Humbling experience.....

[Fumblyfingers]

Country picking is hard!!! The whole hybrid picking thing....it feels fine slow, but fast it is almost unnatural...not to mention rough on the nails. I might have to go in and have some of that stuff put on at the nail shop....

 

I have been putting in about 8 hours a day on the Tele for the last few days and just when I seem to be getting somewhere... I listen to a fast player and wonder how the hell they do that and realize how doggoned slow I am.

 

It is like starting out all over again....having to play stuff over and over at ridiculously slow tempo's. I feel retarded...LOL!

 

I have found that analyzing these country riffs has made me realize how little I know on the guitar....there are so many cool transitions and in between stuff that I overlooked for so long while doing rock/funk/blues/fusion. It's almost like...in jazz the chords are complex and so the arpeggio's are also complex...lot's of notes to choose from.

 

In country the note choices seem perhaps fewer...so you have to play a smaller selection of notes more often...at breakneck pace sometimes...there seems to be a lot of backpicking and string skips and as for the whole double and triple stops thing........I mean you might be soloing over an A triad for a whole bunch of bars.....you have to say something but not go outside...Pentatonic with a few extra notes thrown in or something....that to me is harder than a jazz passage with like 10 big chords or whatever.

 

I can see why so many good country players are good jazzers as well.

 

I am fully humbled right now...call me "humblyfingers" if you will...this country shite is hard....I am struggling with it.....but I am determined to learn something...anything

[sauerjay]

I was watching some country licks on youtube from some guy, Forrest Lee Jr. sounds like a lot of legato is used, although I could be wrong.

 

 

Anyways, I haven't been playing long so words of encouragement is all I can give. It just goes to show that you can spend years, even decades learning the guitar and still feel new to the instrument. Keep at it Fumbly, or I guess, humbly. We'd all like to hear something once you get the hang of it.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

When Grunge and Nirvana started to take over in the early 90s, I really got into the New Country thing and take notice of studio guys like Brent Mason, Dann Huff (also played in the great Rock band, Giant) and veterans like Albert Lee. Albert's videos and books are great. It really made playing fun again.

 

Also, Steve Trovato (teaches at USC), is another mofo Country picker....his Hotlicks video I wore out. Saw him give a seminar at the Carvin store a few years back.

 

Those guys, and the Bluegrass cats, can REALLY play guitar. A lot more impressive than Yngwie fer sure, dood.

[Trucks]

8 hours a day? It must be a real drag not having to go to work in between practice sessions

 

Ya see dude, I think we might be a little similar when it comes to learning... Have a bit of the ol ADD to deeal with... So I know how hard it is to focus on something specifically!

 

Keep at it mate, you can do it... You know you can.

 

Stop worrying about feeling retarded because it doesnt come as first nature and deal with it :-) If I let it get me down i'd be depressed the whole damn time! And where is the fun.. and more importantly the SATISFACTION in learning something that comes easy.

 

Un-learning to play one way is going to be more difficult than learning it that way in the first place.

 

Also if you cut your nails as normal, you will soon have calluses on your picking fingers... No need for nail goop.

[picker]

Just keep at it, and you'll get it. That's the only secret I know.

[Gifthorse]

I love that style of playing like Albert Lee or Brad Paisley. That one guy I posted about last week Jeff Miller is great at that style. If he lived near me I would take a lesson. There are a few players like that around here that rock.

 

I have been practicing about 2 hours a day on jazz standards. I am having similar problems. I mean I am learning a few chord solos and GOD is it demanding both physically and mentally.

 

If you want to see 'demanding' just watch Paul Dil's first video on his Myspace.. That makes my left hand tired just thinking of it.

[fantasticsound]

I really need to start practicing again in earnest. I'm embarrassed to even post here in light of what some of you are doing.

 

(And to be honest, Lister, I don't know I have the ambition and persistence even if I were in your work (lack of) situation to practice that much. Wish it were so but... Good for you! )

[MILLO]

I can see why so many good country players are good jazzers as well.

 

I am fully humbled right now...call me "humblyfingers" if you will...this country shite is hard....I am struggling with it.....but I am determined to learn something...anything

YEAH! It makes TOTAL sense, b/c they're usually playing w/ harmonic direction in mind, more so than rock, blues players. I plan to practice a bit of this next week, along w/ many other things (that's why I said only "a bit").

 

Sometimes I play stuff that people say sound like a country. Basically take pentatonic scales w/ some passing tones (the typical blue-note among them) and arpeggio-based ideas in tonal progressions. Not a "schooled" thing, but sounds I've literally come up with while in lessons. I don't have the techniques down, though, but it seems I'm getting close to "get" some of their "pitch material"... that's just the start. It helps to have two smoking country players in the lesson rooms beside me, although most of the time they're teaching pop and rock stuff. Every once in a while I hear a cool country lick, and pick up a few things from them. This is the owner of the school I teach at:

 

 

It's been literally years since I've practiced for that long. LAs t time I practiced for 9 hours I lifted an amp the wrong way, bent the left wrist and screwed more while doing the dishes afterwards, LOL! I stopped playing for 3 months. I finally have 2 WEEKS free for a winter break, I plan put in about 5-8 hrs of playing time, plus more of "musical or recording study" and preparing materials for lessons, coaching sessions and a festival we're putting together.

[Bejeeber]

(edit: nevermind. )

[Fumblyfingers]

Yes I am practicing my a$$ off right now. I am seeing a difference but man those very definite, precise fast country licks demand such accuracy....and almost they are dependent on picking style....I know I can do it flatpicking but something seems lost a bit in that.....I dunno...the hybrid picking is so unusual for me...that will take sometime.

 

Brent Mason's album Smokin' Section is really very good....kinda mellow, some very nice jazz and some slow ballad standard type material....but LOT'S of brilliant guitar playing and good tones.

 

Yeah Millo, you nailed it.

 

Chris Standring said to me in an e mail regarding jazz study in relation to my current ability....it's all about vocabulary. One builds a large jazz vocabulary and you draw from it when improvising.

 

It's the same with the Country stuff. I need to learn ton's and ton's of licks and play them over and over. Rock is much easier I think...blues is it's own thing less about notes and more about feel but certainly with certain "rules" and typical licks.

[D. Fox]

I never got into Mason and Paisley much, but listening to guys like Roy Nichols, Don Rich, and Phil Baugh, I learned that your bends can NEVER be lazy, lay off the "big blues" vibrato, and play on top of the beat.

[Boggs]

Did you guys happen to catch Albert Lee on the Crossroads concert video? The man is WHACKED (but in a good way!)!!!!!!!

[Fumblyfingers]

What Crossroads Concert video? The Clapton one...? I didn't know he was on there......you are not thinking about Vince Gill are you....? I gotta go dig that out now and check.

 

D. Fox...I never even heard of those guys....I'll go check them out.

[Zuben]

Lister

 

"Chicken Picken", Country picken has more to do with your right hand. You have the speed and touch on your left hand (you are right handed?)to handle the neck.

 

I have a couple of DVDs that are pretty good on country picking. It may take awhile to dig them up. After Christmas, I go in to finish my spinal stim trials and surgery. I have been told this one is pretty delicate. That is why they take months to approve you for this surgery.

 

If it works, I may be human again!

 

Peace

[Fumblyfingers]

Yeah I am seeing that Zubes...I can learn the notes of the lick and play them almost as fast as the example but it just does not sound right flatpicking it...it lacks something....oh Lord.....you know how long it is going to take to get really good at hybrid picking?

 

I mean...maybe it is just the approach and attack I have to change about my flatpicking style....I see some guys do flatpick country.....but I'm thinkin' I gotta give this hybrid deal a chance.

 

How many of you guys hybrid pick?

[BrianWren]

Did you guys happen to catch Albert Lee on the Crossroads concert video? The man is WHACKED (but in a good way!)!!!!!!!

I found it really interesting that the intensity with which he played his seemed to abate some when improvising with Eric. Makes me think that the hyper-light speed has been worked out in advance...

 

I noticed the same thing on the G3 with Vai/Johnson/Satriani. Vai sounded at times like he lacked a plan.

 

Doesn't detract from these masters virtuosity, it only makes it clear that they are good at what they are good at, but they still would not be able to walk on water without Gods help.

 

And in keeping with the initiation of this thread: I practice as much as I can; I was going to 4 open-mics a week for a whlie, and practicing at home on the other nights. Now, occasionally, I play something without planning it in advancea fast lick, a tasty phrase, a mood colorand am surprised at what I have absorbed.

 

None of us will ever be where we would like to be, but most of us are getting to places that it is good to be at.

[BrianWren]

What Crossroads Concert video? The Clapton one...? I didn't know he was on there......you are not thinking about Vince Gill are you....? I gotta go dig that out now and check.

 

D. Fox...I never even heard of those guys....I'll go check them out.

The Crossroads 2007. It has both Vince Gill and Albert Leeand Jeff Beck!

.

[mdrs]

Yeah I am seeing that Zubes...I can learn the notes of the lick and play them almost as fast as the example but it just does not sound right flatpicking it...it lacks something....oh Lord.....you know how long it is going to take to get really good at hybrid picking?

 

I mean...maybe it is just the approach and attack I have to change about my flatpicking style....I see some guys do flatpick country.....but I'm thinkin' I gotta give this hybrid deal a chance.

 

How many of you guys hybrid pick?

 

I think I hybrid pick. I often use my last 3 fingers directly on the strings.

 

I'm pretty sure that Steve Howe hybrid picks, but in a way I can't really duplicate!!

 

Country and Bluegrass pickers, IMO are typically head and shoulders above most other generas.

 

I'm not anywhere near your level, Lister. But, I have put a couple of country multi string bends with hybrid picking into my rock/blues arsnal. And, I have a couple of country hot licks DVDs awaiting my attention, in order to add more.

 

In another week or two, we'll have to meet at my friends log cabin, and play some country pickin. I'll bring the Moonshine!!

[Fumblyfingers]

The Crossroads 2007. It has both Vince Gill and Albert Leeand Jeff Beck!

 

Ah that's rad...I did not know about it....I will be putting one of those in the stocking stuffer for myself yes sireee Bob....er Brian...

[Fumblyfingers]

In another week or two, we'll have to meet at my friends log cabin, and play some country pickin. I'll bring the Moonshine!!

 

Hell yeah, you can show me those licks..!!

 

This has become a big challenge for me...I have always had an umption to learn to play like that!

 

The ADD is makin' it tough!!

 

It's not something you can partake of and be lazy about.

 

Maybe when I was still a spring chicken I could remember all the chicken pickin' without takin' a lickin' if I let a day or two go by without springin' to slingin'. I mean!!

 

But anymore if I let more than an hour go by, I just lost damn near three licks from my upstairs memory bank....it's like I got a leak in there or somethin'.

 

 

[Trucks]

Well put a big bowl under the leak, and send it my way once it's full! :-)

[Dr. Ellwood]

I studied Chet Atkins, Marty Stewart and Merle Travis, for along time, I Travis pick. Sometimes depending on what song it is I will use a flat pick,thumb pick or no pick.

[MILLO]

When Grunge and Nirvana started to take over in the early 90s, I really got into the New Country thing and take notice of studio guys like Brent Mason, Dann Huff (also played in the great Rock band, Giant) and veterans like Albert Lee. Albert's videos and books are great. It really made playing fun again.

 

Also, Steve Trovato (teaches at USC), is another mofo Country picker....his Hotlicks video I wore out. Saw him give a seminar at the Carvin store a few years back.

 

Those guys, and the Bluegrass cats, can REALLY play guitar. A lot more impressive than Yngwie fer sure, dood.

thanks for the recommendations on the vids

 

maybe this one is good, too...

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GRUVUQ/ref=s9_asin_title_3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=02Z61RS920YJNW93NN0G&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=320448601&pf_rd_i=507846

[Fumblyfingers]

I have been wondering why I am getting so fatigued doing this but I see it now.

 

The picking hand fingertips need to build callouses. I should go play bass for a while LOL.

 

Snapping the strings requires different hand movement to what I am used to as a flatpicker.....getting under the string and plucking upwards so the string gets "snapped" requires a different strength in the picking hand. I only ever used to do that occasionally....all the time is different LOL.

 

Plus, I never realized how much these kinds of pull-off's with the fretting hand will tire one out. Mostly in my old style when I pulled off it was smoother, but mostly I pick every note. This chicken picken deal you have to really "sound" the note when you pull off sometimes so it is at close to the same volume as the pick picked note....does that make sense?

 

A lot of work ahead.

 

Lee is Travis picking what hybrid picking is.....thumb and first finger hold the pick and then also fingerpick with the 2nd and 3rd fingers?

[mdrs]

No pick used in Travis picking. It's fingerstyle only;

 

 

I can do several styles of fingerstyle picking, but don't know what they are called!! Sorry!!

[Trucks]

Have you tried a thumbpick?

[GuitarPlayerFL]

thanks for the recommendations on the vids

 

maybe this one is good, too...

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GRUVUQ/ref=s9_asin_title_3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=02Z61RS920YJNW93NN0G&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=320448601&pf_rd_i=507846

 

I meant to mention Johnny Hiland, too. This DVD you're linking to is available from Netflix to view if you have Netflix.

 

I love that stuff!

[GuitarPlayerFL]

How many of you guys hybrid pick?

 

I have when the occasion calls for it. I took Jazz lessons from the guy in the link below for a few years so I got used to using all of my right hand fingers to pick the strings individually for chord melody style things.

 

And when I was trying to learn Steve Howe's The Clap, you pretty much had to play hybrid. It still took practice and I could never get it as fast and fluid as Steve played it....in fact, not fast at all.

 

BTW, I never leaned the song properly...I guess I'll have to go back and learn it correctly!

[Fumblyfingers]

The great thing about working at this is how my mind is opening up musically...I am getting so many idea's for jazz improvising from it. I am practicing like a fiend...I take the guitar even when I take my daughter to gymnastics and her Kumon learning so the 2 and 1/2 hours I sit and wait I just play.

 

Just having the guitar in hand like that is going to get the idea's flowing.

 

I can't wait to record something. I have been wanting to do Charlie Parker's Donna Lee as I have a backing track for that. I have not done it yet because it is so fast and hard and I was not up to it....the song is sort of a benchmark for me for where I am at.

 

I am getting closer...LOL.

 

I am progressing very slowly as far as the hybrid stuff......I might not focus too much on that...I suppose I am a flatpicker and that's that....I won't give up on it...just not stress on it too much.

[mdrs]

Have you tried a thumbpick?

 

I have tried a thumbpick, years ago. I could never seem to get comfortable with it, nor with finger picks. I like to feel the strings with my fingertips...With finger/thumb picks I couldn't tell where the strings were, and seemed to strike the strings poorly. Maybe I just needed to practice with the picks more??? I like to fee the strings, and I think I can be more expressive with my finger tips, although I know I'm not as loud as I would be with picks.