did notice a very slight pitch change.. but nothing really to write home about. You have to press that key forte, when pressed piano it's OK. Honestly that Expressive Ground is so uneven that I could not use it in studio at all. Almost like each tone is sampled from different piano... I thought I was too stoned initially but FP7 and CP300 which stood aside sounded perfect. ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 yeah I agree about the Expressive Grand... it s indeed all over the place tonally.. but not out of tune I don't think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I've never heard it out of tune. How sober you be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 I've never heard it out of tune. How sober you be? pretty much sober... http://www.yourdailymedia.com/i/u/afb6VH6E.jpg ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 yeah I agree about the Expressive Grand... it s indeed all over the place tonally.. but not out of tune I don't think... well, it is not completely out of tune because 2 strings are fine, only one is messing around. Anyway I'm sure that tone when pressed forte was "swinging" in pitch. ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I guess the Expressive Grand is more suited for cutting it live. It's brighter. The darker Superior Grand is perhaps better for the studio. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raddtunes Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 But, y'know I have come across a bug in the RD700GX. Now and again for some reason I lose the bottom 1.5 octaves of piano sound... yet I have no splits set or anything... it has happened twice now in the last 3 weeks.. so its no biggy.. I just turn off the RD and turn it back on and all is fine in the world. BTw.. I noticed if you press VLink and switch on you get the OS number... mine is v1.03 Hey O-funk - I may be able to solve your problem - - you lose the bottom keys when you turn that V-link button on, actually. I only have done this by mistake, but try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Sobriety is the key to appreciating the soundz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I was going to post this elsewhere but it seems a good enough place for it to go... The RD700GX's piano voices, and the Expressive Grand in particular, are very dependent on their amplification. I know that sounds an obvious thing to say, so let me elaborate... Yesterday was my first gig with the new piano - I took it out with the two JBL EON10s that I've previously used very successfully for small solo gigs with both of its predecessors, an FP-4 and a CP33. Firing up the Expressive Grand, I immediately noticed what some of its critics had pointed to in previous postings here, an almost hollow, phasey tone in its mid register (upper and lower were fine). I ended up going with the Ultimate, using the EQ to brighten up the top a little. It sounded OK, if a little limp. The Superior sounded a little overpowering at the bottom and attempts to use the EQ on it took the sound into a very artificial sphere. So I was a little disappointed, though it was still a joy to play on. This morning the unit went back to church and was reunited with the Mackie SRM450s. Firing up the out-of-the-box Expressive Grand, all was well again - a very rich, well-balanced sound all across the keyboard. The Ultimate was also lovely and bright enough out of the box. The Superior was well balanced. I could have happily played any of the three main pianos throughout the service. Of course, moving between the speakers with the other pianos, I have noticed a difference. But on neither of the other two instruments have I noticed such a huge shift in basic sound characteristic. Long term, it means I'm either again going to have to start taking the Mackies out with me (which at 55lb a pop I don't relish) or maybe take a look at something else, maybe those expensive EVs Jazz+ loves so much. Whatever I do, I definitely know I won't be buying blind. The RD-700GX is a superb piano - but the right match in amplification appears to vital. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 The RD-700GX is a superb piano - but the right match in amplification appears to vital. excuse me but what exactly is superb in such behavior? it's not like EON10 are bad speakers, aren't they? They're excellent speakers. I've never heard any other keyboard freaking out like this. Besides only Expressing Ground seams to be screwed so badly. p.s. great, now I need over thousand dollars speakers to have keyboard staying in tune... ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 The RD-700GX is a superb piano - but the right match in amplification appears to vital. excuse me but what exactly is superb in such behavior? it's not like EON10 are bad speakers, aren't they? They're excellent speakers. I've never heard any other keyboard freaking out like this. Besides only Expressing Ground seams to be screwed so badly. p.s. great, now I need over thousand dollars speakers to have keyboard staying in tune... I know you desperately try to add value to the forum One simple question; do you own the Rd7000GX ? As in, does the Rd700GX take up space in your place of residence ? Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 OK, I've just tried this out on my GX. I hear _something_ close to what you're talking about. However, I believe that what you're hearing is NOT one of the three strings of the sampled note being out of tune, but a harmonic overtone from the hammer noise caused at this velocity which is close to, but not spot on, the fundamental. I should add that this effect is only noticeable at the very top of the velocity scale, i.e. fff passages. I then played a number of heavy, concerti-like passages in this velocity and pitch range and I can't say it bothered me at all. I should also say that I detected a similar effect at F#6 in the Superior Grand voice. The Ultimate didn't seem to have that characteristic, but that's probably because the equalisation in that voice is mellower and thus the hammer noises are more muted. Of course, no piano is ever perfectly in tune. That's why we have things like stretch tuning. But the imperfections are part of what makes pianos sound so organic and involving as instruments. I never said that one HAD to buy the EVs to hear the Expressive at its best - my Mackies didn't cost that and it sounds excellent through those. It may be a speaker size issue as much as a budget one. Delirium, I'm happy to stand by my conclusion that the RD-700GX is a superb piano. Many others here think so, too - even some who have tried it and decided it wasn't for them. If you don't agree, fine - surely all you have to do is cancel your order? Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 Aidan, you're right I can cancel my order but it's not the point here. We're just discussing and analyzing keyboard here, not trying to hurt somebody's feelings about his buying decision or disqualify this board completely. We all know when you buy something you make some unconscious effort to like it. Also we have ears and ears, some can be irritated more by something then other. I can assure you I'm not the only one that have problem with Expressive Grand. Anyway glad you could hear it too. As I said in other thread, for action alone it is worthy to get RD700GX. ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Speakers make a huge difference when amplifying a Roland digital piano sound. JBL EON10s are not very good speakers for piano. I had a pair and they were unflattering when I used them for my piano. My Mackie SRM 450s were also unflattering, especially the mids. These speakers do much better for all other sounds. By the way there is some live advantage with the Superior Grand in the FP4. It seems rather tailored for live stage performance. It is less over powering because it's thinner than the Superior Grand in the RD-700SX and GX . Also, the FP4 piano is less detailed, less complex sounding. These factors can provide a good sort of "EQ" for live performance. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 +1 on that The higher the resolution of the piano sample, the more the need for quality speakers. Otherwise, it's kind of like running a HD TV signal to a basic TV. The Mackie450's are not bad ( I owned them for a while), better than the EON10's, but they won't reproduce the full details in the Roland piano sound... especially the mids. CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 guys, we're not talking about expressiveness and quality of sound but about being in tune in all dynamic range. Somehow FP7 or CP300 can do this perfectly on built in lousy speakers... ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 GregC, Aidan, orangefunk, and eric don't seem to think it's out of tune. Thus the discussion tends to go off topic. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 GregC, Aidan, orangefunk, and eric don't seem to think it's out of tune. Thus the discussion tends to go off topic. yeah right, you will deny even that earth is flat... ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraci Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 have you tried EON 15 G2? I have a pair I'm wondering if a mid range component in the eon can be upgraded to improve the detail ? The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 On the same topic, has anyone yet had experience with the Mk 2 SRM-450s? I note with interest that they're 11lb lighter than the Mk1s. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDragonSoun Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 have you tried EON 15 G2? I have a pair I'm wondering if a mid range component in the eon can be upgraded to improve the detail ? Isn't the problem the poster has with tune and not speakers like he mentioned in his post prior to yours? Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive - Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hastings Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Delirium, The Bb6 on my RD-700GX sounds like there is a slightly flat string when I pound the crap out of it. I will notify Roland first thing Tuesday. Maybe there's a software upgrade? I'll keep the piano anyway though since I DIG the action, sounds, and I rarely play that forcefully unless it's a fast passage where it would not likely be noticed. I agree that it should be addressed though. I am now on a quest for the perfect powered speakers for this baby. Any suggestions are welcome. Lightweight would be good too. Peace~ K2500s, PC88, PC3, K2661, RD700GX, B3 w/2 Leslies, Baldwin SF10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 GregC, Aidan, orangefunk, and eric don't seem to think it's out of tune. Thus the discussion tends to go off topic. yeah right, you will deny even that earth is flat... I am not denying it is out of tune, I just pointed out that there had not been a lot of confirms yet that it is a really big problem Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 Delirium, The Bb6 on my RD-700GX sounds like there is a slightly flat string when I pound the crap out of it. I will notify Roland first thing Tuesday. Maybe there's a software upgrade? I'll keep the piano anyway though since I DIG the action, sounds, and I rarely play that forcefully unless it's a fast passage where it would not likely be noticed. I agree that it should be addressed though. Smokinjazz, exactly, congratulation for your ears finally somebody can use them Don't believe though it can be fixed by software update. ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraci Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 apologies for earlier going off topic The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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